Bitcoin defeats the Chinese government

deisik

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Quote from: Mr on April 27, 2017, 08:30:43 AM

I dont think that Bitcoin defeats the chinese government. It is only a illusion and I can ensure that not only the chinese government involve in those kind of crappy things but also the Chinese investors as well. Well, hope that Bitcoin has a good escape in this situation

I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese government and Chinese investors are in fact the same dudes

Well, at least some from both parties (actually, from one party but still). I will never believe that the authorities are not financially involved in all these huge mining farms running in China. That simply wouldn't be possible given the political system there. We see Jihun Wu smiling and think that he acts on his own while in fact he may be just following orders from someone influential in the "inner party" (as per George Orwell's 1984)

Mr

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I dont think that Bitcoin defeats the chinese government. It is only a illusion and I can ensure that not only the chinese government involve in those kind of crappy things but also the Chinese investors as well. Well, hope that Bitcoin has a good escape in this situation

dwieyani

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I am quite happy if it goes up and will blame China in its advanced bitcoin economy for everything.

deisik

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Quote from: freedomno1 on April 27, 2017, 01:17:41 AM

Until late 2016, the Chinese Bitcoin exchange market was believed to process around 95 percent of global trading. However, the enforced trading fees unraveled the true volume of Chinese Bitcoin exchanges, which currently only account for eight percent of the global Bitcoin exchange market.

With eight percent of the global Bitcoin trading volume, it seemed unlikely that a factor which affects the Chinese market would impact the global Bitcoin exchange market and ultimately, Bitcoin price

Locality is no longer playing any role

I refer to exchanges going global in terms of their operations. In this sense a Chinese exchange can be Chinese only by its name or the locality where it started its operations in the past. For example, Bitfinex (one of the largest Bitcoin exchanges out there if not outright the largest) was a Hong-Kong based company (so we could loosely call it a Chinese exchange too) but now they are messing up with Taiwanese banks for processing USD withdrawals and deposits. I won't be surprised if tomorrow they start using Swiss banks. But will it mean that they turn into a Swiss company?

freedomno1

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Quote from: jubalix on April 22, 2017, 07:31:03 AM

I think people have become increasingly immune to PboC announcements and interventions as they have become common and sort of obvious, and each time making the Chinese market less relevant,

PBOC is almost Auto Goxing what could be one of their biggest economic drivers, given their well educated population, and provide them another way out of US denominated debt.

[This is to you Head of PBOC, I know you department has people reading this.]

Now that Japan has legalized BTC, it really takes the wind out of the sales out of the "its not legal" anywhere argument and actually interlocks with local legislation a little. For example some local legislation may allow currencies to be considered legal if another country recognizes that.

Well once we realized that the Chinese real market volume was much lower than it really seemed to be then its impact was also reduced.
Instituting the minimum trading fee gave a hint to how much the real volume China has in relative terms to total bitcoin trading.
Apparently 8% but I question that number. Somewhere between 15-20% Seems more accurate
https://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/volume/30d?c=e&t=b
https://cointelegraph.com/news/no-direct-correlation-between-chinese-yuan-bitcoin-price-heres-why

Until late 2016, the Chinese Bitcoin exchange market was believed to process around 95 percent of global trading. However, the enforced trading fees unraveled the true volume of Chinese Bitcoin exchanges, which currently only account for eight percent of the global Bitcoin exchange market.

With eight percent of the global Bitcoin trading volume, it seemed unlikely that a factor which affects the Chinese market would impact the global Bitcoin exchange market and ultimately, Bitcoin price.

Monnt

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I personally think that the Chinese government was only trying hopelessly to shut down the whole talk that was going on about it controlling the bitcoin market by letting people use it however they want and them by regulating it in the past weeks, it may have made a bit of an impact on the price but sooner it changed and the price went up again, because most of the big companies that are mining bitcoin are located in china since the price of the electricity is cheap.

deisik

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Quote from: Dimelord on April 25, 2017, 01:01:54 AM

Quote from: cellard on February 11, 2017, 12:31:15 PM

China has been trying to short the bitcoin market a couple of times now by making weak hands panic sell on every of their PBOC announcements.
The PBOC is obviously using their power to destabilize the market in order to keep stealing money from weak hands and profit from margin traded short positions as well.

But something is clear: Every time they come up with a bullshit excuse to crush the price, bitcoin rises stronger and their effect on the price weakens:

By looking at this, and also by looking at the price difference between Okcoin and western exchanges, it is clear that china is no longer a dominant market maker.

They can try to shoot at him along the way, but it will keep recovering.

Bitcoin wins again and the path towards glory continues.

