Bitcoin ETF Impact | Bitcointalksearch.org

AprilioMP

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Quote from: ? on Today at 05:08:12 AM

Now that multiple Bitcoin ETFs are live, do you guys think this will lead to more price stability, or will it bring more manipulation from institutional players? What's your take?

Unconsciously, the impact of Bitcoin spot ETFs feels more positive behind the latest ATH that has not changed. Previously, Bitcoin spot ETFs were like a huge flow that could not be stopped and had to be approved, which came not because of pressure but like a necessity.
The impact on prices, I think this article can help you understand it and I think it will make it easier for you to analyze on what basis Bitcoin Spot ETFs need to be approved.
https://www.investopedia.com/spot-bitcoin-etfs-8358373

ChiBitCTy

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I think there's no question it should help with price stability. A lot of clients I speak with really want bitcoin in their 401ks, which will never happen (outside of an attached brokerage account, which many plans do not allow for). So there area lot of people opening up IRAs simply to own bitcoin and they aren't doing a ton of trading of these ETFs, many people are simply buying it to hodl. So I expect that trend to continue.

aoluain

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Quote from: franky1 on Today at 08:20:07 AM

Quote from: ? on Today at 05:08:12 AM

Now that multiple Bitcoin ETFs are live, do you guys think this will lead to more price stability, or will it bring more manipulation from institutional players? What's your take?

stability=manipulation

bitcoin is naturally volatile.. when its stable then that is manipulation

for instance..
bitcoin mining can cost anything from $60k-$350k right now depending on region of planet
so there are many mining and making profit by selling.. and many who dont mine but are market buying as the discount compared to mining is immense
the price can and should swing widely

so the prices should naturally be wild.. yet when you see flat prices for days-weeks it means it is being manipulated to stay in a price zone

Yup - Doesnt Michael Saylor say that volatility is a "feature" of Bitcoin because it it tradable or
accessible 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year!

Quote from: ? on Today at 05:08:12 AM

Now that multiple Bitcoin ETFs are live, do you guys think this will lead to more price stability, or will it bring more manipulation from institutional players? What's your take?

Just thinking a bit abstract - maybe in the future, like the distant future if institutional investors
in the minority accumulate the vast majority of Bitcoin collectively and dont actually move/trade
it the market might become more stable - of course that would be to the detriment of Bitcoin.

So I guess we could also say that that would in a way be a sort of manipulation in itself?

PX-Z

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It will, it surely does. Once more ETFs happen to come, and these companies acquire more Bitcoin in their stash, then yes, that's the possible scenario. The more ETFs, the more it will increase these institutional investments, this also means greater market stability, so yes, ETF do more good than harm in Bitcoin.

Zaguru12

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Quote from: Smack That Ace on Today at 08:14:24 AM

If you think ETFs will help stabilize the price, it means manipulation has been greatly reduced because manipulation is a big cause of bitcoin volatility.

I think the opposite, adoption is higher than manipulation. Without ETFs, there wouldn't be billions of dollars pouring into the market and I don't think bitcoin would be as popular as it is today.

I agree on somethings here but have disagreements on most here, first I think it’s manipulation that makes bitcoin less volatile, before the whole ETF saga we all saw how explosive bitcoin was and how volatile bitcoin actually moves, right now market moves base on the buy or sell pressure other investors see from this institutions or whales.

As for the ETF effect on bitcoin, I can’t deny the fact that it has definitely bring in more demand or adoption since it’s approval as many who were basically not comfortable buying and holding by themselves actually got in through the spots ETF. But does it mean without bitcoin ETF we wouldn’t get such attention? I say No, because the bitcoin past trend or stats shows how it’s growing organically in demand without ETF, in fact over the last decade it seems to be the most popular asset prior to even ETF approval

Zoomic

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We all should agree that bitcoin is unpredictable and as such, anything can happen during the shortrun and longrun as well. The obvious fact is that bitcoin ETFs would definitely have some impacts on bitcoin's price, it could be short term stability and an increased manipulation in the longrun.

I said Short term stability because, Bitcoin ETF is another indirect way people can invest in bitcoin without have to deal with bitcoin directly. Since they would be dealing with traditional institutions directly, that direct effect this form of investment is supposed to have on bitcoin's demand and supply would reduce, thereby making bitcoin's price somehow stable, but for a short while because bitcoin is designed to be volatile.

But on the other hand, the manipulation may exist more among the institutional investors who have a significant control over large ETF holdings. Major sell-off or buying by this investors will impact the market greatly. So it is a two way thing, therefore we should expect any in an unpredictable market like bitcoin's market.

