Bitcoin energy consumption - unsustainable? - page 2.

lighpulsar07

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Quote from: Paranuatu on November 09, 2017, 02:35:27 AM

Currently, bitcoin network consumes 26 TWh a year or 250 kWh per single transaction and is growing at a rate of over 1% daily (according to this website https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption.)

250 kwh (single transaction!) is now roughly the same to to what an average home/household uses in a month.

Is this really sustainable?

If bitcoin should grow even more, how much power will be used just to run it?

i think is minimal since the every miner is mining in mining pool to mine a block so, the total energy consumed is distributed among the miners and besides the miners came from different parts of the world so, the energy costs is varying in every country and some miners are using solar energy to avoid huge electricity costs. In fairness they manage to calculate the energy consumption of bitcoin network very nice

Cazemiro

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I believe, that's will be a problem in the future, but BTC can change, being more efficient energetically, or use a sustainable energy. But in the future a change is necessary to increase the number of transactions, it is fact.

jercess

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Woah! I never imagined this has caused so much problem not only in our society but on the whole world! This is a very alarming issue and I hope that the state of every country will help this community if ever needed. It is just a sad truth that there are a lot of greedy miners out there who consumes so much energy and don't even realize the outcomes and the cost of what they are doing. Undecided

akija

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1% daily is very high rate . And I think if this rate grow like this , then the price of Btc also going to rise further .

In Long run I dont think such high rate is sustainable .

teamjk

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unless they power the network with solar energy, or fusion energy comes real
then the whole idea will decline as being not efficient.

all the cards in the world (visa , mastercard etc) operate at a fraction of the energy needed for bitcoin mining and even for validating the transactions (if and when mining finish)

Paranuatu

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Bitcoin holds 60% of marketcap, not all other coines are mined as heavily, Id say total energy consumption is about 40 TWh per year, similar to the state of New Zealand.

pnx17

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This is very worrying. What would the total energy consumption for all the cryptocoins and tokens? This and the fact that BTC is now considered high risk of a bubble, makes me want to decrease my exposure to cryptocurrencies.
The World's Biggest Bubbles - http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-07/worlds-largest-bubbles-ranked-algebris-investments

Klausi

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Quote from: magneto on November 09, 2017, 02:55:21 AM

Quote from: Paranuatu on November 09, 2017, 02:35:27 AM

Currently, bitcoin network consumes 26 TWh a year or 250 kWh per single transaction and is growing at a rate of over 1% daily (according to this website https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption.)

250 kwh (single transaction!) is now roughly the same to to what an average home/household uses in a month.

Is this really sustainable?

If bitcoin should grow even more, how much power will be used just to run it?

The most surprising stat here isn't really the twh or whatever but rather the 1% growth that is alarming. Right now it's still not an issue because of the fact that bitcoin is still in its early adoption phases, but it's definitely not going to be sustainable if bitcoin goes mainstream.

This has been discussed before but with no avail. The first PoS coin PPC has much decreased adoption, though, which probably means that right now, people don't sense the urgency.

Hopefully, we'll figure this out soon as a community.

I guess it was just all about calculations and for me even how the price will go mainstream, the power consumption of the blockchain network might not affect so well to be alarming. The miners equipment who helped the network to run smoothly had their good hardware and it's now having energy efficient capability to handle power losses, so we need not to be worried for it.

ranggawulung

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It seems to me that bitcoin is more expensive and the more it is already mined, the more difficult and energy-consuming it will be. Perhaps Segwit would unload this problem. But since it did not take place or was simply postponed, it remains for us to observe and earn on the growth of the rate of the Crypto-currency.

asdlolciterquit

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i have a question: is this possibile, in your opinions, convert in same way btc in PoS? or maybe find and develop a new algo a lot more efficient?

Paranuatu

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this is another obstacle preventing bitcoin from becoming a normal mode of payment, I think.

this decentralization is not as beneficial as it may seem, especially if it comes at this cost.

coinspam

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BTC uses a shit ton of energy. If it keeps going this way then BTC mining will be the biggest cause of even more global warning.

