Bitcoin core, Bitcoin xt, forks left right and centre, Where do i stand?

LiteCoinGuy

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Quote from: Hexadecibel on August 11, 2015, 01:14:05 PM

Quote

yes but i will agree more to do this step all together from doing alone only one developer. Is not good this choice for the bitcoin ecosystem if anyone on day decide to fork alone the bitcoin core.

Its not up to one developer. He either has the best idea, and the ecosystem you're talking about goes along with it or they don't. The Ecosystem in this case being hash power and nodes. If thats the direction things go, not a single bitcoin dev will be left out in the cold.

dont forget Payment Processors and Exchanges . iam pretty sure they want a global ledger with millions of people and no paypal 2.0

fryarminer

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Quote from: tss on August 12, 2015, 01:51:28 AM

Quote from: fryarminer on August 12, 2015, 12:58:33 AM

Quote from: tss on August 11, 2015, 11:38:17 PM

Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on August 11, 2015, 12:56:38 PM

you dont have to change anything if you hold your private keys. in that case you will be on the correct side anyway.

(but if you want to go "to da moon", support XT

)

yup the spam network will be worth millions. when 0 fees aren't enough for miners we'll just lift the hard cap. no biggie. its all about adjusting to force things to success. who cares about market forces right?

Part of the reason why people like bitcoin are the low fees. Why raise the fees? That's what banks are for!

no one is raising the fees. the market should determine the fees. currently they are very low or none at all. the future and mass adoption, if ever, will decide new fees. allowing 0 fees forever for all transactions as mike hearn proposes will make 1 btc worth $0 and 0 cents. most can't understand this so my argument is futile.

long story short. if you create a zero fee spam network, all you will have left is a public ledger worth nothing. if that's what you want btc to be, then we will never agree.

who will secure the network for nothing?

You shouldn't be thinking that we need to have 25btc of fees in each block after the halving. After a few halvings there will be more fees than bitcoin in each block and the market price will rectify it. Mining 1btc of fees will be the same as mining 25btc and little fees today.
BTC is an animal that can't be tamed. We shouldn't try to artificially keep the block size contained, nor should we artificially try to increase fees. Just let it do its thing.

Digit-0

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in the end, you only find the beginning

Quote from: Amph on August 11, 2015, 12:57:54 PM

nah just hold, yes there is the possibility of a tiny drop because of the fork but i don't believe it will be big enough to tempt you to sell before and buy after for big profit

i would suggest to not do anything and update when everything will be settled

as simply as that, ppl should stop to have panic about it, as you sayd, when everything is settled i will take my on decisions, untill that, just relax and see how things are going on.

gentlemand

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Quote from: tss on August 12, 2015, 01:51:28 AM

currently they are very low or none at all. the future and mass adoption, if ever, will decide new fees. allowing 0 fees forever for all transactions as mike hearn proposes will make 1 btc worth $0 and 0 cents. most can't understand this so my argument is futile.

long story short. if you create a zero fee spam network, all you will have left is a public ledger worth nothing. if that's what you want btc to be, then we will never agree.

There's a balance that needs finding. Bitcoin must become bigger and much more valuable relatively rapidly due to the diminishing block reward.

'The market' has a plethora of options for their needs right now. They're not going to dive in if it costs the equivalent of $10 for a place in blockchain history. The market will throw up better options that are affordable and scalable if Bitcoin can't deliver it.

I think the people involved often forget that almost the entire planet doesn't give the slightest shit about Bitcoin and it won't even register if it turns to dust.

It's up to BTC to compel them to be interested and they need to understand why it has value if fees are going to be costly. That's one bitch of a sell.

tss

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Quote from: fryarminer on August 12, 2015, 12:58:33 AM

Quote from: tss on August 11, 2015, 11:38:17 PM

Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on August 11, 2015, 12:56:38 PM

you dont have to change anything if you hold your private keys. in that case you will be on the correct side anyway.

(but if you want to go "to da moon", support XT

)

yup the spam network will be worth millions. when 0 fees aren't enough for miners we'll just lift the hard cap. no biggie. its all about adjusting to force things to success. who cares about market forces right?

Part of the reason why people like bitcoin are the low fees. Why raise the fees? That's what banks are for!

no one is raising the fees. the market should determine the fees. currently they are very low or none at all. the future and mass adoption, if ever, will decide new fees. allowing 0 fees forever for all transactions as mike hearn proposes will make 1 btc worth $0 and 0 cents. most can't understand this so my argument is futile.

long story short. if you create a zero fee spam network, all you will have left is a public ledger worth nothing. if that's what you want btc to be, then we will never agree.

who will secure the network for nothing?

fryarminer

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Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Quote from: tss on August 11, 2015, 11:38:17 PM

Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on August 11, 2015, 12:56:38 PM

you dont have to change anything if you hold your private keys. in that case you will be on the correct side anyway.

(but if you want to go "to da moon", support XT

)

yup the spam network will be worth millions. when 0 fees aren't enough for miners we'll just lift the hard cap. no biggie. its all about adjusting to force things to success. who cares about market forces right?

