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Topic: Bitcoin: Disaster Proof? (Read 4758 times)

legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
March 19, 2011, 10:05:09 AM
#28
I think what could hurt it most, besides the loss of people using Bitcoin that died in the disaster, would be if the Internet got split into two or more significant non-interconnected groups for a prolonged period of time; any coin mined during the period is under the risk of eventually being wiped from existence when the Internet becomes one once again.



I wonder what would happen to Bitcoin if Earth went in the bullseye of a severe solar storm of the type that not only fries satelites but also lights on fire electrical, telephone etc wires closer to ground (some time ago telegraph wires went aflame under such an event)

If all of our electrical equipment ceased to work. I doubt there would be much of a world left, let alone bitcoin.

Police and authoritarian figures couldn't communicate. TVs couldn't sooth the public back to sleep. It would be mayhem.

I would expect many of them to have equipment that can withstand EMPs, directed energy weapons etc to a significantly greater extent than comercial and private devices.

Yes, they do.  So do I.  It's not particularly difficult to build a small faraday cage to store your ham radio in, while it's not in use.  And I learned the cheap & easy tricks to do that while in the USMC attached to a Communications Company
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)
March 19, 2011, 08:50:19 AM
#27
I think what could hurt it most, besides the loss of people using Bitcoin that died in the disaster, would be if the Internet got split into two or more significant non-interconnected groups for a prolonged period of time; any coin mined during the period is under the risk of eventually being wiped from existence when the Internet becomes one once again.



I wonder what would happen to Bitcoin if Earth went in the bullseye of a severe solar storm of the type that not only fries satelites but also lights on fire electrical, telephone etc wires closer to ground (some time ago telegraph wires went aflame under such an event)

If all of our electrical equipment ceased to work. I doubt there would be much of a world left, let alone bitcoin.

Police and authoritarian figures couldn't communicate. TVs couldn't sooth the public back to sleep. It would be mayhem.

I would expect many of them to have equipment that can withstand EMPs, directed energy weapons etc to a significantly greater extent than comercial and private devices.
member
Activity: 78
Merit: 10
March 19, 2011, 06:55:03 AM
#26
TVs couldn't sooth the public back to sleep.

Would there be some way to recharge the mobile to continue playing angry birds?
Solar Ipod chargers. They'll be used as barter currency.
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
March 19, 2011, 05:14:11 AM
#25
TVs couldn't sooth the public back to sleep.

Would there be some way to recharge the mobile to continue playing angry birds?
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 252
March 19, 2011, 04:12:46 AM
#24
I think what could hurt it most, besides the loss of people using Bitcoin that died in the disaster, would be if the Internet got split into two or more significant non-interconnected groups for a prolonged period of time; any coin mined during the period is under the risk of eventually being wiped from existence when the Internet becomes one once again.



I wonder what would happen to Bitcoin if Earth went in the bullseye of a severe solar storm of the type that not only fries satelites but also lights on fire electrical, telephone etc wires closer to ground (some time ago telegraph wires went aflame under such an event)

If all of our electrical equipment ceased to work. I doubt there would be much of a world left, let alone bitcoin.

Police and authoritarian figures couldn't communicate. TVs couldn't sooth the public back to sleep. It would be mayhem.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)
March 18, 2011, 04:00:24 PM
#23
I'm curious regarding whether the Moon would be under the coverage of the Internet all the time or if during periods of it's orbit and Earth's rotation (like when it's going over the ocean) it would stay "offline".
member
Activity: 78
Merit: 10
March 17, 2011, 05:52:26 AM
#22
Would Luna based machines talk directly with machines on Terra's ground or would it talk with Terran satelites, or even it's own satelite network that in turn would talk with Terran satelites?

Well a proper networking system on the moon would have both a direct (unreliable) connection through whatever medium (Light, Radio), and an indirect (satellites) connection. Routing would take the fastest route in which could vary, and bother types of connections would provide backup for each other just in case one fails.

This is more of a concern for internet on the moon rather than any sort of Bitcoin nodes, since Bitcoin uses the internet (or any available and compatable network) to work. As long as computers from both locations can communicate, then Bitcoin will work.


Just to cover all bases, I also will assume you mean specific bitcoin satellite nodes as well. In which the answer would still be both, as those nodes would most likely be networking satellites that run a bitcoin client (making money for the owner with transaction fees)
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)
March 17, 2011, 03:01:16 AM
#21
Would Luna based machines talk directly with machines on Terra's ground or would it talk with Terran satelites, or even it's own satelite network that in turn would talk with Terran satelites?
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
March 16, 2011, 08:51:28 PM
#20
The delay between the moon and the earth wouldn't be significant enough for a split and timekeeping would dictate that majority of blocks found would defaultly go to earth nodes. However moon transactions will still be processed by earth and moon nodes, making those still viable.
In that case, Luna is Bitcoin-compliant, but with limitations on mining. I suppose Lunans could either overcome the Earthlings' computing power or start their own block-chain if they didn't like the mining disadvantage... and then start bombarding the Earth with moon rocks.
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
March 16, 2011, 08:30:53 PM
#19
But how exactly does bitcoin handle a significant number of users split? There's theoretically 50% of the current bitcoins on each side, and each side does transactions and generates blocks and more bitcoins. After a certain amount of time, the two networks could connect.

