Bitcoin community are in support of BRC20

Abiky

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on December 19, 2023, 04:11:56 PM

Well, the sooner we stop beating about the Bush, the better for us, the truth is that, a lot of bitcoin people are actually excited about this projects, as long as they get to money, that's all they are after.

As painful or disappointing as this may seem, the truth remains that, not very many care much about the health and well-being of the bitcoin network, they care not whether the fees are off the roof, all they care for is to make money, and they do not care what or who gets affected by their actions.

I have a bitcoin payment I am supposed to have sent since 3 days ago, but can't because the high fees, as I just can't get myself to agreeing to pay a fee of $15 to $20 just to send $50 worth of bitcoins to another wallet.

This thing is really painful and annoying at the same time.

If the community doesn't do anything about the fees, mainstream adoption for BTC will decline at a very fast pace. Average people will just switch to another cryptocurrency with lower network congestion (cheaper and faster to use). With the halving underway, things will only get worse. There's no denying that miners are cashing out big time with the Ordinals craze. They don't care if users have to pay high fees, as long as their pockets are filled with money.

Maybe developers will find a way to lower fees without blocking/filtering Ordinals inscriptions? I'd say Bitcoin already entered uncharted territory. We can't predict what will happen in the long run, so lets hope for the best. Just my opinion

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on December 19, 2023, 04:21:45 PM

Simply pumping by traders and the market-making team. When a token gets listed on an exchange, there are traders and market makers as well. Whales will also work to pump a token price; this is called call manipulation. There is a lot of syndicate work behind a token when it pumps without marketing or without community. But sometimes emotions would pump as well. Each exchange has a trading community that creates volume there. Sometimes they start focusing on a token, and that's how they start pumping as well. But we don't know the true reason, actually.

I tend to agree with your assumption - but I don't think this is an absolute endorsement of BRC20. The average trader takes advantage of this moment to make a profit - once they get what they want, they can move on to other, more profitable projects. BRC20 is considered bad because of its impact on mempool resulting in high bitcoin transaction fees - but either way, sensors are not the best solution.

TrustedBitcoiner

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on December 19, 2023, 04:45:59 PM

Quote from: TrustedBitcoiner on December 19, 2023, 04:20:05 PM

Quote from: BITCOIN4X on December 19, 2023, 04:02:00 PM

~Snip
I would state the same thing as some other users, the minority will be against it and the majority will be neutral as long as they gain benefits due to Ordinal. Just like you, I'm not against it although I really hope bitcoin transaction fees return to normal like that. Nowadays 1 sat/vByte is just a dream that is hard to come true for bitcoin transaction fees, but in the past 1 sat/vByte was real.

I really hope TX fees never return to 1sat/b, it's imperative that they don't, with the halving coming up it's really nice to see TX fee up ofc it would be nice to see them go up purely because of large legit TX, but still…

Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on December 19, 2023, 04:11:56 PM

~Snip
I have a bitcoin payment I am supposed to have sent since 3 days ago, but can't because the high fees, as I just can't get myself to agreeing to pay a fee of $15 to $20 just to send $50 worth of bitcoins to another wallet.

This thing is really painful and annoying at the same time.

get use to it, its not going away.

Maybe you are one of the bitcoin miners benefiting from the high fees, but trust me, this is actually not very good for bitcoin and it's adoption..

We all anticipate a time when we walk into restaurants, supermarkets, and other business hubs, pick a few things or make a few transactions and settle the bills in bitcoin easily, but then, with the fees this high, that cant be possible as it makes no sense to spend $10 or more in fees for an items purchased at $5 worth of bitcoins.

Except everyone are going to switch to lightning network, or we all give up the idea of bitcoin being a means of payment for goods and services, and simply focus on it being a store of value.

you got it Layer2 will let you do buy your day to day stuff... but as for Layer1 everyone fully expects 10-30$ fees for each transaction, we nned many large value transactions on L1 willing to pay these fees in order for the networks security to be maintained. unless ofc block space is allowed to grow a little inwhich case L1 fee could be like 1-5$.