Part of the reason why people like bitcoin are the low fees. Why raise the fees? That's what banks are for!

tss

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Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on August 11, 2015, 12:56:38 PM

you dont have to change anything if you hold your private keys. in that case you will be on the correct side anyway.

(but if you want to go "to da moon", support XT

)

yup the spam network will be worth millions. when 0 fees aren't enough for miners we'll just lift the hard cap. no biggie. its all about adjusting to force things to success. who cares about market forces right?

solex

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Quote from: Mickeyb on August 11, 2015, 04:13:50 PM

Quote from: helloeverybody on August 11, 2015, 12:53:37 PM

With all this talk of people switching to xt and increasing the block size to 8mb what does this mean for me and my coins? Do they come over to whatever is finally decided or do i have to sell up and buy once things settle? For something that everyone here is wanting to go mainstream it seems to be getting overly complicated.

As I understood, we don't have do nothing, just wait to see the final outcome. Confidence will be shaken up a bit and that's for sure and we will see this drop in confidence manifested by the drop in price. How much will that be, I don't know but sure some exciting and uncertain times are in front of us!

Correct. All bitcoins are 100% fine before the fork occurs (when two sets of miners begin deliberately hashing separate chains). The only bitcoins which are not fine are the ones which are newly mined on the weaker chain after the chain is forked.
This is actually happening every day when an orphan block occurs and the miner that mined it finds the reward unspendable, and has to abandon the block and return to the main chain. It is just unusual that several blocks in a row get mined on what becomes an orphan chain. This happened a couple of months ago.

What is the weaker chain? The fork which does not have >50% of the hashing power. Considering that a fork wil not occur until at least 75% of the miners are on one fork then it will be abundantly obvious to the miners thashing away on the weak fork that they are wasting time and money on what is destined to be a dead-end orphan chain.

All BTC holders are cool regardless.

monsanto

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Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on August 11, 2015, 04:54:17 PM

Quote from: TheD1ceMan on August 11, 2015, 01:34:08 PM

Question 1 : No
Question 2: During the transition period if both are used at the same time only pre-fork coins though.

again, sorry for those questions. but i am neither a mathematician nor a programmer so some of the more technical aspects of BTC are to confusing for me..

2 questions:
- i keep the majority of my BTC on my trezor wallet. do i need to do anything in case BTC forks?

-No your coins will exist pre-and post fork its only new coins created after Bitcoin Core or XT separate that would be affected

- additionally, my my parents bought some BTC because i am told them too invest a little bit and they keep it in a armory wallet. do they need to do anything?

No as well their coins still exist pre and post fork

last question: some people in other threads mentioned that one could double their BTC if they switch to XT. is that correct? and if yes, is this doubling only for the people that switch at the beginning and people that don't switch immediately loose out on this opportunity? or will the amount of BTC double when the majority decide to fork? if i/we need to do something, how can someone using trezor and/or armory make this happend?

If some exchanges accept QT coins while others take XT coins
Your coins would be valid on both blockchains since they are before the forking occured and would trade with value until consensus is reached and one chain is abandoned.

Would this be wallet dependent? Lets say, someone downloaded a wallet, and like the other posters example, went away for 5 years while XT is adopted. If when they return they try to use their old wallet, would it only work if QT chain was still operational? Of course, as soon as they upgraded to XT wallet, I guess they could use their coins as if no change had occurred.

gentlemand

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Quote from: chek2fire on August 11, 2015, 07:39:43 PM

I think after that this situation will open the private blockchains because they will say that p2p system cant survive because this systems need someone to guide them.

If it's done right and other technical trickery catches up this might be the final fork.

chek2fire

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yeah is more logical step to fork or confuse bitcoin the time that it has the most attention in financial system and to the people around the world.
Is the most logical step to create a chaos in the system in that time and many people to lose their money and to be the bitcoin in the first pages of newspaper in one more negative way.
I think after that this situation will open the private blockchains because they will say that p2p system cant survive because this systems need someone to guide them.

gentlemand

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Quote from: ransomer on August 11, 2015, 05:05:50 PM

and if someone goes travelling around the world by boat for 5 years... and they come back 5 years after 'their' chain has been abandoned? Would the average postman or butcher's wife know what to do?

There's only 'their chain' if they're mining, which is something unlikely to be left alone for five years. If your coins are dormant then all will be fine. By that point all this crap'll be a distant memory and they'll be spendable on the chain that won.

chek2fire

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Quote from: ransomer on August 11, 2015, 05:02:38 PM

About a week ago I told a colleague about bitcoin and how I like the technology. He got more and more interested.

Then he learned about altcoins and the idea that even if distributed ledger is a great idea - it might not be bitcoin which is left standing.

... so he became less interested... but still considering getting into bitcoin.

Then he learned about bitcoin forks..

.... And he put bitcoin on hold.

...

