Bitcoin Could Make ATM Skimmers a Thing of the Past

master-P

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Quote from: Mobius on September 04, 2014, 04:11:54 AM

I predict old school muggings will make a comeback in localbitcoin transactions. Or a more likely scenario would be more sophisticated malware through apps if our phones start becoming wallets (which is already a trend being set).

There have been a good number of attempted robberies on LBC. There have been a number of reports of people trying to trick them into giving the release code for the funds to be released.

We could also certainly see an increase of robberies at BTC ATMs by people trying to steal the private key receipt from bitcoin buyers.

Fearless

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Quote from: cryptocoinsnews on September 03, 2014, 04:15:28 AM

... The ATM is one of these positive innovations that are now targeted heavily by malicious technology. There are people using things called “skimmers,” and they’ve become incredibly efficient at stealing banking information over the past decade. If Bitcoin catches a mainstream wave, it could be the answer to this problem.

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/bitcoin-make-atm-skimmers-thing-past/2014/09/03

Will Bitcoin ATMs become big and be the answer to the Skimmer Problem?

It's not that the normal ATMs and banking sectors doesn't try fro their side to make the system more secure.But the fact is that they are all targeting people to give a sense of easy services but not concerning more on secure side

dompsairs

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You need to first fix shit like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo

Roll Eyes

hhanh00

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Quote from: Scoremaster on September 04, 2014, 11:36:09 AM

why is a bitcoin atm any different? why cant someone load something in there that copies everything that the atm spits out? if something made a copy of it and sent it out to someone they would have the private key and address and could generate it and take the bitcoins that were loaded to the address.

not sure what ur talking about.

Some Bitcoin ATMs don't spill out anything. They transfer money to the address you give and there is nothing secret about that. Even for the ones that print out a ticket, a typical user will immediately transfer the balance into his own wallet. If the scammer beats him to it, he will notice and call the bank on the spot. But with a normal ATM the scammer steals the PIN and he can rob the user at a later time for even more than what later withdrew.
In a way, we see the power of asymmetric encryption. With BTC, you only give information that allows you to receive money. With a normal ATM, you are showing the secret key that allows people to withdraw any amount of money.

Justine

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Quote from: chennan on September 03, 2014, 05:22:56 AM

I think BTC is easy to find ways to avoid such kind of scam comparing with the ATM. It is decentralised and anonymous.

One scam goes away. That open many other doors for other scams.

Check out the security and altcoin sub forum to see how many get scammed "invested" in those companies, coins.

Scoremaster

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Hi I am back from a long period of away time :)

why is a bitcoin atm any different? why cant someone load something in there that copies everything that the atm spits out? if something made a copy of it and sent it out to someone they would have the private key and address and could generate it and take the bitcoins that were loaded to the address.

not sure what ur talking about.

Dogtanian

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Bitcoin ATMs wont eradicate thefts, hackers will just have to get smarter or adapt. I hope these btc atm machine makers have taken all the neccesary security precautions. I'm sure there will be ways to hack into some of them.

Mobius

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I predict old school muggings will make a comeback in localbitcoin transactions. Or a more likely scenario would be more sophisticated malware through apps if our phones start becoming wallets (which is already a trend being set).

hhanh00

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We shouldn't use atm that print out secret keys but the models that let you scan a receiver qr code.

johncarpe64

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It would still be possible to do very a very similar attack on a BTC ATM. A potential attack would likely be a camera is installed outside of where the receipt with the private key is printed that allows a buyer to redeem his bitcoin into his own wallet/more secure address. The camera would scan the receipt as it is printed, and redeem the funds that the buyer had just purchased.

I can't think of any attacks on an ATM that is buying bitcoin from a customer, but I am sure there are some.

Victoo

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It's a long way to go. Hackers are not leaving any chance of stealing bitcoins and keep exploring new ways to attack.

hhanh00

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Quote from: tl121 on September 03, 2014, 09:35:50 PM

Today, skimmers aren't going after bitcoin at ATMS and POS machines, because that's not where the money is (yet). But when it is, there will be ways to hack.