Paranuatu

member

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Quote from: dusty rhodes on November 09, 2017, 03:12:46 AM

soon these mining outfits will be adding solar then this wont be as big as an issue i think. thats what weed growers are doing.

I dont think this really sovles everything. And in fact, solar power is more expensive and mainly used in the developed countries.
The countries that electricity is the cheapest right now and most mining power is concentrated, use the dirties energy possible,

Bitcoin carbon output is really big.

dusty rhodes

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soon these mining outfits will be adding solar then this wont be as big as an issue i think. thats what weed growers are doing.

Opquar

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...wow. I knew energy consumption was a problem, but I didn't think it was this alarming. That 1% daily growth makes it completely unsustainable. There's so much money in bitcoin that the community is sure to find a solution though. We'll find a consensus algorithm that works for us soon enough.

buwaytress

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I do agree that energy consumption for Bitcoin mining is unsustainable - but we shouldn't make the false comparison of how expensive it is per transaction. The direct energy cost/tx model, if used across various currency or payment methods, was recently used to compare Bitcoin to Visa. But the inherent benefits of Bitcoin far outweight those of Visa and others: the security and privacy to me are the most obvious. The amount of control you have. Swipe a card or enter it and you can never really be sure of what you're spending and to whom. You never know when its data could be stolen and misused (it's definitely seen, tracked and recorded!).

Plus, the overheads for Bitcoin are significantly lower. Sure, mining operations are costly, but nothing compared to the infrastructure and human resource of Visa or others.

But to the point at hand - algorithm changes may very well happen to help address this, but it may be a very long time before that happens. My thinking is that mining cartels fear its effects on price and may once again feel they have a huge say in the matter.

Paranuatu

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there are 100 billion card transactions every year, and thats only POS credit/debit card, not counting all the trading transactions etc which are a multiple of that.
Bitcoin is right now at 100 million per year and uses 0,12% of world energy.
If it were 100 billion, that would mean 10% of world energy consumption just to replace card payments (at current consumption, the real figure would be much more).

magneto

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Quote from: Paranuatu on November 09, 2017, 02:35:27 AM

Currently, bitcoin network consumes 26 TWh a year or 250 kWh per single transaction and is growing at a rate of over 1% daily (according to this website https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption.)

250 kwh (single transaction!) is now roughly the same to to what an average home/household uses in a month.

Is this really sustainable?

If bitcoin should grow even more, how much power will be used just to run it?

The most surprising stat here isn't really the twh or whatever but rather the 1% growth that is alarming. Right now it's still not an issue because of the fact that bitcoin is still in its early adoption phases, but it's definitely not going to be sustainable if bitcoin goes mainstream.

This has been discussed before but with no avail. The first PoS coin PPC has much decreased adoption, though, which probably means that right now, people don't sense the urgency.

Hopefully, we'll figure this out soon as a community.

ZTRAdrian

newbie

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It's a real problem. Even as the mining community moves to more and more efficient ASICs the difficulty also keeps increasing. It's a real argument for moving to PoS but all the miners will resist since they have invested so much money already.

NUFCrichard

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Quote from: Paranuatu on November 09, 2017, 02:35:27 AM

Currently, bitcoin network consumes 26 TWh a year or 250 kWh per single transaction and is growing at a rate of over 1% daily (according to this website https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption.)

250 kwh (single transaction!) is now roughly the same to to what an average home/household uses in a month.

Is this really sustainable?

If bitcoin should grow even more, how much power will be used just to run it?

Wow, I had no idea that it was that bad! The worst part is that it could be run just as well on a few PCs, but it is just cycles of greed that force the miners to invest more and more or razor thin margins, so that they can get their Bitcoin.

I guess that improvements in efficiency will help flatten the curve, but I expect that it will still increase for a long time yet.

I wonder when the authorities will have something to say about the massive amount of wasted energy?

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