I also agree with you that btc doesn't necessarily Need to prove itself as a micropayment-system inorder to be considered successful, permissionless store of value is enough. However you can’t have a rock solid store of value without strong mining incentive to secure the network, and with the block subsidy eventually becoming nothing, it's very important that fees remain high.

Fivestar4everMVP

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Quote from: TrustedBitcoiner on December 19, 2023, 04:20:05 PM

Quote from: BITCOIN4X on December 19, 2023, 04:02:00 PM

~Snip
I would state the same thing as some other users, the minority will be against it and the majority will be neutral as long as they gain benefits due to Ordinal. Just like you, I'm not against it although I really hope bitcoin transaction fees return to normal like that. Nowadays 1 sat/vByte is just a dream that is hard to come true for bitcoin transaction fees, but in the past 1 sat/vByte was real.

I really hope TX fees never return to 1sat/b, it's imperative that they don't, with the halving coming up it's really nice to see TX fee up ofc it would be nice to see them go up purely because of large legit TX, but still…

Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on December 19, 2023, 04:11:56 PM

~Snip
I have a bitcoin payment I am supposed to have sent since 3 days ago, but can't because the high fees, as I just can't get myself to agreeing to pay a fee of $15 to $20 just to send $50 worth of bitcoins to another wallet.

This thing is really painful and annoying at the same time.

get use to it, its not going away.

Maybe you are one of the bitcoin miners benefiting from the high fees, but trust me, this is actually not very good for bitcoin and it's adoption..

We all anticipate a time when we walk into restaurants, supermarkets, and other business hubs, pick a few things or make a few transactions and settle the bills in bitcoin easily, but then, with the fees this high, that cant be possible as it makes no sense to spend $10 or more in fees for an items purchased at $5 worth of bitcoins.

Except everyone are going to switch to lightning network, or we all give up the idea of bitcoin being a means of payment for goods and services, and simply focus on it being a store of value.

Marvelman

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I think new people who aren't familiar with stuff like this could pretty easily get tricked into these schemes. But I agree that just like ICOs turned out to be a passing trend, the same thing's gonna happen with these Ordinals NFT things. We just gotta be patient - they can't keep hyping this stuff up forever. The fees to do stuff on the Bitcoin blockchain will have to come down eventually, and this too shall pass. All we can really do is wait for sanity to return to the market.

The Cryptovator

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Simply pumping by traders and the market-making team. When a token gets listed on an exchange, there are traders and market makers as well. Whales will also work to pump a token price; this is called call manipulation. There is a lot of syndicate work behind a token when it pumps without marketing or without community. But sometimes emotions would pump as well. Each exchange has a trading community that creates volume there. Sometimes they start focusing on a token, and that's how they start pumping as well. But we don't know the true reason, actually.

TrustedBitcoiner

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Quote from: BITCOIN4X on December 19, 2023, 04:02:00 PM

~Snip
I would state the same thing as some other users, the minority will be against it and the majority will be neutral as long as they gain benefits due to Ordinal. Just like you, I'm not against it although I really hope bitcoin transaction fees return to normal like that. Nowadays 1 sat/vByte is just a dream that is hard to come true for bitcoin transaction fees, but in the past 1 sat/vByte was real.

I really hope TX fees never return to 1sat/b, it's imperative that they don't, with the halving coming up it's really nice to see TX fee up ofc it would be nice to see them go up purely because of large legit TX, but still…

Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on December 19, 2023, 04:11:56 PM

~Snip
I have a bitcoin payment I am supposed to have sent since 3 days ago, but can't because the high fees, as I just can't get myself to agreeing to pay a fee of $15 to $20 just to send $50 worth of bitcoins to another wallet.

This thing is really painful and annoying at the same time.

get use to it, its not going away.

Fivestar4everMVP

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Quote from: Oshosondy on December 15, 2023, 03:43:43 AM

Who are pumping them? I do not want to believe it is not bitcoin people.

