Bitcoin ETF officially approved! | Bitcointalksearch.org

DooMAD

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Leave no FUD unchallenged

Quote from: pawel7777 on January 14, 2024, 07:25:10 PM

Quote from: tyz on January 12, 2024, 02:11:38 PM

$4.6 billion flowed into the already available Bitcoin ETFs funds on the first day. All the more strange that the price hardly moved upwards yesterday and even fell significantly today.

it's not like any money spent on buying spot ETFs will directly create a demand for bitcoins. It's more nuanced than that.

Yeah, it's not money flowing into Bitcoin, as such. The impact is less direct.

With exchanges, fiat goes in and bitcoins come out. Or bitcoins go in and fiat comes out. The impact on the market with this type of trading is usually pretty obvious.

But ETFs are different. The businesses running these ETFs take an amount of Bitcoin, put a little-fence around it, assure traditional investors those coins aren't going anywhere and then issue shares that represent those coins. Fiat goes in and shares come out. Shares go in and fiat comes out. Bitcoins don't move. So yes, far more nuanced in terms of influence on the market.

Some people are also forgetting that ETFs have existed for some time now. Just not in the US. They're late to the party. Those existing ETFs didn't get much attention and their impact also didn't seem particularly obvious, so I don't know why the US ones are such a big song and dance.

pawel7777

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Quote from: tyz on January 12, 2024, 02:11:38 PM

According to a Reuters article[1] from today, $4.6 billion flowed into the already available Bitcoin ETFs funds on the first day. All the more strange that the price hardly moved upwards yesterday and even fell significantly today. It seems as if the speculators are acting according to the motto: buy the rumors, sell the news.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/spot-bitcoin-etfs-start-trading-big-boost-crypto-industry-2024-01-11/

Thanks for the link.
It's not like there was an inflow of $4.6 billion to the Bitcoin market in one day. If that was true, there was no way the price would not go sharply up. That amount is the total volume of all ETFs trades, with the Grayscale being the dominating one. Grayscale were approved to convert their existing bitcoin trust into an ETF, so they've already held bitcoins that are now tradeable as an ETF and it's not like any money spent on buying spot ETFs will directly create a demand for bitcoins. It's more nuanced than that.

Mauser

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Quote from: shield132 on January 10, 2024, 05:12:15 PM

Bitcoin ETFs are officially approved - https://www.sec.gov/files/rules/sro/nysearca/2024/fg-89shlq.pdf

That is awesome news and my outlook for 2024 becomes better and better. After the approval of ETFs there should be now a large inflow of institutional money into the bitcoin market. It will be easier than ever to get crypto exposure for investor that have no previous knowledge. Once all the large companies created their own ETFs there won't be many people left that can argue against the success of Bitcoin. This will be another big step in making Bitcoin another well established currency. Together with the halving coming up this year I have the feeling we are going to see a new ATH in 2024. Let's hope for the best.

tyz

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Quote from: pawel7777 on January 12, 2024, 01:12:14 PM

Quote from: goldkingcoiner on January 11, 2024, 04:55:08 PM

Approved is fine and dandy, but until we see some trading, we will not see the results of this approval (other than the speculative side, of course). So thats begs the question of when will the trading finally be unlocked?

Isn't it already "unlocked"? I think I've read somewhere that the Blacrock ETF is already available on some platforms or with some brokers.
The speculative side is already exhausted. If the price doesn't start climbing up shortly, we'll probably see a drop as all those who "bought the rumours to sell the news" will get a signal that there's no more to be earned and that it's time to sell.
We might be actually witnessing this already, as the price dropped to around $43.5k. Hopefully the demand for the ETFs can turn this around soon.

According to a Reuters article[1] from today, $4.6 billion flowed into the already available Bitcoin ETFs funds on the first day. All the more strange that the price hardly moved upwards yesterday and even fell significantly today. It seems as if the speculators are acting according to the motto: buy the rumors, sell the news.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/spot-bitcoin-etfs-start-trading-big-boost-crypto-industry-2024-01-11/

pawel7777

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Quote from: goldkingcoiner on January 11, 2024, 04:55:08 PM

Approved is fine and dandy, but until we see some trading, we will not see the results of this approval (other than the speculative side, of course). So thats begs the question of when will the trading finally be unlocked?