Would people lose bitcoins in their wallets?
Would there be inflation due to duplicate blocks generated? (or absorb it into the final amount total until it reaches 21million? What if they reconnected when each network had 21million?)
Would each network reject each other and members of each network have NetworkA or NetworkB on their bitcoin transactions?

If the split lasts for less than 120 blocks (the generation maturation time), then there's no big problem. People in the shorter chain will lose generations from after the split, but all other transactions will be picked up by the new chain.

If it lasts much longer than 120 blocks, then there will be big problems. All transactions using coins from the recently-invalidated generations also become invalid. Potentially a large number of transactions could be reversed.

More info:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2071
member
Activity: 78
Merit: 10
March 16, 2011, 07:46:37 PM
#18
The delay between the moon and the earth wouldn't be significant enough for a split and timekeeping would dictate that majority of blocks found would defaultly go to earth nodes. However moon transactions will still be processed by earth and moon nodes, making those still viable.


But how exactly does bitcoin handle a significant number of users split? There's theoretically 50% of the current bitcoins on each side, and each side does transactions and generates blocks and more bitcoins. After a certain amount of time, the two networks could connect.

Would people lose bitcoins in their wallets?
Would there be inflation due to duplicate blocks generated? (or absorb it into the final amount total until it reaches 21million? What if they reconnected when each network had 21million?)
Would each network reject each other and members of each network have NetworkA or NetworkB on their bitcoin transactions?
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
March 16, 2011, 03:41:22 PM
#17
Ah, so by starting late, Lunar nodes are always less likely to find the block first. What if a Lunar nodes only process lunar transactions and give up on blocks after nine minutes and fifty-five seconds to start working on the next block?

The next block time can't be predicted. Limiting to local transactions doesn't help much in this case.

If the moon becomes heavily populated, it will probably start its own chain. These mooncoins would have a floating exchange rate with bitcoins, though the exchange rate would probably be pretty steady.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
March 16, 2011, 03:27:27 PM
#16
It would be possible to mine with 5-second latency, but no one would do it because it's a significant disadvantage.

The network would sort it out without problems.
Ah, so by starting late, Lunar nodes are always less likely to find the block first. What if a Lunar nodes only process lunar transactions and give up on blocks after nine minutes and fifty-five seconds to start working on the next block?
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
March 16, 2011, 03:06:15 PM
#15
It would be possible to mine with 5-second latency, but no one would do it because it's a significant disadvantage.

The network would sort it out without problems.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
March 16, 2011, 12:02:46 PM
#14
That on top of local network latency.
Let's assume a total delay of five seconds then, and that Lunar and Earthling nodes contribute equally. Suppose a Lunar node solves the same block that an Earthling node did 4 seconds ago. Will the problem not sort itself out before the mistaken Lunar node spends the award? How does the Bitcoin network presently handle the issue with terrestrial latency? Is there really a problem if the delay is well under ten minutes?
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
March 16, 2011, 10:35:47 AM
#13
A 2.5 second round trip delay is more than enough to put a node at a disadvantage.
So, Lunar nodes will continue working on a block for 2.5 seconds after an Earthing node has already solved it. Similarly, Earthling nodes will continue working on a block for 2.5 seconds after a Lunar node has already solved it. There's only a 2.5 second window for a rejected block to occur for nodes on either body. A disadvantage only occurs to the extent that one body has more computing power than the other. So, however unlikely, if Earthing nodes ever find themselves contributing less computing power than Lunar ones, the delay could put them at risk for rejected blocks. Of course, it's only a 2.5 second window. It seems that the problem would only rarely occur.

That on top of local network latency.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
March 16, 2011, 07:27:46 AM
#12
A 2.5 second round trip delay is more than enough to put a node at a disadvantage.
So, Lunar nodes will continue working on a block for 2.5 seconds after an Earthing node has already solved it. Similarly, Earthling nodes will continue working on a block for 2.5 seconds after a Lunar node has already solved it. There's only a 2.5 second window for a rejected block to occur for nodes on either body. A disadvantage only occurs to the extent that one body has more computing power than the other. So, however unlikely, if Earthing nodes ever find themselves contributing less computing power than Lunar ones, the delay could put them at risk for rejected blocks. Of course, it's only a 2.5 second window. It seems that the problem would only rarely occur.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
March 16, 2011, 02:30:46 AM
#11
It will some time before a node could exist on the Moon, and the SoL delay would mean that any generators on the Moon would be at a distinct disadvantage.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.41996

Luna is Bitcoin compliant.

A 2.5 second round trip delay is more than enough to put a node at a disadvantage.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
March 15, 2011, 03:42:40 PM
#10
It will some time before a node could exist on the Moon, and the SoL delay would mean that any generators on the Moon would be at a distinct disadvantage.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.41996

Luna is Bitcoin compliant.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1008
March 15, 2011, 03:07:25 PM
#9
If you Encrypted your wallet, then took the binary of the file as a representation of letters and numbers, and then printed that on paper, that would safeguard your BitCoins, but then you'll have to wait for the network to re-establish itself after the fallout...

You might also want to make sure at least a couple people have printed out the block chain ...and the bitcoin source code  ...and the source code to at least one OS (i.e. Linux) ...BIOS source code ...chip microcode ...hardware schematics ...oh, and paper isn't very durable so you might need to inscribe everything in stone tablets buried in your back yard.  Wink
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