Topic: Bitcoin, Crypto, and the Power of the Few (Read 298 times)

This is the main reason why people are after bitcoin because they feel relaxed and have been given for the very first time full control over their money. This was not the case with banks at all, there they grab money from you in the name of silly services. You need different signatures in order to withdraw your own amount. They even sometimes don’t let you withdraw complete amount. Bitcoin is definitely big rescue.

The problem with that is where do we stop if you create a new coin in order to make the distribution of wealth more fair what will happen when that fails, are you going to release another coin and then another oneuntil you get it right because the economy is not going to survive if you do that, there are always going to be differences in the amount of wealth and income that people have, some people are just more productive we need to accept that.

There are many one has to learn concerning the human behavior that influenced how the elites are rule our financial system and gathering wealth for themselves and unborn generation. Bitcoin which has been seeing as a solution to this has also be affected by this some groups of greedy and corrupt politicians and elites. We are far from  a decentralized market and system if things continue in this ways.

If I had 1000+ or more coins I would be worried about the MtGox trusteed crushing my portfolio.

We have a guy hired by a government loaded with 160,000 BTC that's constantly dumping on Kraken. Is nobody going to do anything about that?

And if I was holding 1000+ I wouldn't trade much, all I have to do is sit and relax, in 5 years I would be a billionaire++ by only selling a portion of my BTC.

If you want to make money in a bear market you have to short and that's too much risk, don't want to take such risks when you already made it at 1000+.

You need to put yourself in their shoes to understand the motives. Those guys who have a lot of coins, like 1000 or more, they are there to make money on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. Most of them don't care about the coins they're holding, they want a monthly wage to appear on their bank account. So they will pump and dump with those thousands of coins and each move can make them 10k USD, sometimes 100k, a couple moves each month and the newbie sheep get fleeced and there's 100k back on the bank account and they still got the initial 1k coins on the exchange and another month begins. They've been doing it for years and the fact that they are owning a large percentage of money on a given exchange gives them advantage.

I think Bitcoin was never intended to remove banks or any financial institutions. Just only to remove the need of a third-party / middle-man in online transactions. And also to prevent the double spending issue in online transactions. It is us people who gave bitcoin an unreasonable value to it.

It is, I do not think that it is something that we will ever escape and I have very mixed feelings about it, it is one of our biggest strength as a race and also one of our biggest weaknesses. We are now transitioning in to a world which could be plentiful enough for the many if we work together but we only got to where we are today by being driven by greed and selfishness. How can we expect people to go against that instinct that is so deep rooted in to their very selves?

Satoshi added the "The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks" thing in the genesis block for a reason (for these that don't know what this is, refer to:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block

Why did he add that paper here if he didn't want to point out at how the current system is failing therefore bitcoin is subervise of the legacy system attempting to overthrown it?

Im not sure to what extent he wanted to do that, but I think that was his ultimate fate for Bitcoin, to destroy all fiat.

Dude, if you’re going to dream you should at least stop dreaming dreams such as this. Bitcoin can never replace fiat. And as you said, most things are being controlled by the wealthy. And this same type of people you’re talking about are sneaking into Bitcoin and also ripping us off of the little we have.

They are the ones that invest heavy amount of money to drive up price and then steal away something huge at last. Criminals! I once read a story of two very rich twins, once claimed that Facebook is their idea, invested on Bitcoin and were the first to make billion from Bitcoin with just a little million they invested.

Pretty bad right? So you can never rub away from these people, they are everywhere. Bitcoin is not really giving you freedom, it’s just creating opportunities for those who will be lucky. ☹️😟

Yes correct. Bitcoin has been used in the "wrong" way since the beginning, people treat it has an investment or as an asset but it was meant to be a payment system and a currency. A payment system cannot be responsible for dreaming the wealth gap, that's expecting something unreasonable from bitcoin.

Bitcoin is not equal. That's the rule. First come, first served.
Don't join if you don't like it. At least it's free, isn't it?
There's nothing to criticize. Bitcoin is designed to keep free people away from Banks.

True, it was more an observation of some of the ideals the community have adopted - or at least the image is presented.

The white paper is, as you say, straightforward in that it's essentially about money over IP, nowhere in there is talk of revolution or overthrowing traditional financial institutions - that has been implied and appended by members of the community, who have taken to this more as evangelists on a mission.


A shame that we cannot escape this part of the human condition - for the time being. It might be centuries before we move on from this antiquated way of thinking - don't take this the wrong way, I'm for open free markets and capitalism - but it's the human condition (irrationality, fear, greed) that basically spoil what could be an elegant system.

I understand that Bitcoin isn't here to solve these problems, but it doesn't help that the community seems to preach that it will. Plus, I assumed the 'new money' personalities that crypto minted would be of the ilk that might try to solve these problems, instead, all I see is the same manipulation, the same greed.

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There were a lot more replies here than I expected, so apologies I can't reply to everyone, but I've read through all of them - thanks for replying with your thoughts and balance to this discussion.

I agree that BTC is not about philanthropy (although there have been some fantastic examples) and that crypto isn't some global effort to re-distribute wealth proportionately, even though it is redistributing wealth to some degree. However, this is the 'image' that crypto portrays to a lot of people; that it isn't just tech solution, it's about a revolution in many ways.