Isn't it already "unlocked"? I think I've read somewhere that the Blacrock ETF is already available on some platforms or with some brokers.
The speculative side is already exhausted. If the price doesn't start climbing up shortly, we'll probably see a drop as all those who "bought the rumours to sell the news" will get a signal that there's no more to be earned and that it's time to sell.
We might be actually witnessing this already, as the price dropped to around $43.5k. Hopefully the demand for the ETFs can turn this around soon.

franky1

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Quote from: Darker45 on January 11, 2024, 10:33:55 PM

Warren isn't as powerful as she may seem to some. Even lobbyists in congress are more powerful than her. If she is indeed a boss to Gensler, then she is a weak boss. Gensler voted in favor of spot ETF approval not just of one but all 11 of them. His final vote could have prevented all of them.

if you read what i said
you would see that gensler didnt push extra rules to appease warren..
however he did recite her rhetoric as a footnote. which was to not go full native and appearing to cut his strings of his puppet master of the laws he has to follow brought in by committees the puppetmaster is part of.

i never said he went full warren and added in all warrens drafts into ETF requirements
i simply said that he secured his job continuance by reciting her mantra to not appear as going against her. thus still kissing the ring to save face

there is a difference between a knight that fights for his king by slaying the villagers.. vs a jester that keeps his head by kissing the ring and entertaining the king, repeating the kings remarks

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Quote from: Cryptomultiplier on January 11, 2024, 05:22:33 PM

Quote from: Agbe on January 11, 2024, 10:58:34 AM

Quote from: shield132 on January 10, 2024, 05:12:15 PM

Bitcoin ETFs are officially approved - https://www.sec.gov/files/rules/sro/nysearca/2024/fg-89shlq.pdf

Op revisit your link and drop the correct link. Though this is a good news to everyone here who are investing in Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies at large. We thank God for this wonderful news. Even the article I read is predicting that ETF will boost Bitcoin to climb $50 billions to $100 billions US dollar. And now everyone in the ecosystem is happy to hear the news but will Bitcoin come down again for the poor to buy again? That should be an another question to answer. Because as it is now the rich people in the world will visit Bitcoin and invest heavily that will make Bitcoin to forget the poor. In 2022 Bitcoin price was on $16,000 and the way I am looking this matter right now, I don't think the price of Bitcoin will come down again though I don't know what will happen in the future but my fear here is that the rich people might not allow the price to come down again. Let see what will happen in the future if Bitcoin.

Perhaps Bitcoin ain't for the poor afterall, but it would mean that the originator of the cryptocurrencies' idea or Bitcoin originator didn't think about the divide within the classes of a society when crypto implementation began. I doubt though because even the poor can afford to buy less amounts than before and hold, which wouldn't be up to a whole coin, that's Sats, but would amount to much in the future.

Finally the ETF approval is one joy too many to recount for Bitcoin enthusiast all around the world. We getting noticed for sure.

Bitcoin is for everyone, including the poor, it has never discriminated against class or skin color. Bitcoin has been around for 15 years, and for the past 15 years people who believe in it have been able to buy it very cheaply. So don't try to blame bitcoin when poor people didn't buy it cheap and now say it's not for poor people. To me, if poor people still don't own bitcoin in the last 15 years, it's their fault, not bitcoin's fault.
Although the value of bitcoin today is very high compared to many years ago, that does not mean that poor people cannot own bitcoin, they still have a chance before it is too late and the decision is up to them.

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Quote from: franky1 on January 11, 2024, 08:17:03 PM

Quote from: Darker45 on January 11, 2024, 08:07:31 PM

I don't share it. It's not as if Elizabeth Warren is some kind of boss to Gensler. There's a power play and Warren is but a single player. She's not the most powerful there is in the game that Gensler had to please. Gensler's job isn't dependent on Warren's pleasure. Elizabeth's ring needs kissing but it's not the shiniest of them all. Larry Fink's ring is a lot more powerful. So whether Gensler personally favors Bitcoin or not isn't the point. He had to vote for its approval because the kingmakers ordered so.

E warren has been continuously been trying to rewrite the financial laws which SEC have to manage under. thus if she writes "jump" and it becomes law. the SEC then has to jump

Quote

~snip~

see how many strings ABOVE the SEC she can pull via her 'committee' involvement

the SEC is not just about "running a clean business" its about auditing businesses for tax too and clamping down on tax evasion
EG the "in-cash" vs "in-kind" ETF discussions were literally about taxes

The senator has been barking against Bitcoin, but how many anti-Bitcoin bills has she written and filed already? How many of these bills are passed into law? It's not as if Warren, despite her influence, is running congress all by herself. If she files a bill directing the SEC to kiss her ass, would it pass into law? It might not. Even if passed, it could be challenged for many reasons, even in the courts if necessary.