Well, the sooner we stop beating about the Bush, the better for us, the truth is that, a lot of bitcoin people are actually excited about this projects, as long as they get to money, that's all they are after.

As painful or disappointing as this may seem, the truth remains that, not very many care much about the health and well-being of the bitcoin network, they care not whether the fees are off the roof, all they care for is to make money, and they do not care what or who gets affected by their actions.

I have a bitcoin payment I am supposed to have sent since 3 days ago, but can't because the high fees, as I just can't get myself to agreeing to pay a fee of $15 to $20 just to send $50 worth of bitcoins to another wallet.

This thing is really painful and annoying at the same time.

BITCOIN4X

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Quote from: Abiky on December 19, 2023, 03:49:31 PM

Quote from: MusaMohamed on December 17, 2023, 09:52:53 PM

~Snip

Exactly. You can see how the hype slowly fades away as people move on to the next big thing in crypto. These Ordinals NFTs are nothing more than pure speculation. What real use cases do they have? Nothing.

With due time, fees on the BTC blockchain will decline as speculators and/or whales move on to other chains that are faster and cheaper to use. As much as I don't like Ordinals, I wouldn't recommend blocking/filtering them because that would make Bitcoin prone to censorship. The future can't be predicted, so lets hope for the best. Grin

I would state the same thing as some other users, the minority will be against it and the majority will be neutral as long as they gain benefits due to Ordinal. Just like you, I'm not against it although I really hope bitcoin transaction fees return to normal like that. Nowadays 1 sat/vByte is just a dream that is hard to come true for bitcoin transaction fees, but in the past 1 sat/vByte was real.

Abiky

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Quote from: MusaMohamed on December 17, 2023, 09:52:53 PM

The wave of massive ICOs on Ethereum blockchain in 2017 and the hot game CryptoKitties in that year caused very serious congestion on Ethereum blockchain but it finally cleared.

The Inside Story of the CryptoKitties Congestion Crisis

The DeFi, NFT, GameFi waves in 2021 caused congestion on Ethereum blockchain too but again finally it cleared.

Ethereum network congested in 2021 because of dApps.

Bitcoin blockchain had problems with mempools, high demands and expensive transaction fees many times but finally it cleared.
https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#BTC%20(default%20mempool),all,weight

I agree that the Bitcoin blockchain must be permissionless and censorship-resistant but I also see if there is no solution for Ordinals, problems in mempools will become worse and worse before Ordinals die for good.

Exactly. You can see how the hype slowly fades away as people move on to the next big thing in crypto. These Ordinals NFTs are nothing more than pure speculation. What real use cases do they have? Nothing.

With due time, fees on the BTC blockchain will decline as speculators and/or whales move on to other chains that are faster and cheaper to use. As much as I don't like Ordinals, I wouldn't recommend blocking/filtering them because that would make Bitcoin prone to censorship. The future can't be predicted, so lets hope for the best. Grin

Bitcoin_people

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Quote from: Oshosondy on December 15, 2023, 03:43:43 AM

Can you see the mempool? Very congested.

Who are the ones pumping SATS and RATS? I can see CATS on Polonix pumped 400% today. Probably they will bounce on it to pump it more.

You know the funniest thing? No presale, no social media, no advertisement for these tokens.

SATS pumped almost 10 times in 2 weeks. Having over $1.75 billion now in marketcap.
RATS almost pumped 30 times in 3 or 4 weeks
CATS pumped 4 times today.

Who are pumping them? I do not want to believe it is not bitcoin people.

Since the BRC20 few coins have been listed on the market, a lot of hero has accumulated in them. Investors are so pressured to buy that ORDI, SATS, DOVI, RATS etc are investing heavily in these coins. Since last few days these markets have high volume and lots of people investing here due to which the price of these coins has increased rapidly. According to the current congestion of these coins, we may see it at higher levels in the future. We have seen its price increase rapidly since its listing on the ORDI exchange along with Bitcoin and the future of these coins could be even brighter.

