Bitcoin classified as a currency. No VAT for BTC also in Switzerland. - page 2.

RKing

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Quote from: zodiac3011 on November 05, 2015, 12:29:35 AM

Quote from: User705 on November 04, 2015, 04:54:40 PM

Quote from: zodiac3011 on November 03, 2015, 10:30:54 AM

Bitcoin is made to be a currency so why the hell does the government even have tax on it? It's not some kinds of product. It's money and the countries which abolish VAT for BTC are the ones which are not high right now

Because all governments currently tax own currency through inflation/money printing. They might eventually want to do the same to bitcoin. The only question is how and if it will succeed.

Putting tax on their own currency is quite easy but on a digital currency with non-government control? That's quite challenging

It is tax on the earnings, not the currency. If you are paid bitcoin by your employer, your employer will pay some money to the government as tax.

bitart

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Quote from: zodiac3011 on November 07, 2015, 12:32:22 AM

Quote from: bitart on November 06, 2015, 03:36:16 PM

Quote from: zodiac3011 on November 05, 2015, 12:29:35 AM

Quote from: User705 on November 04, 2015, 04:54:40 PM

Quote from: zodiac3011 on November 03, 2015, 10:30:54 AM

Bitcoin is made to be a currency so why the hell does the government even have tax on it? It's not some kinds of product. It's money and the countries which abolish VAT for BTC are the ones which are not high right now

Because all governments currently tax own currency through inflation/money printing. They might eventually want to do the same to bitcoin. The only question is how and if it will succeed.

Putting tax on their own currency is quite easy but on a digital currency with non-government control? That's quite challenging

VAT can be applied for BTC transactions if it will be widely accepted at merchants. If you buy something you get an invoice (you need the invoice in some cases for warranty or whatever). If the merchant gives you the invoice it contains VAT. The merchant should pay the VAT to the government despite of the transaction's currency ( normal or digital), because the payment is income for him. It's the control that can not be applied to BTC because of the decentralized structure of it.

VAT tax will push the price up and noone will buy it at all. Furthermore, The government will have difficulties managing services because they can sell their stuff, services without adding the VAT tax. Not really hard to avoid that VAT

In case you buy something P2P, it's OK that you have a chance to avoid VAT, but if you want to use Bitcoin in shops in town, there you can't avoid VAT so it can be an opportunity while you are only on the web, but if acceptance rises there will be a lot merchant that can't avoid issuing an invoice that contains VAT. So we want to increase the acceptance of BTC but it will bring some disadvantages also.

zodiac3011

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Quote from: bitart on November 06, 2015, 03:36:16 PM

Quote from: zodiac3011 on November 05, 2015, 12:29:35 AM

Quote from: User705 on November 04, 2015, 04:54:40 PM

Quote from: zodiac3011 on November 03, 2015, 10:30:54 AM

Bitcoin is made to be a currency so why the hell does the government even have tax on it? It's not some kinds of product. It's money and the countries which abolish VAT for BTC are the ones which are not high right now

Because all governments currently tax own currency through inflation/money printing. They might eventually want to do the same to bitcoin. The only question is how and if it will succeed.

Putting tax on their own currency is quite easy but on a digital currency with non-government control? That's quite challenging

VAT can be applied for BTC transactions if it will be widely accepted at merchants. If you buy something you get an invoice (you need the invoice in some cases for warranty or whatever). If the merchant gives you the invoice it contains VAT. The merchant should pay the VAT to the government despite of the transaction's currency ( normal or digital), because the payment is income for him. It's the control that can not be applied to BTC because of the decentralized structure of it.

VAT tax will push the price up and noone will buy it at all. Furthermore, The government will have difficulties managing services because they can sell their stuff, services without adding the VAT tax. Not really hard to avoid that VAT

Slark

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Quote from: zodiac3011 on November 05, 2015, 12:29:35 AM

Quote from: User705 on November 04, 2015, 04:54:40 PM

Quote from: zodiac3011 on November 03, 2015, 10:30:54 AM

Bitcoin is made to be a currency so why the hell does the government even have tax on it? It's not some kinds of product. It's money and the countries which abolish VAT for BTC are the ones which are not high right now

Because all governments currently tax own currency through inflation/money printing. They might eventually want to do the same to bitcoin. The only question is how and if it will succeed.

