What ever makes Bitcoin more secure and private should be considered, tested and implemented asap. It helps make it more popular ultimate world currency
No.Decentralisation is the point of bitcoin.
Topic: Bitcoin Confiscation (Read 4419 times)
Decentralisation is the point of bitcoin.
how about BTC sucks up all fiat money in da wurlde 
then the planet is on the BTC STANDARD
then the planet is on the BTC STANDARD
Wunder what all that paper could be used for then....
What ever makes Bitcoin more secure and private should be considered, tested and implemented asap. It helps make it more popular ultimate world currency
I am reminded of FDR's executive order 6102 of 4/5/1933 which, by the stroke of a pen, made the mere possession of gold a federal crime, and offered rewards to anyone who betrayed anyone else. Sure, a handful of brave people tried to hide their gold, but the practice became as marginalized and shunned as, say, drugs or porn today.
I hate to say it, but if possession of a bitcoin privkey became a federal felony, with informant rewards, I can think of a couple of relatives who would rat me out in a heartbeat.
I hate to say it, but if possession of a bitcoin privkey became a federal felony, with informant rewards, I can think of a couple of relatives who would rat me out in a heartbeat.
FDR did this because the Nazis and their allies had control of the majority of the gold at the time. If you're gonna actually cite history please do so in context. It was World War 2 and FDR had no easy options, also the gold hoarders tried to launch a fascist coup attempt (Google the Business Plot) which triggered his response.
You're right about informants though. In this world you cannot fully trust anyone, not friends, not family, not parents or siblings or best friend or husband or wife. For some things you can only trust yourself to look out for you.
WTF??? WTF??? WHF???
As for the Business Plot, what a joke. About on the level of arresting a two bit anti-arab filmaker and blaming Bengazi on him.
Wait, didn't that just happen?
how about BTC sucks up all fiat money in da wurlde
then the planet is on the BTC STANDARD
then the planet is on the BTC STANDARD
Wunder what all that paper could be used for then....
They are coming for my bitcoins! 
How many do I have?
Oh right, no one knows.
How many do I have?
Oh right, no one knows.
The block chain says.... at least 0.13751.
They are coming for my bitcoins!
How many do I have?
Oh right, no one knows.
How many do I have?
Oh right, no one knows.
Quote
well it was designed to do that we do have 100,000,000 subdivisions of 1 bitcoin
u can divide a bitcoin as often as u like 
how about BTC sucks up all fiat money in da wurlde
then the planet is on the BTC STANDARD
then the planet is on the BTC STANDARD
well it was designed to do that we do have 100,000,000 subdivisions of 1 bitcoin so if you consider we have 21,000,000 available coins thats... 21 quadrillion dollars; suspiciously... thats the number is 100 times the value of all money in circulation... so that would be enough to handle all the transactions on the planet.
It could happen, the deflationary characteristics of bitcoin would allow it to grab all of that safely forcing all failing government to switch their currencies to Bitcoin since it appreciates in value as more people begin using it, there fore no one would ever need to switch their money to fiat again...
Madness!!!! Satoshi! you are a Genius!!! as marginalized and shunned as, say, drugs or porn today.
That doesn't sound so bad...
how about BTC sucks up all fiat money in da wurlde
then the planet is on the BTC STANDARD
then the planet is on the BTC STANDARD
Wunder what all that paper could be used for then....
If the powers that be wanted to stop bitcoin they would just buy a lot of hardware and do a simple 51% attack and be done with it.
Not really true.It's useful to consider the history of substitute currencies, historically. There are several dozen studied cases where as one currency lost trust, others came to be used. Often the death penalty was used to try to prevent the good money from coming in.
It never worked.
Good money always wins out in the end.
I am reminded of FDR's executive order 6102 of 4/5/1933 which, by the stroke of a pen, made the mere possession of gold a federal crime, and offered rewards to anyone who betrayed anyone else. Sure, a handful of brave people tried to hide their gold, but the practice became as marginalized and shunned as, say, drugs or porn today.
I hate to say it, but if possession of a bitcoin privkey became a federal felony, with informant rewards, I can think of a couple of relatives who would rat me out in a heartbeat.
I hate to say it, but if possession of a bitcoin privkey became a federal felony, with informant rewards, I can think of a couple of relatives who would rat me out in a heartbeat.
FDR did this because the Nazis and their allies had control of the majority of the gold at the time. If you're gonna actually cite history please do so in context. It was World War 2 and FDR had no easy options, also the gold hoarders tried to launch a fascist coup attempt (Google the Business Plot) which triggered his response.
Additionally, as it was patently unconstitutional, the first court to try a case involving this law threw it out, albeit over a technicality. While it was reissued, it effectively went away with the passage of the Gold Reserve Act.
This executive order was a clear blunder, but caused little to no actual effect in reality, except to the one guy actually prosecuted under it, who won his case. Unfortunately for him, he actually lost his gold, but at least now, it is entirely legal to possess gold, gold certificates, or any similar objects.
While in theory, the government could do this again, in practice, I don't think it would be tolerated.
Mere possession can be outlawed, but those laws can never be successfully enforced.