Bitcoin manipulation by chinese gamblers is no more possible here after.They have already made the bitcoin price to fall many times by dumping and got cheaper bitcoins.But now the scenario has completely changed.More people all over the world are ready to buy bitcoins and if the chinese try to dump bitcoins,then surely they would have to lose their bitcoins.Dragon era has come to an end.But the bitcoin rally continues unstoppable.Whatever steps china takes to destabilize the bitcoin market,bitcoin gets more and more powerful.China too have realized this and hence they have started to regulate bitcoins instead of destabilizing it.

I basically think along the same lines

But if we look at the part of the chart which is not shown (at the left of it), i.e. what had preceded these flash crashes, we would see that Bitcoin had been rising from prices of sub-600 dollars per coin levels. My point is that the PBoC interventions were actually a trigger to corrections that had already been ripe to start anyway. Indeed, without the Chinese authorities taking the steps they took the corrections might not have been as deep but, on the other hand, we wouldn't be able to buy up bitcoins so cheap either

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Quote from: Xester on April 14, 2017, 11:21:08 PM

Quote from: andrei56 on April 14, 2017, 09:01:46 PM

Quote from: omonuyak on April 10, 2017, 05:32:20 PM

Quote from: Mometaskers on February 11, 2017, 01:47:52 PM

I'm still not familiar with how most investments work but if they're earning less from it then that's a good thing. I'd understand that shorting is an investment strategy some individuals use but if the government does engage in it would really be unfair since they have larger influence in how things are run that it almost seem unethical.

very very unethical! I find out that any time the price of bitcoin make an attempt to be more than the price of gold the people bank of china will come up with they usual trick of regulations of the big exchangers like okcoin, btcc and others and the arm is to create panic were people will sell off they position. But they have be cut to their size.

If that is true then that maneuver is not going to work for long there is a reason there are not fixed rates between currency's, you can only throw so much money at something before reality hits and show us reality, if people think bitcoin is more valuable than gold then at some point it is going to show in the price whether you like it or not.

Bitcoin will not increase in value not because it is much more valuable than gold but rather it will increase in value because of its usability. When states are adopting bitcoin they are projecting bitcoin to be used as a form of payment rather than as an investment. In this sense bitcoin having this uses will be attracting more users and the demand from them will contribute to another spike in bitcoins value.

Nothing to say about the comparison between bitcoin and gold.
I've heard some of the countries have said bitcoin to be considered as a commodity and it not is considered as a payment method.

In fact that more people just known bitcoin as an investment place rather than payment method.
Too many people are holding his bitcoin in these days than used it to make any transaction.

That's a fact and it can not be avoided.

Bitcoin can not be called as payment method right now by determined from the average used

Dimelord

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Quote from: cellard on February 11, 2017, 12:31:15 PM

China has been trying to short the bitcoin market a couple of times now by making weak hands panic sell on every of their PBOC announcements.
The PBOC is obviously using their power to destabilize the market in order to keep stealing money from weak hands and profit from margin traded short positions as well.

But something is clear: Every time they come up with a bullshit excuse to crush the price, bitcoin rises stronger and their effect on the price weakens:

By looking at this, and also by looking at the price difference between Okcoin and western exchanges, it is clear that china is no longer a dominant market maker.

They can try to shoot at him along the way, but it will keep recovering.

Bitcoin wins again and the path towards glory continues.

Bitcoin manipulation by chinese gamblers is no more possible here after.They have already made the bitcoin price to fall many times by dumping and got cheaper bitcoins.But now the scenario has completely changed.More people all over the world are ready to buy bitcoins and if the chinese try to dump bitcoins,then surely they would have to lose their bitcoins.Dragon era has come to an end.But the bitcoin rally continues unstoppable.Whatever steps china takes to destabilize the bitcoin market,bitcoin gets more and more powerful.China too have realized this and hence they have started to regulate bitcoins instead of destabilizing it.

deisik

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Quote from: Sled on April 15, 2017, 12:22:31 AM

If bitcoin defeated the chines government then it would be just for temporary and not permanent because any kind of government from any part of the world will not allow that to get defeated by just one currency like bitcoin. They will do anything for them to get the control again and as much as they can they will try to control bitcoin for their own purposes

In fact, we are very far from being there

Quite a few governments have been defeated by foreign currencies in the past up to a point of completely abandoning their local monies. Everyone heard about Zimbabwe and Zimbabwean dollar which the authorities had to ditch in the end, but this is certainly not the only country which went this route. And Bitcoin can become a real threat to many weaker governments and genuine competitor to the currencies they happen to print. In other words, they might not be able to stop it. Venezuelan bolivar seems to be on the verge of collapse already, and if it does collapse (which seems to be inevitable in a matter of a few years), people will just use whatever currency they like most. There is basically nothing that a weak and incompetent government can do in this regard

Kemarit

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Quote from: Sled on April 15, 2017, 12:22:31 AM

If bitcoin defeated the chines government then it would be just for temporary and not permanent because any kind of government from any part of the world will not allow that to get defeated by just one currency like bitcoin. They will do anything for them to get the control again and as much as they can they will try to control bitcoin for their own purposes.