And with all her power over the SEC, overall influence, and clear strong stand against Bitcoin, where did it bring her? Did it even stop the SEC from approving those spot ETF applications? She must have been fuming now. She even ran to Twitter to say that the SEC is wrong in its decision. Did it help her cause? Did it change a thing? No. She's helpless.

Warren isn't as powerful as she may seem to some. Even lobbyists in congress are more powerful than her. If she is indeed a boss to Gensler, then she is a weak boss. Gensler voted in favor of spot ETF approval not just of one but all 11 of them. His final vote could have prevented all of them.

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Quote from: Darker45 on January 11, 2024, 08:07:31 PM

I don't share it. It's not as if Elizabeth Warren is some kind of boss to Gensler. There's a power play and Warren is but a single player. She's not the most powerful there is in the game that Gensler had to please. Gensler's job isn't dependent on Warren's pleasure. Elizabeth's ring needs kissing but it's not the shiniest of them all. Larry Fink's ring is a lot more powerful. So whether Gensler personally favors Bitcoin or not isn't the point. He had to vote for its approval because the kingmakers ordered so.

E warren has been continuously been trying to rewrite the financial laws which SEC have to manage under. thus if she writes "jump" and it becomes law. the SEC then has to jump

Quote

Committee on Banking, Housing, & Urban Affairs

As a member of the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, Senator Warren works on legislation related to financial services and the economy, housing, urban development, and other issues, and participates in oversight of federal regulatory agencies.
Subcommittee Assignments:

   Chair, Subcommittee on Economic Policy
   Member, Subcommittee on Financial Institutions and Consumer Protection
Member, Subcommittee on Securities, Insurance, and Investment

Committee on Finance

As a member of the Senate Committee on Finance, Senator Warren works on policies concerning federal tax and revenue, including oversight of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). She prioritizes reforms like passing a wealth tax, improving our trade policies, expanding Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare, bringing down drug prices, advancing racial equity, and better enforcing our tax laws.
Subcommittee Assignments:

   Member, Subcommittee on Health Care
   Member, Subcommittee on Social Security, Pensions, and Family Policy
Member, Subcommittee on Taxation and IRS Oversight

see how many strings ABOVE the SEC she can pull via her 'committee' involvement

the SEC is not just about "running a clean business" its about auditing businesses for tax too and clamping down on tax evasion
EG the "in-cash" vs "in-kind" ETF discussions were literally about taxes

Darker45

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Quote from: philipma1957 on January 10, 2024, 10:25:28 PM

Quote from: franky1 on January 10, 2024, 10:23:43 PM

Quote from: thecodebear on January 10, 2024, 10:04:14 PM

Quote from: Fundamentals Of on January 10, 2024, 09:37:38 PM

Quote from: DooMAD on January 10, 2024, 06:37:00 PM

~snip~

my theory
gensler likes bitcoin. in previous years he even taught it at MIT

however politically. he has to save his job so with the likes of Elizabeth Warren and her anti-bitcoin crusade. he has to kiss the ring and call bitcoin out for the risks... whilst legally he let the ETF pass

remember for years he has been saying that businesses need to regulate(kiss the warren ring) but has not been setting rules of regulation (which bitcoiners dont want rules)

so he has actually helped us before by not setting rules and letting businesses run without setting too high a goalpost

him saying things like how bitcoin ETF is not insured (meaning he didnt add a goal post min standard)
him saying "Further, existing rules and standards of conduct will apply to the purchase and sale of the approved ETPs. "
again not moving the goal post higher
shows he is not pushing for new laws for crypto specifically. and instead is accepting bitcoin ETF under the same landscape as fiat ETF

yes he washes those sentances with repeats of elizabeth warrens mantra. but i feel thats just protecting his job and kissing the ring

this is a very good guess

I don't share it. It's not as if Elizabeth Warren is some kind of boss to Gensler. There's a power play and Warren is but a single player. She's not the most powerful there is in the game that Gensler had to please. Gensler's job isn't dependent on Warren's pleasure. Elizabeth's ring needs kissing but it's not the shiniest of them all. Larry Fink's ring is a lot more powerful. So whether Gensler personally favors Bitcoin or not isn't the point. He had to vote for its approval because the kingmakers ordered so.