Akbarkoe

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Quote from: _act_ on Today at 05:51:58 AM

Only what I think about bitcoin ETF is that it brings more people to invest in bitcoin. It is an indirect means of bitcoin investment but the companies that provide the ETF will buy more bitcoin as their customers buy more of the ETF provided by the company. Making bitcoin demand to increase.

About it leading to manipulation, let us see what will happen. The better we are going to have good discussions about it. But I do not see how it can lead to manipulation.

Yes, that is a good thing, especially if the number of Bitcoin ETFs with real Bitcoin purchased by providers has 1:1 with the original Bitcoin, this will be very positive in the future, because if you look at the development of Adoption, there are indeed quite a few institutions entering Bitcoin slowly and many are still trying to enter Bitcoin to invest, and that is a natural thing because this is the initial gate for institutions to enter Bitcoin.

He said this is manipulation because institutions have media that have more money so they are able to manipulate news that has an impact on prices, things like what I think, maybe if we talk about money, no one can control the movement of Bitcoin prices because of its large market cap, but if they control the news to create panic and/or create Fomo, they can do it.

Reatim

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Quote from: _act_ on Today at 05:51:58 AM

Only what I think about bitcoin ETF is that it brings more people to invest in bitcoin. It is an indirect means of bitcoin investment but the companies that provide the ETF will buy more bitcoin as their customers buy more of the ETF provided by the company. Making bitcoin demand to increase.

etf is celebrated because everyone knows that it will bring huge exposure to bitcoin and therefore would lead to higher price increases i don’t really recommend buying bitcoin through etf but it does give other people the option and now more people are wanting to buy bitcoin

Quote

About it leading to manipulation, let us see what will happen. The better we are going to have good discussions about it. But I do not see how it can lead to manipulation.

i guess since etf companies would be holding huge amounts of bitcoin they may be able to do some manipulation

Solosanz

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Quote from: Smack That Ace on Today at 08:14:24 AM

If you think ETFs will help stabilize the price, it means manipulation has been greatly reduced because manipulation is a big cause of bitcoin volatility.

Manipulation will never go away and it is part of the financial markets. Every market is manipulated but Bitcoin is the most manipulated market because it is a free market. But with the approval of ETF, manipulation will be reduced a lot and that is why bitcoin becomes more stable.

I think the opposite, adoption is higher than manipulation. Without ETFs, there wouldn't be billions of dollars pouring into the market and I don't think bitcoin would be as popular as it is today.

How?

Let's say people hold 50%, CEX hold 25%, and government hold 25%, if the government sold all the coins, the price only will down 25%, it might down more if people and CEX choose to sell their coins.

But, what if people hold 5%, CEX hold 45% and government hold 50%, if the government sold all the coins, the price will down 50%, this is huge.

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Quote from: ? on Today at 05:08:12 AM

Now that multiple Bitcoin ETFs are live, do you guys think this will lead to more price stability, or will it bring more manipulation from institutional players? What's your take?

I think bitcoin etfs could introduce both scalability and new risks. With more institutional investors, we might see less extreme volatility as liquidity improves. However, institutions also have the power to manipulate prices through coordinated trades. It really depends on how regulations evolve and how retail investors react to these new financial products. I'll be watching closely to see it etfs actually help bitcoin adoption or just become another tool for big players to control the market.

SquirrelJulietGarden

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Quote from: Smack That Ace on Today at 08:14:24 AM

If you think ETFs will help stabilize the price, it means manipulation has been greatly reduced because manipulation is a big cause of bitcoin volatility.

Manipulation will never go away and it is part of the financial markets. Every market is manipulated but Bitcoin is the most manipulated market because it is a free market. But with the approval of ETF, manipulation will be reduced a lot and that is why bitcoin becomes more stable.

I think the opposite, adoption is higher than manipulation. Without ETFs, there wouldn't be billions of dollars pouring into the market and I don't think bitcoin would be as popular as it is today.

In all markets, there are market manipulations in one way or another, big or small in severity. If a market does not have market makers and market manipulations, it will be lack of momentum to move up and down, so it will be a very boring and likely dead market that won't be attractive to anyone, and new trading, investing capital will not pour into that market.