Bitcoin is not waging a war with any government not now not ever. The Chinese government just want to tightens and put regulations in place, aiming to bring practices in line with how bitcoin is traded in other markets. Chinese investors have fled the market since authorities started scrutinizing bitcoin trading in China, prompting exchanges to install trading fees and, in some cases, to suspend withdrawal of bitcoin from their platforms.

So its not bitcoin fault, the Chinese took advantage of the technology and the Chinese government has caught up with them by placing regulation. Fake Chinese trading volumes are thing of the past now.

jubalix

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I think people have become increasingly immune to PboC announcements and interventions as they have become common and sort of obvious, and each time making the Chinese market less relevant,

PBOC is almost Auto Goxing what could be one of their biggest economic drivers, given their well educated population, and provide them another way out of US denominated debt.

[This is to you Head of PBOC, I know you department has people reading this.]

Now that Japan has legalized BTC, it really takes the wind out of the sales out of the "its not legal" anywhere argument and actually interlocks with local legislation a little. For example some local legislation may allow currencies to be considered legal if another country recognizes that.

andrei56

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Quote from: Sled on April 15, 2017, 12:22:31 AM

If bitcoin defeated the chines government then it would be just for temporary and not permanent because any kind of government from any part of the world will not allow that to get defeated by just one currency like bitcoin. They will do anything for them to get the control again and as much as they can they will try to control bitcoin for their own purposes.

It does not matter how powerful a country is, you cannot go against reality and the facts the will of the people can be so strong that there is nothing that can stop it even the will of some of the most powerful persons in the world and bitcoin cannot be manipulated that easy.

Sled

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If bitcoin defeated the chines government then it would be just for temporary and not permanent because any kind of government from any part of the world will not allow that to get defeated by just one currency like bitcoin. They will do anything for them to get the control again and as much as they can they will try to control bitcoin for their own purposes.

Xester

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Quote from: andrei56 on April 14, 2017, 09:01:46 PM

Quote from: omonuyak on April 10, 2017, 05:32:20 PM

Quote from: Mometaskers on February 11, 2017, 01:47:52 PM

I'm still not familiar with how most investments work but if they're earning less from it then that's a good thing. I'd understand that shorting is an investment strategy some individuals use but if the government does engage in it would really be unfair since they have larger influence in how things are run that it almost seem unethical.

very very unethical! I find out that any time the price of bitcoin make an attempt to be more than the price of gold the people bank of china will come up with they usual trick of regulations of the big exchangers like okcoin, btcc and others and the arm is to create panic were people will sell off they position. But they have be cut to their size.

If that is true then that maneuver is not going to work for long there is a reason there are not fixed rates between currency's, you can only throw so much money at something before reality hits and show us reality, if people think bitcoin is more valuable than gold then at some point it is going to show in the price whether you like it or not.

Bitcoin will not increase in value not because it is much more valuable than gold but rather it will increase in value because of its usability. When states are adopting bitcoin they are projecting bitcoin to be used as a form of payment rather than as an investment. In this sense bitcoin having this uses will be attracting more users and the demand from them will contribute to another spike in bitcoins value.

andrei56

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Quote from: omonuyak on April 10, 2017, 05:32:20 PM

Quote from: Mometaskers on February 11, 2017, 01:47:52 PM

I'm still not familiar with how most investments work but if they're earning less from it then that's a good thing. I'd understand that shorting is an investment strategy some individuals use but if the government does engage in it would really be unfair since they have larger influence in how things are run that it almost seem unethical.

very very unethical! I find out that any time the price of bitcoin make an attempt to be more than the price of gold the people bank of china will come up with they usual trick of regulations of the big exchangers like okcoin, btcc and others and the arm is to create panic were people will sell off they position. But they have be cut to their size.

If that is true then that maneuver is not going to work for long there is a reason there are not fixed rates between currency's, you can only throw so much money at something before reality hits and show us reality, if people think bitcoin is more valuable than gold then at some point it is going to show in the price whether you like it or not.

pearlmen

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Its no longer news that bitcoin is actually getting its independence from all sort of news or hear say and I think its really a good news that every one in the community should be happy about. Aside that its also sends a signal to the outside community that the volatility regarding bitcoin is actually being managed and gradually reliance can be placed upon it in other to move to the next level.

Mia Wallace

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Quote from: Nagadota on April 09, 2017, 07:15:46 PM

Bitcoin doesn't need to "defeat" the Chinese government. A lot of their supposed attempts at regulation before were just FUD, and now that they're seemingly actually trying to do something it's not significant.