Adoption of any blockchain backed currency is being hindered by the chaos we have at the moment.

If bitcoin could have been held safely and easily by individuals is still the main hindrance to adoption, but the mess of altcoins and forks etc is another unattractive chaos that is not helping bitcoin at all...

And who give the permission to one developer to create such chaos in bitcoin? Is nonsense

Swordsoffreedom

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Quote from: ransomer on August 11, 2015, 05:05:50 PM

'
and if someone goes travelling around the world by boat for 5 years... and they come back 5 years after 'their' chain has been abandoned? Would the average postman or butcher's wife know what to do?

5 Years later wiki would have all the information on what happened
Then a google search Tongue

(It would likely be a tutorial on how to move your wallet to the new system on a website by then Wink

)

ransomer

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Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on August 11, 2015, 04:54:17 PM

Quote from: TheD1ceMan on August 11, 2015, 01:34:08 PM

Question 1 : No
Question 2: During the transition period if both are used at the same time only pre-fork coins though.

again, sorry for those questions. but i am neither a mathematician nor a programmer so some of the more technical aspects of BTC are to confusing for me..

2 questions:
- i keep the majority of my BTC on my trezor wallet. do i need to do anything in case BTC forks?

-No your coins will exist pre-and post fork its only new coins created after Bitcoin Core or XT separate that would be affected

- additionally, my my parents bought some BTC because i am told them too invest a little bit and they keep it in a armory wallet. do they need to do anything?

No as well their coins still exist pre and post fork

last question: some people in other threads mentioned that one could double their BTC if they switch to XT. is that correct? and if yes, is this doubling only for the people that switch at the beginning and people that don't switch immediately loose out on this opportunity? or will the amount of BTC double when the majority decide to fork? if i/we need to do something, how can someone using trezor and/or armory make this happend?

If some exchanges accept QT coins while others take XT coins
Your coins would be valid on both blockchains since they are before the forking occured and would trade with value until consensus is reached and one chain is abandoned.

'
and if someone goes travelling around the world by boat for 5 years... and they come back 5 years after 'their' chain has been abandoned? Would the average postman or butcher's wife know what to do?

ransomer

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

About a week ago I told a colleague about bitcoin and how I like the technology. He got more and more interested.

Then he learned about altcoins and the idea that even if distributed ledger is a great idea - it might not be bitcoin which is left standing.

... so he became less interested... but still considering getting into bitcoin.

Then he learned about bitcoin forks..

.... And he put bitcoin on hold.

...

Adoption of any blockchain backed currency is being hindered by the chaos we have at the moment.

If bitcoin could have been held safely and easily by individuals is still the main hindrance to adoption, but the mess of altcoins and forks etc is another unattractive chaos that is not helping bitcoin at all...

Swordsoffreedom

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: TheD1ceMan on August 11, 2015, 01:34:08 PM

Question 1 : No
Question 2: During the transition period if both are used at the same time only pre-fork coins though.

again, sorry for those questions. but i am neither a mathematician nor a programmer so some of the more technical aspects of BTC are to confusing for me..

2 questions:
- i keep the majority of my BTC on my trezor wallet. do i need to do anything in case BTC forks?

-No your coins will exist pre-and post fork its only new coins created after Bitcoin Core or XT separate that would be affected

- additionally, my my parents bought some BTC because i am told them too invest a little bit and they keep it in a armory wallet. do they need to do anything?

No as well their coins still exist pre and post fork

last question: some people in other threads mentioned that one could double their BTC if they switch to XT. is that correct? and if yes, is this doubling only for the people that switch at the beginning and people that don't switch immediately loose out on this opportunity? or will the amount of BTC double when the majority decide to fork? if i/we need to do something, how can someone using trezor and/or armory make this happend?

If some exchanges accept QT coins while others take XT coins
Your coins would be valid on both blockchains since they are before the forking occured and would trade with value until consensus is reached and one chain is abandoned.

Mickeyb

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Move On !!!!!!

Quote from: helloeverybody on August 11, 2015, 12:53:37 PM

With all this talk of people switching to xt and increasing the block size to 8mb what does this mean for me and my coins? Do they come over to whatever is finally decided or do i have to sell up and buy once things settle? For something that everyone here is wanting to go mainstream it seems to be getting overly complicated.

As I understood, we don't have do nothing, just wait to see the final outcome. Confidence will be shaken up a bit and that's for sure and we will see this drop in confidence manifested by the drop in price. How much will that be, I don't know but sure some exciting and uncertain times are in front of us!

dothebeats

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I'm still running mine on core, and as what others always say, don't be the first one to update. Let them test first and find bugs and if anything is already cleared, go update.

TheD1ceMan

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Quote from: Alley on August 11, 2015, 01:39:05 PM

Anybody saying their going to double their btc is a troll.
No you don't have to do anything. The only coins to be worried about would be ones bought after the fork.

thanks!

Topic: Bitcoin core, Bitcoin xt, forks left right and centre, Where do i stand? (Read 1364 times)