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Quote from: Oshosondy on December 15, 2023, 03:43:43 AM

SATS pumped almost 10 times in 2 weeks. Having over $1.75 billion now in marketcap.
RATS almost pumped 30 times in 3 or 4 weeks
CATS pumped 4 times today.

Who are pumping them? I do not want to believe it is not bitcoin people.

They can not be pumped forever. They will be cooled down and even crashed soon. I wish luckiness for any people who are joining those pump and dump games.

Quote from: Abiky on December 17, 2023, 09:15:41 PM

Indeed. But there's nothing we can do about it if we want to keep Bitcoin censorship-resistant. It's a permissionless network after all. You can either wait until fees decline (usually on weekends) or switch to an altcoin with lower network congestion. You can also get into the Lightning Network after on-chain fees decline to an acceptable level. Afterwards, it'll be possible to send/receive BTC almost instantaneously at a fraction of the cost.

Just like ICOs became a passing fad, I believe the same will happen with Ordinals NFTs. You just need to be patient. As long as decentralization is preserved, nothing else matters. Cheesy

The wave of massive ICOs on Ethereum blockchain in 2017 and the hot game CryptoKitties in that year caused very serious congestion on Ethereum blockchain but it finally cleared.

The Inside Story of the CryptoKitties Congestion Crisis

The DeFi, NFT, GameFi waves in 2021 caused congestion on Ethereum blockchain too but again finally it cleared.

Ethereum network congested in 2021 because of dApps.

Bitcoin blockchain had problems with mempools, high demands and expensive transaction fees many times but finally it cleared.
https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#BTC%20(default%20mempool),all,weight

I agree that the Bitcoin blockchain must be permissionless and censorship-resistant but I also see if there is no solution for Ordinals, problems in mempools will become worse and worse before Ordinals die for good.

Abiky

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Quote from: Oshosondy on December 15, 2023, 03:43:43 AM

Can you see the mempool? Very congested.

Who are the ones pumping SATS and RATS? I can see CATS on Polonix pumped 400% today. Probably they will bounce on it to pump it more.

You know the funniest thing? No presale, no social media, no advertisement for these tokens.

SATS pumped almost 10 times in 2 weeks. Having over $1.75 billion now in marketcap.
RATS almost pumped 30 times in 3 or 4 weeks
CATS pumped 4 times today.

Who are pumping them? I do not want to believe it is not bitcoin people.

Indeed. But there's nothing we can do about it if we want to keep Bitcoin censorship-resistant. It's a permissionless network after all. You can either wait until fees decline (usually on weekends) or switch to an altcoin with lower network congestion. You can also get into the Lightning Network after on-chain fees decline to an acceptable level. Afterwards, it'll be possible to send/receive BTC almost instantaneously at a fraction of the cost.

Just like ICOs became a passing fad, I believe the same will happen with Ordinals NFTs. You just need to be patient. As long as decentralization is preserved, nothing else matters. Cheesy

ABCbits

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Quote from: Oshosondy on December 15, 2023, 07:18:28 AM

Quote from: ABCbits on December 15, 2023, 07:11:12 AM

I have a question, what qualify someone to be bitcoin people? Just owning Bitcoin?

I am referring to those early adopters, miners and developers. Two developers surfaced on the news about how Ordinals and BRC20 tokens are spamming the mempool and that they should be removed, but there are still others developers that will support it. I do not believe anymore that Ordinals existence which some people called vulnerability was not knowingly introduced by bitcoin developers. It is now too late, there is nothing that can be done than to work on how to reduce mempool congestion.

That's rather strict way to define Bitcoin people. Anyway, i don't expect miner/pool to oppose Ordinals while only minority developer strongly against BRC-20 while majority seems to neutral or doesn't state their opinion.

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Quote from: Oshosondy on December 15, 2023, 03:43:43 AM

Who are pumping them? I do not want to believe it is not bitcoin people.

