Topic: Bitcoin Crashing Again? - page 2. (Read 5083 times)

I try to explain that to people about the stock market: "It's not down 20%, everything simply is on a 20% off sale.". Unless the world melts down (which oddly enough I really doubt is going to happen) things will not be as bad as people think.

I guess I don't hoard then either. I invest. Long term.

I don't hoard. I save.

Well when ppl started getting there mini rigs beginning of OCT they were selling them off. Now they are getting low amount of coin return so they're holding on to them... The next batch of miners with the 28mm rigs will get here soon and the price will shoot up again. They will be the new money and wanting to sell except they will need to sell for more to get payback. This cycle will continue to repeat for a long time... Investment needs payback. So they sell. Selling creates Vol. People start holding out for more money but still willing to sell. Then the Increase in difficulty hits and they are back to hording.... March Apr of this year is when BLF started issuing their first mini rigs I believe.

I was been able to mine some coins with my GPU early this year, so you could just mine the coins early this year easily. But not anymore, I have to buy now instead (probably not only from early adopters  )

+1

If anyone has pangs of regret for spending their early bitcoins, if you hadn't spent them, you wouldn't have the opportunity for regret today! The whole bitcoin community should be really grateful for the early adopters who were spenders and actually made use of the system.

Where possible, I try to spend bitcoins or receive payments in bitcoin. I still hoard by replacing bitcoins immediately after I spend them. It's a little more cumbersome to do the Fiat -> Bitcoin -> Bitcoin -> Fiat dance, but it's still fun to see it all work.

I've lost hundreds of BTC to relentless rallies.  If you are a long term supporter, it's better to just spend them on stuff you want.  That way, you can support merchants, provide liquidity, and either lock in some profits, or rebuy them to not lose out on future gains.

If you buy gold, do you need to sel it next day to not damage the concept of gold 

Yeah. Today I sold a few coins at 760 and probably will buy back a few at 850 tomorrow. Best decision ever.

Damage the concept? LOL

You can't stop hoarding, or trust people not to hoard. If they hoard it's because of the inherent structure of bitcoin and its relationship to human nature. The concept of bitcoin doesn't get damaged by hoarders. The concept of bitcoin involves hoarding as a natural part of it.

I'm not saying bitcoin is perfect.

Why waste bitcoins on investing in businesses when fiat will do just fine?

One of my smartest decisions was to pay for my BFL pre-order with dollars last February, instead of using bitcoins. By the time I actually received my miner in late October, difficulty had increased so much that it took me a whole month to mine my first whole coin.

That was enough, at today's price, to pay for the miner, shipping, customs brokerage (grrr) and taxes. If I'd paid in Bitcoin, I'd probably never break even.

The problem with hoarding is that people don't invest their btc in businesses and technologies around bitcoin.
They just hoard and wait for the miracle to happen.

Oh my god, why is this place so full of clowns who are full to the brim of self importance? Probably has something to do with so many delusional idiots having gotten rich through sheer fluke of judgement landing them on the right side of a trade. Of course, y'all prefer to think of your good fortune as being down to your razor sharp business acumen.


I wasn't whinging.

And if I was whinging about hoarders, I wouldn't be referring to paupers like yourself.

I was merely pointing out a fact.

And it is an important fact, because if the Bitcoin price was being held up by mass adoption, and 90% of coin trades were due to participators in real world economic transactions then it would be a very different market from what it is. As it is, the market price is rising due to HOARDING. Furthermore, we all know that there are Bitcoin whales in these waters, who have the power to drive this market right down (as well as up). In a market determined by hoarding, all entrants are at the whim and mercy of the biggest hoarders, thus we are all playing in a cornered market. a very different scenario from the ideal.

P.S. I read a whole lot less of your post than you did of mine...especially if you got this far.

I'm an immaculate hoarder.

Buy as low as possible, hold as long as possible, avoid selling if at all possible, rinse and repeat.

Okay, maybe I'm a little dirty. I sold 8% of my bitcoins during last April's dead cat bounce and bought back 2 weeks later for less than 2/3 the price. The other 92% of my coins are clean and safe in paper wallets.

Me too.  If only I had hoarded better back when I was mining 0.5% of the network .

When exactly ? I see your Crash is comming post yesterday as well...

i'm just a filthy, dirty, hoarde.

That's all I saw; I stopped reading when I realized he was going to whine about hoarding.

Those damn hoarders! You sound like FDR during the great depression - it's just so darn EASY to blame everything on speculators and hoarders, when the behavior of those market actors is merely an effect of market conditions rather than a cause.
I would love to speculate on a single current cause of the price being held up, but chances are, there are dozens of significant reasons, and blaming it on "hoarders" is a great way to illustrate the kind of reductionist, polar, linear thinking that is taught in public schools these days - and even university economics courses, where the idea that the great depression was caused by foolish monetary policy is considered to be held by fringe lunatics.

Fekete would say that hoarders are a natural part of a market and serve to provide and remove liquidity. Everyone has their price and that goes both ways. We can't really consider this an artificial or unnatural influence. People like to whine about hoarders and centralization in BTC yet the USD has 1% of the holders with 40% of the dollars or something along those figures... and what about gold? Unless you're attending Porcfest or live in some backwater town in Arizona, you can't exactly spend gold, so every single gold-holder is a hoarder! Who or what is immune to this natural behavior? Hoarding is really not suitable as a scapegoat, especially since there is really not an appropriate definition of how much savings vs. monthly spendings makes ones a hoarder vs. a responsible saver. If I have 5000 BTC but spend about 2 every month am I  a hoarder or just someone with a big retirement account? If I have 100 BTC but spend none of it, am I a hoarder or just someone who spends in one currency and has a responsible savings account in another? If I have 20,000 BTC am I a 'hoarder' or just a rich mofo with a lot of bitcoins? What a futile game. "Hoarder, responsible saver, or rich motherfucker?" What about if I have 25,000 BTC, am constantly investing more fiat, and spend 500 per week on my chaffeurs and mansion upkeep and bunch of other stuff? I might be very offensive but does not my ratio of spending vs. saving qualify me as a 'responsible saver' rather than a "low-down dirty hoarder"... except that it doesn't work that way, does it?

EDIT: Here you go: Hoarding and Dishoarding, first section. Learn something! http://www.professorfekete.com/articles/AEFMonEcon102Lecture1.pdf

Back up to $800 again. Huh? Was that it?