Topic: Bitcoin Credit Card Design - page 2. (Read 5095 times)

Here's the card design of the future: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.694794 (by Timbo925)

Bitcoin: Was Born That Way



I even tweeted it to the #LadyGaga fans.

This would be the end game.  Using either QR codes and/or NFC the payment terminal (same one you click credit or debit) would provide data on the entire transaction.

This requires acceptance of a standard format which would have at least amount, and payment address but could also provide optional information which could be used by more advanced wallets like transaction time, merchant name, products purchased, digital signature of entire receipt. 

Users receives data (either NFC or by scanning QR code) and then confirms outgoing transaction in smart phone.    Cashier's terminal indicates payment successful just like w/ credit card.

To be "green" potential no paper receipt is needed.  The data sent to wallet could be used as a receipt and provides advantages of security (receipt can't be faked for returns due to digital signature), integration into money management products (imagine Quickbooks for Bitcoin ), and the ability to make backups of receipts (no more lost receipts).

Having a private key would make it easy to steal. I wonder if part of a private key could be had, and the user would have to enter another part of it kind of like a PIN.

So you'd want a Pay Me QR code posted by the merchant.  Scan it with your device, your app feeds BitCoin an address and, ideally, a total cost.  It then sends the BTC automatically once you've confirmed the transaction, and once the merchant has gotten sufficient verification from the network the transaction is successfully completed.

More optimally, merchants would generate a unique per-transaction QR code.  This would enable correct pricing and easy verification of which transaction it was that had just processed.  Per-transaction QRs could be generated on receipt paper (pre-ceipts?  QR billing?) or perhaps even just generated on a screen to be scanned with the customer's mobile device.

So what you'd seem to actually want is an app.  Easier and more cost-effective than physical materials anyway.


Be well,

- Satori

Interesting!  Perhaps relevant is that this is the way checks work in Europe.  A check is not  something you take to the bank to deposit, it is something you take to the bank to pay.  My utilities send me a check every month. 

I need to know what data MUST be on the magstripe tracks. The ISO format for contents probably is not needed as it may not fit the data. It's designed for bank accounts.

Track1: Private key to sign transactions. Some checksum digit at the end
Track2: receiving address. The starting character can be 1
Track3: Other??? No need for name of cardholder or date of expiry. The bitcoin must be anonymous and the coins will not expire. When card wears out, it can be copied to new one.

When exact needed data will known, I will try to write that on standard loco card.

The drawback is that coins can be spent with single private key must be recieved to the same address. I'm right? This means the bitcoin receiving address can be linked to single cardholder.

Could we make a card with the public key visible and the private key only visible under UV or some other obscuring scheme? I'm thinking a card like this could be "charged up" via the public key and then the private key could be swept in a more secure environment to make purchases.

I wouldn't think it would be too much. I've forgotten the format since last week when I looked at it, but Wikipedia always helps .

I looked and it seemed that the ISO/IEC 7813 standard would work:


Of course it would need to be changed, so here's what I thought:


Thinking about it, we could really just have a magnetic stripe, as it would be cheaper.

There is no need for stamped letters. The stamped letters on credit cards are legacy from earlier days of credit cards. Today most debit cards in europe (Visa Electron and Maestro) have only imprinted numbers.

There is no need for extra items on Bitcoin cards, only the magstripe is needed. They can be very cheap in bulk. In opposite to credit cards, Bitcoin cards have no need to be protected by card design and hidden UV texts and similar. You can forge a fake credit card, but You can't make a fake Bitcoin.

And how much info needs to be stored on the cards? Will they fit into ISO specified tracks?

Good to know. OK then. Casascius and others will have a working POS soon that we can use with a real Bitcoin debit card. I was under the impression that QR codes were the new thing. I guess they are best used for writing secure checks.

In among the usual personal crap there is a LOT of good information and ideas in this thread.  It describes using standard cards and other solutions using more advanced cards, etc.  I think if you go throught the whole thing and ignore the personal stuff there are some good ideas in there:  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/casascius-bitcoin-pos-system-46366

I think people have found valid solutions to pay with bitcoins, but not a perfected.

QR codes have finally got more popular up here in Canada, but there are a few flaws with them.

- The camera needs to be decent, which tends to be on smartphones
- A "app" needs to be developed to pay with bitcoins which can be a little security hazard
- The QR code has to be big enough but small enough so it's easy to scan
- The "app" needs to made well to read the QR codes, I've used a few on Windows Mobile, one was great and the rest failed to even the code in the same environment.
- QR codes seem to be a "work around" solution if you get what I mean.