My guess would be some speculators on one of the crypto pumping group, they pump it in hope for other people buying it more classic pump-and-dump strategies. From I have read, most of the community doesn't like BRC20 because it increase the transaction fees of Bitcoin. The one who can be trapped on this scheme would be the new comer.

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Quote from: Oshosondy on December 15, 2023, 03:43:43 AM

Who are pumping them? I do not want to believe it is not bitcoin people.

Most of the investors these days have Bitcoin on their wallet. There are what we called small investors and big investors. If you are referring "bitcoin people" to small investors then it's clearly not true that they are the cause of the pump. Small investors can't pump price especially if the marketcap of a currency is huge such as Bitcoin. The big pump in the market, you can determine it by those impulsive or big candlesticks, is caused by big investors or institutions. Once they see that the currency is legit they will not hesitate to invest and it will make a big changes to the price which can bring hype to all other investors.

cryptomaniac_xxx

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Quote from: Oshosondy on December 15, 2023, 03:43:43 AM

Who are pumping them? I do not want to believe it is not bitcoin people.

We can all speculate that it's not the bitcoin enthusiast that is pumping them. Maybe it did come from the altcoin market, who is well known to this kind of pump and dump. But who knows, we are all taking about money here, and so everyone has it's intention behind to follow the trend and what not.

I'm not aware of those ordinals though, I'm not into it. But I was just surprised that the mempool was congested again since Friday if I'm not mistaken. It had settled down a bit to 30 sat/vB before this ordinals and now goes again to 200 sat/vB - 300 sat/vB which is really ridiculous price for a transaction.

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I don't like to say this, but I suspect that the miners. "ALL" of them are in support of BRC20.
Why? BRC20 became more popular = bitcoin transaction fees will be higher and higher transaction fees = more profit to those miners.

Maybe some are just trying to ride the hype, and they don't care about high transaction fees? It all comes to money in the end. Those who will gain more will support whatever it is. I don't know if this Ordinals thing will be removed, or at least it will not affect the transaction fees of Bitcoin, but one thing's for sure, those who are doing Dollar Cost Averaging with Bitcoin might have to adjust how frequently they need to buy because of these insanely high gas fees.

SATS? RATS? CATS? I didn't hear these coins until today. What would be the next names of the coins? BATS? DATS? GATS? HATS? LATS? PATS? WATS? :X I guess this BRC20 hype will remain until the bull run.

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Quote from: Oshosondy on December 16, 2023, 07:13:08 AM

Yes, all that would be done are left to bitcoin developers to remove Ordinals and it is even a simple step according to what I have read about it online. But this can not be done because of the ways ordinals are. If something like the removal is proposed, it may divide the bitcoin community or the Ordinals would win because with the existence of Ordinals, bitcoin miners are making more money on transaction fee and it would be what they will like.

OP, here I would like to say the people I've interacted with have strong opinions opposing the ordinals on the forum but the people outside the forum on the TG, communities, and in my friends circle strongly believe that it's unstoppable and good for the freedom on the network, blocking the ordinals is not a perfect solution also the hype wave always manipulate the emotions.

In hype they won't consider ordinal suspension as a wise action and most people will appose it.

Oshosondy

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Quote from: kryptqnick on December 16, 2023, 07:05:29 AM

I'm not sure about it, so I'm genuinely asking: can Ordinals be banned somehow? Can something be introduced to make new Ordinals impossible, for example? I'm thinking of something like a SegWit event (in a sense of introducing major changes). Is the problem that it's technically impossible or that there's lack of agreement to do it, so it's practically impossible?
I sincerely hope that the interest will naturally die out, but it's unfortunate that all we can do is wait it out.

Yes, all that would be done are left to bitcoin developers to remove Ordinals and it is even a simple step according to what I have read about it online. But this can not be done because of the ways ordinals are. If something like the removal is proposed, it may divide the bitcoin community or the Ordinals would win because with the existence of Ordinals, bitcoin miners are making more money on transaction fee and it would be what they will like.

Topic: Bitcoin community are in support of BRC20 (Read 429 times)