What difference does it make if China and other countries try to regulate bitcoin,either people start investing heavily in it because the government have regulated and with China being the major players in the mining area as they did have some power but now things have changed as more countries are looking into the opportunity and technology.

Oilacris

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Quote from: btcdevil on April 11, 2017, 02:59:53 AM

Quote from: deisik on April 11, 2017, 02:02:42 AM

Quote from: Xenophoto on April 09, 2017, 01:34:54 PM

Quote from: bra4our on April 09, 2017, 10:57:52 AM

I doubt there is anything that any government can do to destroy bitcoins like the US government did to Liberty Reserve, am sure thats one of the reason why satoshi has remained anonymous so far . he doesn't want any charges of money laundering and tax evasion brought against him by any government.

How can it be money laundering or tax evasion when bitcoins isn't issued or regulated by any government? That's the one of the privileges you get if you use bitcoin. You don't have to pay any tax, you don't go to jail for hoarding money or so

You are either severely misinformed or ignorantly uninformed

While keeping and using Bitcoin in general cannot be considered money laundering (unless you deliberately go for that, of course), but it is certainly not so with taxes as you seem to assume. The fact that the government didn't create, doesn't issue or regulate Bitcoin doesn't in the least mean that it is somehow tax free altogether. The government likely didn't build your home either (provided you have one in the first place), but you still have to pay a property tax on it. With Bitcoin, you have to pay an income tax on your earnings that you obtain via Bitcoin operations. It is easy to avoid this tax, but that doesn't make Bitcoin less taxable and your tax evasion less illegal. Sorry to dispel your illusions on this account

Ya it is true that the users dont wanted to pay tax so he is just ignoring it or wantedly he is just commenting here but he knows that if their government states bitcoin as illegal then obviously he will be more worried if he is holding bitcoins in high stock. Some country are just ignoring the bitcoin but having the close watch on the transaction and uses of it and some country are making steps to curb bitcoin and its users.

I dont know whats on the mind on that dude above mentioning that theres no harm on using bitcoin when it comes to tax issues and yet government would be really have a close watch when tax is involved and it can really caught their attention when you do hoard lots of it.Its really suspicious but depend on how you gonna execute it and you are right some countries do really have serious matter when it comes to bitcoin but it they arent do care at all.

talkbitcoin

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Quote from: bitart on April 10, 2017, 04:38:05 PM

Quote from: talkbitcoin on April 10, 2017, 07:33:43 AM

Quote from: BitcoinPanther on April 10, 2017, 06:25:25 AM

Quote from: Yakamoto on April 09, 2017, 02:01:24 PM

I've never expected for the Chinese government to ever really be able to combat the "Bitcoin menace" as it would be, regardless of all the various things they try to implement to get their people from using it. There are simply too many people with too many different means of getting what they want, along with too big of a market to stop it at this point.

Bitcoin is no longer experiencing the same influence from China as it once did. There is still some influence China can exert, but it is much smaller than what it used to be.

Honestly, I never think that the Chinese government is suppressing Bitcoin or Bitcoin users and Bitcoin miners. If they are, they should have release and order of closure of all the Bitcoin mining farm in their country. But have we heard of that news? No. Simply because Chinese government just want to make things in order. They need to protect their interest and preserve their law on AML and KYC. The reason why they are only after the exchanges that transacts Bitcoin and other currencies.

exactly this. i have been saying this for a long time.
every time there is some small news in China about regulations, all the news media make that simple news into something horrible and make it so that Chinese government seem like a dictatorship set out to kill anybody who even thinks about bitcoin

and when you think about these new or get them from proper Chinese resources you can clearly see that the concern has always been about illegal activities done with bitcoin and an attempt to prevent it and nothing more.

so i say whoever that is talking about China and how they want to kill bitcoin is either very misunderstood person or they want to do something illegal and this prevents them.

OK, but if you don't have a trustable Chinese resource, you can't decide if the news are legit or not... Moreover, China is a very strict country, so you can just belive the news if they're a bit horrible. Things are different in China, so who knows...
I'm wondering what will be next after the BU thing that comes from China, but I'm more curious about Japan, since there are great news from there in connection with the everyday use of bitcoin. Japan is a bit different country, so we'll see.

there is 8btc that gives more logical and level headed news.
but even without a news source you can use your head and your own logic. look around you and see what business is working without a license? that is right, NO business that is legal and works with fiat.
now imagine you hear a business with 20 million something dollar money flow on daily basis is working without a license or anything else.
that business is bitcoin exchanges in China.

and i don't get why you bring BU into this so i won't comment on that.

Topic: Bitcoin defeats the Chinese government (Read 3563 times)