Putting tax on their own currency is quite easy but on a digital currency with non-government control? That's quite challenging

It is impossible to do with direct p2p Bitcoin trading of course. But government won't attempt that. Instead they will tax transaction of services - every exchange, service and shop will be taxed.
This is easily doable solution for fast bitcoin taxing. I would't be surprised to see something like that introduced in the future.

bitart

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Quote from: zodiac3011 on November 05, 2015, 12:29:35 AM

Quote from: User705 on November 04, 2015, 04:54:40 PM

Quote from: zodiac3011 on November 03, 2015, 10:30:54 AM

Bitcoin is made to be a currency so why the hell does the government even have tax on it? It's not some kinds of product. It's money and the countries which abolish VAT for BTC are the ones which are not high right now

Because all governments currently tax own currency through inflation/money printing. They might eventually want to do the same to bitcoin. The only question is how and if it will succeed.

Putting tax on their own currency is quite easy but on a digital currency with non-government control? That's quite challenging

VAT can be applied for BTC transactions if it will be widely accepted at merchants. If you buy something you get an invoice (you need the invoice in some cases for warranty or whatever). If the merchant gives you the invoice it contains VAT. The merchant should pay the VAT to the government despite of the transaction's currency ( normal or digital), because the payment is income for him. It's the control that can not be applied to BTC because of the decentralized structure of it.

zodiac3011

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Quote from: User705 on November 04, 2015, 04:54:40 PM

Quote from: zodiac3011 on November 03, 2015, 10:30:54 AM

Bitcoin is made to be a currency so why the hell does the government even have tax on it? It's not some kinds of product. It's money and the countries which abolish VAT for BTC are the ones which are not high right now

Because all governments currently tax own currency through inflation/money printing. They might eventually want to do the same to bitcoin. The only question is how and if it will succeed.

Putting tax on their own currency is quite easy but on a digital currency with non-government control? That's quite challenging

User705

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Quote from: zodiac3011 on November 03, 2015, 10:30:54 AM

Bitcoin is made to be a currency so why the hell does the government even have tax on it? It's not some kinds of product. It's money and the countries which abolish VAT for BTC are the ones which are not high right now

Because all governments currently tax own currency through inflation/money printing. They might eventually want to do the same to bitcoin. The only question is how and if it will succeed.

bitart

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Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on November 03, 2015, 09:34:07 AM

Quote from: countryfree on June 17, 2015, 02:03:39 PM

Frankly, this isn't a surprise. There's no VAT issue with BTC, the real issue is tax on capital, but then it would be tricky to enforce. Unless you're an early miner selling a large quantity of BTC, the average BTC to cash transaction will go unnoticed.

What if you sell very slowly? Like every month you sell 200 dollars worth of Bitcoin. Would those miners still end up getting caught by IRS or whatever the Europeans have over there? I think this is the case because at the end of the day, fiat transactions stay logged within the banking system. They will eventually ask were is all this monthly money coming from I assume.

I'm wondering that as you said that fiat transactions are logged. But do you need to sell your BTC to use it for daily expenses?
I'm using a debit card attached to my wallet. I can spend my BTCs directly from the wallet, in all the places where the merchants accept VISA cards. Is the BTC card provider companies also log the BTC transactions or does they share the information to authorities if they are asked officially? Which country's law is applicable for them?

zodiac3011

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Bitcoin is made to be a currency so why the hell does the government even have tax on it? It's not some kinds of product. It's money and the countries which abolish VAT for BTC are the ones which are not high right now

AtheistAKASaneBrain

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Quote from: countryfree on June 17, 2015, 02:03:39 PM

Frankly, this isn't a surprise. There's no VAT issue with BTC, the real issue is tax on capital, but then it would be tricky to enforce. Unless you're an early miner selling a large quantity of BTC, the average BTC to cash transaction will go unnoticed.

What if you sell very slowly? Like every month you sell 200 dollars worth of Bitcoin. Would those miners still end up getting caught by IRS or whatever the Europeans have over there? I think this is the case because at the end of the day, fiat transactions stay logged within the banking system. They will eventually ask were is all this monthly money coming from I assume.

makcik

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Bitcoin's effectiveness and simplicity is now getting famous and popular. Also, many countries are now changing towards getting cashless and here's an initiative by Switzerland government which will stand a huge step in bitcoins evolution. They have removed any VAT on using bitcoins in their country. This will definitely give a boost to the usage of bitcoins in Switzerland and hopefully other countries may even learn from this step and bitcoins may get progressed in other countries too..

gentlemand

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How many countries have imposed vat? I'm aware of Australia and have a vague feeling about Norway. Seems like a batty move that may well be rescinded anyway.