Example: firearms - there are laws all over the world regulating the possession of firearms, and those laws are utterly ineffective in their attempt of preventing the illegal firearm possession. Those laws are only effective if applied to the legal and dully registered firearm owners - which ironically are the only ones who comply with those laws.
Same with Bitcoin - if the governments outlaw the Bitcoin, the only Bitcoins that could be (easily) confiscated will be the ones deposited with legally compliant institutions - the ones stored in a private wallet could never be effectively confiscated.
Time to post the Bitcoin version of a "MOLON LAVE" poster, I suppose. :-)
Example: firearms - there are laws all over the world regulating the possession of firearms, and those laws are utterly ineffective in their attempt of preventing the illegal firearm possession. Those laws are only effective if applied to the legal and dully registered firearm owners - which ironically are the only ones who comply with those laws.
Same with Bitcoin - if the governments outlaw the Bitcoin, the only Bitcoins that could be (easily) confiscated will be the ones deposited with legally compliant institutions - the ones stored in a private wallet could never be effectively confiscated.
Time to post the Bitcoin version of a "MOLON LAVE" poster, I suppose. :-)
The way they will take down Bitcoin is by linking it's users to CHILD PORNOGRAPHY. If you use Bitcoin, Tor, etc, then you're a pedophile with a pedophile kit. Why else would you need all that?
And if accused of being a pedophile it's near impossible to prove you aren't when Nancy Grace or whomever in the media crucifies you.
I am reminded of FDR's executive order 6102 of 4/5/1933 which, by the stroke of a pen, made the mere possession of gold a federal crime, and offered rewards to anyone who betrayed anyone else. Sure, a handful of brave people tried to hide their gold, but the practice became as marginalized and shunned as, say, drugs or porn today.
I hate to say it, but if possession of a bitcoin privkey became a federal felony, with informant rewards, I can think of a couple of relatives who would rat me out in a heartbeat.
I hate to say it, but if possession of a bitcoin privkey became a federal felony, with informant rewards, I can think of a couple of relatives who would rat me out in a heartbeat.
Try brainwallet.
"Yes, good sir, I do own some bitcoins, but only 3 BTCs, here is my private key. What, 500? Who told you so? Some of my relatives? You can't just rely on some hear-says as evidences right?"
Or if your prosecutor is more of a "by the book" type: "Yes sir, I did store 500 bitcoins in an address(which is too long, who the fuck will remember that?) And I use this brainwallet setup to protect my private key, but unfortunately, I have totally forgotten about my passphrase, so perhaps these bitcoins are forever lost. And I think you can't prove otherwise." or just simply: "Sorry I lost my private key."
They will torture you and destroy your brain to destroy your coins.
I am reminded of FDR's executive order 6102 of 4/5/1933 which, by the stroke of a pen, made the mere possession of gold a federal crime, and offered rewards to anyone who betrayed anyone else. Sure, a handful of brave people tried to hide their gold, but the practice became as marginalized and shunned as, say, drugs or porn today.
I hate to say it, but if possession of a bitcoin privkey became a federal felony, with informant rewards, I can think of a couple of relatives who would rat me out in a heartbeat.
I hate to say it, but if possession of a bitcoin privkey became a federal felony, with informant rewards, I can think of a couple of relatives who would rat me out in a heartbeat.
FDR did this because the Nazis and their allies had control of the majority of the gold at the time. If you're gonna actually cite history please do so in context. It was World War 2 and FDR had no easy options, also the gold hoarders tried to launch a fascist coup attempt (Google the Business Plot) which triggered his response.
You're right about informants though. In this world you cannot fully trust anyone, not friends, not family, not parents or siblings or best friend or husband or wife. For some things you can only trust yourself to look out for you.
As long as SOPA/CISPA stays out (and it's never going to stop coming up, it seems,) we have as much to worry about BTC being confiscated as TPB finally going offline. But if this is just that much more incentive to lobby CISPA into existing law, get ready for a fun brawl. The one chance we got at actual freedom, whether some realize it or not, remains in the Internet being entirely open. Once government finds a way to censor (and they won't ever find a reliable way, just a good enough way for the typical uneducated,) we have a lot more trouble than Bitcoin being confiscated. They could just end the system all together, along with several other certain services we currently enjoy. I'd say civil unrest at that point will reach an all time high.
Bitcoin is money and the brightest hacker minds in the country if not in the entire world are backing it.
So the police who might be against it don't have any skill to stop it. Those who have the skill to stop it would be more likely to use it than to stop it due to their line of work.
"One [could] not merely confiscate bitcoins", gloats a forum member regarding the Cypris bank crisis. Bitcoin is great, but it's not immune to 'powers that be' corruption.
Governments could legislate1 a 'buy back'. Corporations could seize assets via heavy handed legal action. ISPs or agencies could subjugate the network via technical (ISP/Backbone) level filtering, man-in-the-middle attacks, denial of service.
What could be done to the bitcoin network to prevent - say a government, corporation - from network/developer/miner coercion? How resilient would Bitcoin be to any of these 'social engineering' scenarios?