Cryptomultiplier

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Quote from: Agbe on January 11, 2024, 10:58:34 AM

Quote from: shield132 on January 10, 2024, 05:12:15 PM

Bitcoin ETFs are officially approved - https://www.sec.gov/files/rules/sro/nysearca/2024/fg-89shlq.pdf

Op revisit your link and drop the correct link. Though this is a good news to everyone here who are investing in Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies at large. We thank God for this wonderful news. Even the article I read is predicting that ETF will boost Bitcoin to climb $50 billions to $100 billions US dollar. And now everyone in the ecosystem is happy to hear the news but will Bitcoin come down again for the poor to buy again? That should be an another question to answer. Because as it is now the rich people in the world will visit Bitcoin and invest heavily that will make Bitcoin to forget the poor. In 2022 Bitcoin price was on $16,000 and the way I am looking this matter right now, I don't think the price of Bitcoin will come down again though I don't know what will happen in the future but my fear here is that the rich people might not allow the price to come down again. Let see what will happen in the future if Bitcoin.

Perhaps Bitcoin ain't for the poor afterall, but it would mean that the originator of the cryptocurrencies' idea or Bitcoin originator didn't think about the divide within the classes of a society when crypto implementation began. I doubt though because even the poor can afford to buy less amounts than before and hold, which wouldn't be up to a whole coin, that's Sats, but would amount to much in the future.

Finally the ETF approval is one joy too many to recount for Bitcoin enthusiast all around the world. We getting noticed for sure.

boyptc

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Quote from: 0t3p0t on January 10, 2024, 10:29:27 PM

Quote from: boyptc on January 10, 2024, 06:48:41 PM

Now the rich are on the game. Are we going to be rich as well as their money will flow and come to us too?

I just hope that SEC will never post another update about that their website and approvals have been hacked by somebody and just modified it.

Will wait for the impact of this on the market as it's not that impactful as of the moment.

Rich or poor as long as we have Bitcoins on our wallet there will be a higher chance that it's value might double.

No poor will be on the media if they enter on this game and that's why it's always the rich that gets the highlight so if you say that rich or poor, I disagree but you're right about as long as we have holdings then that's what matters.

Quote from: 0t3p0t on January 10, 2024, 10:29:27 PM

Yeah this is quiet common on the internet space even before. If this is true then it has negative effects on the current status of Bitcoin.

Yeah I am excited to hear and see this approval on the local television news and it's impact on the price of Bitcoin.

A day has passed and it seems that no reversal with the decision through basic Twitter common reasoning of hacks. That's definitely more than the good news we've heard yesterday. Cheesy

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Approved is fine and dandy, but until we see some trading, we will not see the results of this approval (other than the speculative side, of course). So thats begs the question of when will the trading finally be unlocked? Is there any kind of deadlines or information from the institutional investors who filed for the Bitcoin ETf and got approved? I see a lot of chances for market manipulation. We have seen such obvious manipulation with SEC FUD and FOMO over the last weeks (remember Matrixport?). To be honest, I completely expect to see (more) insider trading and FUD over the next weeks. The ETF unlocking event might just be another tool they use to shift the market in their favor.

Antotena

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Quote from: shield132 on January 10, 2024, 05:12:15 PM

Bitcoin ETFs are officially approved - https://www.sec.gov/files/rules/sro/nysearca/2024/fg-89shlq.pdf

After all the anti crypto and the Bitcoin bully Gary Gensler, he was among the people that voted yes for Bitcoin ETF approval and that made me question his actions since the time he started the chairman of SEC. He never for once see any good side of crypto for once, it's scams and fraud everyday even the time bitcoin get many credit from different places but it's good that he gave the approval but on a second thought, did he has a choice? If he doesn't, the court will do it and he can't win against this companies.

Now that the much anticipated ETF bitcoin has been approved, we can now feast for institutional investors to come and buy the little available bitcoin. The action of this approval has not really go as I expected or is it because of what happened a day when SecGov X account was hacked? I have so many doubts; the market moves some hours ago and it was corrected immediately. I don't understand what is happening behind that movement.

DooMAD

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Quote from: Wakate on January 11, 2024, 03:58:16 PM

It is mainly for people who does not want to take the risk of seeing the price of Bitcoin falling and the profits going down.
I would rather hold really Bitcoin than to put or invest in Bitcoin ETF. This is one of the ways to control the price of Bitcoin and we should be ready to the manipulation of the market by the time everything commence.
There are investors that wouldn't want to take any risk at all and there option would be putting their money on ETF so that when could keep getting profits without any risk involved.