To me, that revolution is nullified by the economic landscape that crypto has built, where it's basically the same as our current 1% system in many ways - which isn't the end of the world, it's just an observation of the difference in the image and the reality.

I suppose after some thought, my main concern right now is that larger players are hindering adoption through their manipulation and greed. Sure, we may never live in a 'fair' world, and that's fine, nature isn't fair, the universe isn't fair, perhaps it's a utopian pipe dream, and that's OK, but if the goal is to have BTC or crypto adopted globally, then how does that work with such blatant manipulation? As another user said:

This is actually a post worth noting.

We may have found a new way to separate ourselves from the banks' control and oppression, but have we really found a way to at least bridge the gap in terms of wealth distribution? I've also wondered, yes, we are slowly inching away from a not-so-perfect system, but what we've thought as a "revolution" and "change" is just another sad story reaching the same destination of failure. The whitepaper seem to be righteous at first read, but after you've learned that there are still fiat-like manifestations retained even after we've created a completely different system, you still end up questioning why are we still running in the same circle?

Bitcoin's main goal is to give the people their power to be their own bank, but if these personal banks' assets can be controlled but a select few, then what's the point?

I agree with your idea. I think that bitcoin is being controlled by a few wealthy people and they do know how to make bitcoin looks like a rollercoaster. The more you trade, the more you will know the existence of them. They can easily knock the wall which contains more than 1000 bitcoin in less than 30 seconds. Just look at how bitfinex daily volume and you will understand. God damn it. We are just a fish for them to eat

The point is that cryptocurrencies allow people to use their money free of control by others -- government, corporations, and the so-called "wealthy-elite". There are several important distinctions that need to be cleared up.

1. The wealthiest people hold very little money relative to their total assets. An equitable distribution of cryptocurrencies would not have any effect on the distribution of wealth.

2. Cryptocurrencies do help protect us from those that want to control us. In the fiat case, they use their wealth and influence to control how we hold and use or money. In the cryptocurrency case, they do not have that same ability, regardless of how much of a cryptocurrency they hold.

3. It is a mistake to believe that the end goal of cryptocurrencies is to be an investment. At some point in the future, adoption of cryptocurrencies will reach the saturation point and their values will no longer rise. Hopefully by that point, most people will realize that cryptocurrencies are intended to be currencies and not investments. ICO coins and other crypto-based assets are clearly misnamed when they are called cryptocurrencies because they are not really intended to be currencies.

4. The volatility in the prices of cryptocurrencies has more to do with speculation and mass hysteria than pump-and-dump. Contrary to the popular mythology, "whales" are not behind pump-and-dumps.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't want the wealth of the powerful ones, what I want here is that they (the powerful ones) give me the chance to build my own wealth without bureaucracy, without unfair impositions, without having to build wealth for me and for them at same time, that is my point.

If we want to be prosperous we should start by stop glimpsing other's patrimony and focus in our own plans for the future.

About whales controlling the market, it can work on short/medium term, but once people see it became manipulated, the currency will lose its use and essence. Whales will be abandoned with a worthless currency...

Or they will turn it into a centralized market with majority's approval and will keep ruling everything as always, then decentralization fails.

You surely raise a valid point there which should be a thought for quite a number of people. Even though this topic have been discussed before, its still a matter evergreen as discussions about this will continue to haunt us whether we choose to accept it or not especially this time when influence in bitcoin is growing and large corporation are coming in with huge funds to pilot the market to achieve their own selfish interest and the valid question remained, are we not leaving one bad scenario to another? Or even a worse one.

However, without ignoring all of the possibility of things not going according to what we are made to believe about how the redistribution of wealth is going to happen, it still give the hope that things might happen in that direction. In the world to day, unless you are a genius, an absolute risk taker which one manager to pay off, or you inherit wealth, the percentage of people living comfortable might not be attainable but with crypto, all you will need is a fraction of all of those, inheritance does not matter and one could leave that comfortable life. If you ask me, it worth a try than one with no hope.

Bitcoin does solve some problems like you said but OP's concern is spot on. Do we need new cryptocurrency that will be less centralized than bitcoin, which has the problem that less than 1% of people own more than 50% of bitcoins (estimates of course). I think such new more fair cryptocurrency will need to be launched but the world is not ready for it because people are not educated enough yet so such experiment would fail.

The main idea is to bring the power to people as you said, before bitcoin, people's only choice was what brand of a bank shall they use, currently with bitcoin, people all around can choose what kind of bank they want to use.
Not to mention that a lot of people from 3rd world countries can't even afford open a bank as they don't have any nearby/ don't have the option to open a bank.
Bitcoin is the only solution for them to transfer funds abroad.
The security of a bitcoin transactions can beat any federal bank across the globes, it's something that wasn't offered before bitcoin came out.

Bitcoin will create a fairer system but make no mistake the system will never be fair what it is going to happen is that those that are at the top are the ones that are going to deserve it, right now banks do not deserve to spot they do not really give any service to the people anymore, and governments are the same as they are stealing the wealth of their citizens by inflating the currency, bitcoin will protect you from that so no one can touch your wealth.