At the technical level, consider ISP port filtering (ala Bitorrent) (I have not read the whitepaper as to how much thought was given to this). Bitcoin Network Monitor, Bitcoin address <=> IP monitor, ISP subpoena, etc. If BTC nodes end up requiring services similar to TOR to survive, what chance does legitimate BTC usage have?
Offline, deposit only 'cold' wallets could protect against technical efforts. Pre-existing software security solutions might help when applied to BTC (i.e. randomize Bitcoin port, bundle Bitcoin-QT with TOR, one click cold wallets...)
Hoarding physical cash might prevent 'bank' level manipulation from effecting you, similar to cold bitcoin wallets. Think of physical fiat as a cold wallet, and electronic fiat as online wallets.
The benefits of 'running your own bank' might not seem significant if you can't connect to the network (i.e. you can't process transactions).
/TheEndIsNighRant
1 1933 Emergency Banking Act
Governments could legislate1 a 'buy back'. Corporations could seize assets via heavy handed legal action. ISPs or agencies could subjugate the network via technical (ISP/Backbone) level filtering, man-in-the-middle attacks, denial of service.
What could be done to the bitcoin network to prevent - say a government, corporation - from network/developer/miner coercion? How resilient would Bitcoin be to any of these 'social engineering' scenarios?
At the technical level, consider ISP port filtering (ala Bitorrent) (I have not read the whitepaper as to how much thought was given to this). Bitcoin Network Monitor, Bitcoin address <=> IP monitor, ISP subpoena, etc. If BTC nodes end up requiring services similar to TOR to survive, what chance does legitimate BTC usage have?
Offline, deposit only 'cold' wallets could protect against technical efforts. Pre-existing software security solutions might help when applied to BTC (i.e. randomize Bitcoin port, bundle Bitcoin-QT with TOR, one click cold wallets...)
Hoarding physical cash might prevent 'bank' level manipulation from effecting you, similar to cold bitcoin wallets. Think of physical fiat as a cold wallet, and electronic fiat as online wallets.
The benefits of 'running your own bank' might not seem significant if you can't connect to the network (i.e. you can't process transactions).
/TheEndIsNighRant
1 1933 Emergency Banking Act
Quote
authorize the Secretary of the Treasury to order any individual or organization in the United States to deliver any gold that they possess or have custody of to the Treasury in return for "any other form of coin or currency coined or issued under the laws of the United States - http://tucnak.fsv.cuni.cz/~calda/Documents/1930s/EmergBank_1933.html
You don't seem to understand the the police and ISPs are some of the least technologically skilled in the US populace. The police don't know what Bitcoin is and probably wouldn't understand the whitepaper to how it works. The police cannot deal with cryptography at all and ISPs aren't resourced enough to deal with it. So basically speaking, the only people who could stop Bitcoin are the secret service, the NSA, MI5/6, FSB, those kinds of people. Those kinds of people are more likely to make use of Bitcoin for their own operations than to kill it.
The result is Bitcoin isn't going to be shut down because all the brightest people and all the intellect masters are behind Bitcoin. The college professors, the engineer, the spy master, the computer hacker, the elite programmer, the cryptographer, they all are behind Bitcoin. So who exactly is left to be against Bitcoin?
The people who don't have any skill or knowledge of how Bitcoin works or what Bitcoin can do are the ones most likely to be against it. The people who don't believe in science and who think that evolution is a myth.
TPTB aren't worried in the least.
How much disappears per hour via the magic printing press into Iraq, Afghanistan etc etc etc...
Buy it out, dump it in the garbage, put your feet up, and light a cigar. Game over please insert quarter.
How much disappears per hour via the magic printing press into Iraq, Afghanistan etc etc etc...
Buy it out, dump it in the garbage, put your feet up, and light a cigar. Game over please insert quarter.
Well they could never "confiscate" bitcoin. But if they did manage to destroy bitcoin while simultaneously offering the only alternative (think fiat) than that would be functionally equivalent, since the value that is currently represented by bitcoin would flee to their monetary system. So then we should be asking can they make it imposable for the bitcoin network to function?
It would require a law something like this "anyone who sends data over a computer network thats nature can not be easily discerned will be subject punishment at the hands of the state". This could theoretically work. The problem is that major institutions all over the world rely on encryption. They could theoretically then create encryption licenses and that might work.
But really if they became this extreme the emperors lack of clothing would be SO apparent that even to the most brainwashed state enforcers would begin to awaken. That doesnt mean they wont try it though if bitcoin begins to challenge their power structure. but if they do try it than it will be from a position of extreme desperation. If they do try something this extreme than it would be a clear indication that statism is in its final death throws.
It would require a law something like this "anyone who sends data over a computer network thats nature can not be easily discerned will be subject punishment at the hands of the state". This could theoretically work. The problem is that major institutions all over the world rely on encryption. They could theoretically then create encryption licenses and that might work.
But really if they became this extreme the emperors lack of clothing would be SO apparent that even to the most brainwashed state enforcers would begin to awaken. That doesnt mean they wont try it though if bitcoin begins to challenge their power structure. but if they do try it than it will be from a position of extreme desperation. If they do try something this extreme than it would be a clear indication that statism is in its final death throws.
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