... No?

Institutional investors are still susceptible to price movements buying via ETF. There's just as much risk in terms of price volatility. They're merely foregoing the benefits of financial sovereignty and censorship resistance in favour of regulatory acceptance and some potential clarity around tax reporting. Not a worthwhile trade in my view.

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Quote from: aoluain on January 11, 2024, 03:02:25 PM

Quote from: DooMAD on January 11, 2024, 02:04:35 PM

Quote from: peaky-btc4 on January 11, 2024, 09:55:31 AM

Now that the ETFs have approval, which one are we piling into?

By "we", I very much doubt that's going to be a particularly large collective around here.

Using myself as an example:

a) I'm not a yank
b) I can't be arsed speaking to a broker
c) I'd rather hold actual BTC and not these IOUs that supposedly represent BTC

And I suspect many others here will be in a similar position. Each to their own, though.

Absolutely with you, ETF's are for those wealthy people who dont want to learn
about Bitcoin, dont want to get involved with seed phrases, passwords and
connecting hardware wallets but would much prefer to call their broker and send funds.

I'm not interested in any type of Bitcoin which I cannot take custody of but yea there are
people who will be happy to use these ETF's.

It is mainly for people who does not want to take the risk of seeing the price of Bitcoin falling and the profits going down.
I would rather hold really Bitcoin than to put or invest in Bitcoin ETF. This is one of the ways to control the price of Bitcoin and we should be ready to the manipulation of the market by the time everything commence.
There are investors that wouldn't want to take any risk at all and there option would be putting their money on ETF so that when could keep getting profits without any risk involved. Even the price of Bitcoin would easily be controlled to their own benefits which might be against our wish.

aoluain

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Quote from: DooMAD on January 11, 2024, 02:04:35 PM

Quote from: peaky-btc4 on January 11, 2024, 09:55:31 AM

Now that the ETFs have approval, which one are we piling into?

By "we", I very much doubt that's going to be a particularly large collective around here.

Using myself as an example:

a) I'm not a yank
b) I can't be arsed speaking to a broker
c) I'd rather hold actual BTC and not these IOUs that supposedly represent BTC

And I suspect many others here will be in a similar position. Each to their own, though.

Absolutely with you, ETF's are for those wealthy people who dont want to learn
about Bitcoin, dont want to get involved with seed phrases, passwords and
connecting hardware wallets but would much prefer to call their broker and send funds.

I'm not interested in any type of Bitcoin which I cannot take custody of but yea there are
people who will be happy to use these ETF's.

aylabadia05

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Quote from: peaky-btc4 on January 11, 2024, 04:25:15 AM

This may not be normal as bitcoin ETFs should be able to bring more money into the market which then causes prices to increase drastically - but it may take some time for this news to be confirmed. If this news is true - then I think the market is really going to party in the next little while. Let's wait and see how he reacts.

It is official that the Bitcoin spot ETF has been approved by the SEC.
Market conditions after this agreement cannot mean that the price of Bitcoin will immediately increase drastically like the price of $44k to $70k. The market reaction will be different after there is the latest news, whether positive or negative news.
Waiting for how the market will look in the future after the SEC approves is the right action and we continue to do what we usually do to own Bitcoin with the usual methods. Even if necessary, increase it further.

tyz

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Quote from: peaky-btc4 on January 11, 2024, 04:25:15 AM

This may not be normal as bitcoin ETFs should be able to bring more money into the market which then causes prices to increase drastically - but it may take some time for this news to be confirmed. If this news is true - then I think the market is really going to party in the next little while. Let's wait and see how he reacts.

What many people don't consider and what I miss in the discussion when it comes to this topic. A Bitcoin ETF that bets on rising prices will be accompanied by one that bets on falling prices. It will therefore become easier to short Bitcoin on a large scale than it has happened in the past, which could also lead to more volatility overall and, in bear phases, to greater price collapses for Bitcoin. It has its upsides and downsides.

DooMAD

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Quote from: peaky-btc4 on January 11, 2024, 09:55:31 AM

Now that the ETFs have approval, which one are we piling into?

By "we", I very much doubt that's going to be a particularly large collective around here.

Using myself as an example:

a) I'm not a yank
b) I can't be arsed speaking to a broker
c) I'd rather hold actual BTC and not these IOUs that supposedly represent BTC

And I suspect many others here will be in a similar position. Each to their own, though.

Topic: Bitcoin ETF officially approved! (Read 656 times)