A dead market has no chance to everyone, and nobody wants it, so manipulations is very necessary for a lively opportunistic market.

franky1

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Quote from: ? on Today at 05:08:12 AM

Now that multiple Bitcoin ETFs are live, do you guys think this will lead to more price stability, or will it bring more manipulation from institutional players? What's your take?

stability=manipulation

bitcoin is naturally volatile.. when its stable then that is manipulation

for instance..
bitcoin mining can cost anything from $60k-$350k right now depending on region of planet
so there are many mining and making profit by selling.. and many who dont mine but are market buying as the discount compared to mining is immense
the price can and should swing widely

so the prices should naturally be wild.. yet when you see flat prices for days-weeks it means it is being manipulated to stay in a price zone

Smack That Ace

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Quote from: Solosanz on Today at 06:53:09 AM

It can be both.

Right now it lead the price more stable because there are people who like to own Bitcoin in ETF/fake version.

But, once centralized institutions own a lot Bitcoin, they can do whatever they want, manipulation is unavoidable.

My take is, the manipulation effect would be higher than the adoption, so better to not have the ETF version.

If you think ETFs will help stabilize the price, it means manipulation has been greatly reduced because manipulation is a big cause of bitcoin volatility.

Manipulation will never go away and it is part of the financial markets. Every market is manipulated but Bitcoin is the most manipulated market because it is a free market. But with the approval of ETF, manipulation will be reduced a lot and that is why bitcoin becomes more stable.

I think the opposite, adoption is higher than manipulation. Without ETFs, there wouldn't be billions of dollars pouring into the market and I don't think bitcoin would be as popular as it is today.

SquirrelJulietGarden

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Quote from: ? on Today at 05:08:12 AM

Now that multiple Bitcoin ETFs are live, do you guys think this will lead to more price stability, or will it bring more manipulation from institutional players? What's your take?

It can be effect from Bitcoin Spot ETFs and also bigger Bitcoin market cap.

Naturally with bigger market cap, it will be harder to manipulate the market, and we are going to see it with Bitcoin market. With Bitcoin Spot ETFs, there are new mass purchasing demand that plays important role to support Bitcoin price.

It shows in Bitcoin: Bull market correction drawdowns that are clearly less severe but are smaller than previous market cycles.

BenCodie

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It's going to be hard for anyone to give you a certain answer however here are some facts:
- ETF purchases rely on the institutions to buy the correlating net inflows/outflows on the spot markets.
- Institutions historically have not been 100% innocent entities (for example, BlackRock has allegedly been found to have been manipulating bitcoin in the past, which has come to light recently though has been rumored for much longer).
- Institutions are collecting on ETF trading fees (which ultimately drains liquidity from the Bitcoin market and instead profits the ETF creator).

Based on these facts, it's safe to say that institutions are and probably already have had negative impact on Bitcoin. Put shortly, there's no need for ETFs and everyone is better off using spot markets.

Solosanz

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It can be both.

Right now it lead the price more stable because there are people who like to own Bitcoin in ETF/fake version.

But, once centralized institutions own a lot Bitcoin, they can do whatever they want, manipulation is unavoidable.

My take is, the manipulation effect would be higher than the adoption, so better to not have the ETF version.

HeRetiK

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To me it seems like the crypto market is more heavily manipulated than the classical market, so in that regard I believe that Bitcoin ETFs should actually lessen the impact of market manipulators. Also enabling institutional investors should add further stability, with institutional investors being presumable less fickle than retail.

That being said, I do have mixed feelings about Bitcoin ETFs, but that's another story.

naira

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Quote from: ? on Today at 05:08:12 AM

Now that multiple Bitcoin ETFs are live, do you guys think this will lead to more price stability, or will it bring more manipulation from institutional players? What's your take?

Stability is clearly seen, there is a strong push since the approval of ETF which has succeeded in making market sentiment respond quite quickly. But it is also not free from manipulation because the more retail is attracted to release ownership to whales, the more opportunities for manipulation they can use as a weapon.

_act_

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Only what I think about bitcoin ETF is that it brings more people to invest in bitcoin. It is an indirect means of bitcoin investment but the companies that provide the ETF will buy more bitcoin as their customers buy more of the ETF provided by the company. Making bitcoin demand to increase.

About it leading to manipulation, let us see what will happen. The better we are going to have good discussions about it. But I do not see how it can lead to manipulation.

asriloni

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I do think Bitcoin ETFs are giving more price stability to the Bitcoin. Bitcoin also gets more exposure as many institutional investors showed off their bitcoin adoption, and spot ETF made them should have backed it with real coin.

ETFs adoption may be also attracting interest from people to reserve some portion from their 401k or IRA to the Bitcoin.

Topic: Bitcoin ETF Impact (Read 126 times)