One way will be a side channel attack. An operating computer that uses a private key to make a digital signature reveals details of that signature through emanations . These involve power consumption, timing, EMI, mechanical vibration, and most recently, ground potential. http://cryptome.org/2014/08/get-hands-off-laptop.pdf

Thanks for the article, it was very interesting.

williamj2543

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Get ready for PrimeDice Sig Campaign!

Yes, bitcoin will solve this because of the whole way it is designed. Instead of pulling a transaction from the customer, like credit cards do which needs trust. Bitcoin pushes the transaction, almost like an email. Imagine if you were able to pull emails. Give the merchant your email address and password and they would be able to use your email, but you would have to hope they wouldn't email anyone else. Exactly like credit cards. With bitcoin, you just end the transaction and theres no way someone could misuse it, as they never had access to your credit card number.

tl121

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Today, skimmers aren't going after bitcoin at ATMS and POS machines, because that's not where the money is (yet). But when it is, there will be ways to hack.

One way will be a side channel attack. An operating computer that uses a private key to make a digital signature reveals details of that signature through emanations . These involve power consumption, timing, EMI, mechanical vibration, and most recently, ground potential. http://cryptome.org/2014/08/get-hands-off-laptop.pdf

minerpumpkin

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Skimming will change if people are starting to use Bitcoin. Just like people have to protect their credit card number or the PIN of their debit card, they'll now have to protect their mobile phones or their private keys they have somewhere. Just think about using Google Glasses in order to spy on people's private keys they got from some Bitcoin ATM!

ensurance982

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Trust me!

There will be other ways how people are being scammed and their BTCs are robbed. But effectively you are right, with BTC only you decide, where your Bitcoin really are going. Credit Cards and also some debit cards allow people to charge you for stuff you've never bought or intended to pay for. Bitcoin is like cash, it can only be pushed, but not pulled!

counter

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Quote from: oceans on September 03, 2014, 08:27:49 AM

I don't think something like bitcoin could stop all problems we have with ATM's to be honest. There will always be a way for them to work out a way around whatever is put in place to prevent any kind of scamming but there will always be someone two steps ahead working out how to crack it and scam people.

I couldn't agree more the amount of crimes that decrease from ATM's will likely see a rise in some other way shape or form. Scammers and hackers will continue to test the system and its users to find a way to infiltrate the security system and the developers will work to fix any system that has been breached and patch up the holes. Bitcoin isn't going to fix crime all across the board, that is only a response to the scams we've seen up until now.

As the bar is raised on the level of security so shall the bar be raised on the level of scams, just my 2 cents.

oceans

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I don't think something like bitcoin could stop all problems we have with ATM's to be honest. There will always be a way for them to work out a way around whatever is put in place to prevent any kind of scamming but there will always be someone two steps ahead working out how to crack it and scam people.

Kprawn

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I have seen these devices and the panels built to house them. {Very very sophisticated devices}

You can only spot the difference, if you have two atm's next to each other. They also remove the device, just after they scanned your card, so it's not easily spotted.

We have also seen devices, linked to a wifi connection, sending the data to a notebook. { 15 meters away from the ATM } They were sitting in a car, creating fake cards from the same notebook, to reduce the time, it may take to use the data from your card. {So by the time, you reach the next working ATM, the daily limit has already been drawn}

BTC will make this a lot more difficult. {No more card, so no more skimming}

The author of the article, also mentioned, that the QR Code could be manipulated to draw more money, than the acctual amount tendered for. {Which is true, but you have to check and confirm, before payment is done, so it's your own fault.}

It will just work better and it would reduce the risk of this happening with you.

blatchcorn

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Although public sentiment to Bitcoin is much more positive these days, I still feel like Bitcoin is seen as 'insecure'. I think over the next year or so, Bitcoin will receive more recognition for its security benefits

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