My vision is that you would be able to go to any store and this happens:

Cashier: "How do you want to pay for this?"
You: "Bitcoins please"
Cashier: "Sure, just swipe your card."

Being able to do it would make BTC very popular, it would have some of the lowest fees in history, and almost everyone would be able to take them. The setup costs, and usage costs would also be much lower.

The only real problem is the initial investment for the cards. I mean the real ones, signature panel, stamped numbers and magnetic strip. Costs about $200+ USD for about 50 I think.

Someone may come along and say "OMG! HE'S GOING TO MESS THE WHOLE MARKET UP!" - This is not my point.

Someone will have to do the payments, and I want to stay away from those dirty banks . A simple program that I could design and make would perform all the tasks to transfer bitcoins for almost no fee (and side note, I'm working on a pay/transfer via url thing as well, eg. btc:\\pay\myaddress).


This is where I'd like to see bitcoins go, because right now they are only practical for internet usage, and a one off smartphone transfer via QR code. Magnetic swipe cards would be fast and easy. We could even go to RFID tags, but it's another attack surface I think it would be fairly reasonable to avoid.

Here is an old thread that may be of interest:  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/casascius-bitcoin-pos-system-46366

Partially wrong. HiCo magnetic strips are really sturdy. I tried to erase credit card from year 1998 with HiCo magstripe on it. I rubbed it against permanent magnet pulled from old radio loudspeaker. The same magnet is able to damage audio tape and sometimes it can damage standard High Density floppy discs. The credit card worked without any errors in my MSR-206 reader.

P.S. Magstripe readers are much cheaper and simpler devices than optical recognition systems needed for QR codes.

What does the card do?  How does it work?  Can you give us a simple use case?  Is it a "Pay Me" card that just has my public information on it so others can pay me or are you trying to figure out a way to use it to pay others and buy things with it (like the current fiat money denominated credit and debit cards)?

What is your vision here?

Sure I'd be happy to submit some designs. Is there something different I should change or add?

I'd like to get with that whole "credit" or "debit" card idea, but it seems like a costly investment. I thought of adding a barcode for POS systems, but I'll see what you think.

I've been referring to these as "Pay Me" cards, since they basically perform the exact opposite duty of a credit card.  (Probably not the best term, but I sort of copied that from a sci-fi TV show I was watching that referred to ID as a Show Me card.)

Instead of being used to give money, you use them to receive a payment.  Hand your card to someone, he scans it with a mobile device, and then transfers coins to your account.  You could do the same with a cell phone generated QR code, but a card eliminates the need to hand a potential stranger your valuable and rather personal mobile device.

The concept of pulling funds from an account, as is done with basically all modern banking and credit cards, is one of the most fundamental ways the entire banking system is flawed.  It will take a little change in thinking to get used to this reversal in how funds are transferred, but we'll all be much better off in the end.

By the way, I can have your card printed for you at www.paymyaddress.com.  I do also offer a 20% commission on sales from contributed designs.  So far, the best sellers have been my original design and design #5 (the one with the Casascius coin background).

We have become so accustomed to credit cards, it's hard to imagine life without them. A major problem with magnetic strips is that they are easily erased. Instead of a magnetic strip, why not just use cards loaded with small QR private key paper coins embedded. They can be removed and replaced after they are used. Change can be made to the public key. Backups can be kept stored with online wallet services in case the card is lost, and the Bitcoin balances on them can be moved to new addresses. This would be like a combination check/card. ATMs and cash registers can be adapted to even print new private keys to reload the check/card and send a backup to the online wallet.

[edit] Actually, I don't like the idea of paper either. Some sort of non-magnetic mechanical device to form QR codes would be better.
[edit 2] Memory metal would work for this. The code can be stamped and erased with heat.

Frickin' nice! Very nice! Personally, I'm having trouble getting my head wrapped around the term 'Credit Card' . Perhaps a different word or term for what you have here is in order. Hopefully the community can help me (us) out with this issue I'm having.


I think the more appropriate term would be debit card..  Just instead of the funds coming out of your bank account, they'd come out of your wallet. 

The only issue is.. since there is nothing on the card to allow you to "push" the funds by initiating a payment, a protocol would have to be developed for a "pull" transaction ...  This does, of course, involve a level of trust in where you "swipe" your card since you would really have no control over the amount of the "pull" and no recourse if more-than-expected funds were taken from your wallet.

Siggy

This guy accepts designs, and gives a portion of the profit to the designer. Submit the designs, and I will buy some. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/payment-address-on-plastic-credit-card-46933