OROBTC

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Quote from: countryfree on June 17, 2015, 02:03:39 PM

Frankly, this isn't a surprise. There's no VAT issue with BTC, the real issue is tax on capital, but then it would be tricky to enforce. Unless you're an early miner selling a large quantity of BTC, the average BTC to cash transaction will go unnoticed.

But, it's a good surprise! And, yes, it would be hard to tax BTC as capital.

bryant.coleman wrote above that we just need ONE country to have free laws re Bitcoin. Likely, he's right, but I would prefer more than one (so that there are one or more close at hand).

Another related issue is how easy (or not) it is to BUY Bitcoin in Switzerland. If it's easy, I might take a small detour there on our next trip to Italy...

bitart

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Yes if the the company that runs the online exchange web page is localized in Switzerland, because in this case the Swiss law is applicable to it. In this meaning you buy the bitcoin from an exchange in Switzerland.
If you asked that you can buy bitcoin phisically at local exchanges in switzerland like you give them e.g. EUR and they give you bitcoin notes or coins, it's not the case.

Sir_lagsalot

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So... You can buy bitcoin from exchanges in Switzerland?

bitart

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Switzerland was always independent, even in the world wars. This is why money likes Switzerland, but since the major countries agreed to share the details of the secret bank accounts, it's shine had fade a bit.
But if Switzerland likes Bitcoin, I'm really happy and looking forward for it's positive effects

n2004al

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Quote from: jurij.timofejev on June 15, 2015, 03:56:57 AM

''The United Kingdom, Germany, France, Belgium, Finland, and most recently, Spain have all classified digital currency transactions as exempt from VAT.''

“Treating Bitcoin payments just like any other payment option is a huge milestone for the Swiss Bitcoin economy, and enriches the global digital money ecosystem.”

Read more: http://bravenewcoin.com/news/switzerland-reportedly-eliminates-vat-for-bitcoin-transactions/

Very good news. Swiss is the motherland of the money. If this country will be friendly with bitcoin (as it is verified) this is a big help for bitcoin itself. Because the example of Swiss will be followed by other countries. Those will act faster toward the regulatory environment of bitcoin like the case in which the Swiss could has been hostile versus it.

countryfree

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Frankly, this isn't a surprise. There's no VAT issue with BTC, the real issue is tax on capital, but then it would be tricky to enforce. Unless you're an early miner selling a large quantity of BTC, the average BTC to cash transaction will go unnoticed.

jayce

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Quote from: Outlander on June 17, 2015, 03:33:17 AM

Quote from: jayce on June 16, 2015, 11:36:22 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 15, 2015, 05:14:06 AM

Quote from: randy8777 on June 15, 2015, 04:49:09 AM

There will be countries attacking bitcoin by not allowing it.

It doesn't matter. We need just one country, which allows Bitcoin. And Switzerland, as of now, seems to be the best candidate among the UN member nations. And remember that Bitcoin is a currency, which can't be banned by the governments. If the government wants to ban bitcoin, it has to ban the internet also. Is this possible?

I think there are other ways by government to ban bitcoin than ban internet, like closed the shop online that accept bitcoin, state bitcoin is terrorist transaction stuff so the society won't accept bitcoin, and make a law about bitcoin so it can't be used freely. But, for now government don't have any reason to do that.

Even Russion gov banned bitcoin before and they now abolish their none sense policy! As the increasing number of ppl are adopting bitcoin, gov becomes more friendly to it. We know that bitcion industry has much potential and probably bring them many jobs!

The government won't recognize bitcoin if they can't get profit or something profitable from that even its have potential in futures. The industry just add the payment system with bitcoin, so I'm not sure it can make many new jobs. Otherwise, I think bitcoin can reduce human job because of it's practice and easiness by online system.

Q7

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And that is something considered good news. I don't why or how in any way they could impose vat since you don't register the transaction in the ledger. When you exempt vat, generally you are moving away from the conventional banking system that we are having right now and further distancing bitcoin into having its own payment niche. The plus point here is that it will be regarded as a currency.

Topic: Bitcoin classified as a currency. No VAT for BTC also in Switzerland. - page 2. (Read 3500 times)