Bitcoin ETF this time? | Bitcointalksearch.org

Eugenar

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Quote from: metallica101 on October 08, 2019, 12:40:13 AM

The SEC is out of time, and it needs to decide what to do with Bitwise's BTC ETF proposal by October 13th. Now, Bitcoin has seen a significant price improvement this year, and in the last few years, we have got custodians, Bakkt, and similar things. Are ETFs going to be next? And if the decision does end up being positive, is it going to have an impact on the price?

Why don't we rely on the current market trading patterns that we are doing daily? I think the needs to establish ETF isn't necessary as it was better to be applied on stocks not in cryptocurrencies because we can actually gain our profits, unlike through the ETF that the ownership from the profits is divided into shares. In order to take advantage of the market, we should better rely on our trading strategies to always win in the market.

jarhed

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Quote from: crossabdd on October 09, 2019, 06:21:45 PM

today I got a message from the telegram group, whether true or not, that the ETF was denied a bitwise proposal. and this news attach a PDF document. if that is true, I see that the price of bitcoin is going up, so the ETF decision has no effect on the price of bitcoin. because today the graphs and patterns of bitcoin are showing a very strong rise. if that had an effect, I think the falling price would not be more than - $ 500.

The price of Bitcoin is already low now, I think that it will definitely not fall to 7000 dollars. And the expansion of Bitcoin’s infrastructure is normal. I think that in the next year we will see a price of 15,000 dollars and the ETF yield.

crossabdd

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today I got a message from the telegram group, whether true or not, that the ETF was denied a bitwise proposal. and this news attach a PDF document. if that is true, I see that the price of bitcoin is going up, so the ETF decision has no effect on the price of bitcoin. because today the graphs and patterns of bitcoin are showing a very strong rise. if that had an effect, I think the falling price would not be more than - $ 500.

gentlemand

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Quote from: jameshugo17 on October 09, 2019, 06:12:52 PM

What kind of policy is the SEC following? I still can't figure this out.

The same policy they've always followed. Their power to approve a product exists because they can police the market it'll operate in. Most ETFs run only in long established US markets that they have complete oversight of. They can reach and nail anyone who is proven to be acting nefariously.

You can't do that with Bitcoin. It's a market that runs 24/7 worldwide on largely unregulated exchanges. And many of those exchanges will be raping customers, faking volume, front running and more.

The whole thing will have to be massively cleared up before they'd even think of considering it and that may never happen.

jameshugo17

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What kind of policy is the SEC following? I still can't figure this out. In the past, SEC news was closely followed. So many negative news came. The market has now gained resistance. Negative news doesn't affect that much.

samcrypto

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Quote from: metallica101 on October 08, 2019, 12:40:13 AM

The SEC is out of time, and it needs to decide what to do with Bitwise's BTC ETF proposal by October 13th. Now, Bitcoin has seen a significant price improvement this year, and in the last few years, we have got custodians, Bakkt, and similar things. Are ETFs going to be next? And if the decision does end up being positive, is it going to have an impact on the price?

Three more days and we will hear their decision and I hope not to be disappointed because they did that many times before. If the SEC made a good decision in favor to bitcoin then we can expect a small impact on the price movement and hoping that it will be the start of the pump, bitcoin will end on a high notes this year more good news.

bustedsynx

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Quote from: gentlemand on October 09, 2019, 05:42:34 PM

Quote from: bustedsynx on October 09, 2019, 05:38:11 PM

As expected... Now, we will see if this rise in price to $8,600 from $7,700 included a hype for Bitwise ETF. No dumping will confirm all this ETF nonsense don't matter at all.

I'd be really amazed if anyone was expecting an approval or even knew about this particular one. It's an idea that's faded away. I'm not sure what it would take to get people excited again but it certainly wasn't this. The default expectation is now a big fat no which is fine with me. It's the correct one.

It is the default expectation and I would like to see some traders try to short the news so we could retest some support prices below the current price. If it doesn't dump much, I'm guessing this 'might' be the accumulation phase for the May 2020 halving.

gentlemand

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Quote from: bustedsynx on October 09, 2019, 05:38:11 PM

As expected... Now, we will see if this rise in price to $8,600 from $7,700 included a hype for Bitwise ETF. No dumping will confirm all this ETF nonsense don't matter at all.

I'd be really amazed if anyone was expecting an approval or even knew about this particular one. It's an idea that's faded away. I'm not sure what it would take to get people excited again but it certainly wasn't this. The default expectation is now a big fat no which is fine with me. It's the correct one.

Quote from: Japinat on October 09, 2019, 05:38:27 PM

Hard to please SEC.

They should be hard to please. Why should they cut such a shonky and amateurish market some slack?

Japinat

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Quote from: gentlemand on October 09, 2019, 05:32:58 PM

https://www.coindesk.com/sec-rejects-bitwises-latest-bitcoin-etf-proposal

The Bitwise ETF proposal has been rejected.

https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/nysearca/2019/34-87267.pdf

The same old reason again. No one can guarantee a market free of manipulation. This goes for all of them and will probably go for all of them forever. Back to sleep, kids.

Hard to please SEC, they keep rejecting and delaying, hopefully its not the reason why the market has slightly recovered because with that news, we might see some downfall again since it was rejected. Getting approval now is like a mission impossible, but there's a positive side also as there's a little hype on ETF now and if there's a little effect on the market on news like this and we might see a big pump when we see an approval soon from different application.

bustedsynx

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Quote from: gentlemand on October 09, 2019, 05:32:58 PM

https://www.coindesk.com/sec-rejects-bitwises-latest-bitcoin-etf-proposal

The Bitwise ETF proposal has been rejected.

https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/nysearca/2019/34-87267.pdf

The same old reason again. No one can guarantee a market free of manipulation. This goes for all of them and will probably go for all of them forever. Back to sleep, kids.

As expected... Now, we will see if this rise in price to $8,600 from $7,700 included a hype for Bitwise ETF. No dumping will confirm all this ETF nonsense don't matter at all.

gentlemand

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https://www.coindesk.com/sec-rejects-bitwises-latest-bitcoin-etf-proposal

The Bitwise ETF proposal has been rejected.

https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/nysearca/2019/34-87267.pdf

The same old reason again. No one can guarantee a market free of manipulation. This goes for all of them and will probably go for all of them forever. Back to sleep, kids.

Sancho18

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Sancho

Personally, I’m pretty tired of all this crush of water in the mortar about all these endless postponements of the decision about the ETF. I guess I'm too well-educated to just say SEC "go f*ck yourself" or something like that. You can’t win - try to lead or lose, everything is simple. I have a much prettier position in Switzerland, where custodial services and supply futures are launched without unnecessary bureaucratic delays.

jseverson

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I honestly don't think this will happen, especially not when yet another lawsuit is filed against Bitfinex, alleging that it manipulated the price of Bitcoin and basically the entire crypto market:

Quote from: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.524076/gov.uscourts.nysd.524076.1.0.pdf

In other words, Tether and Bitfinex purchase bitcoin with fake USDT
to draw in momentum investors then cash out by selling it to them for real U.S.
dollars.

Market manipulation seems to have been a long-standing issue for SEC's approval, and I don't think they'll ever be satisfied until issues like this are ironed out.

vladimirhf

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Quote from: dothebeats on October 08, 2019, 12:30:51 PM

Another hype train for nothing in the making, I guess? ETFs have proven to be the most hyped thing in the bitcoin ecosystem yet literally adds in no weight or positive impact whatsoever in the whole scene. It will not get approved no matter how huge the public interest is, nor how hard the lobbyists work in order to get it done. IMO we don't need ETFs in the ecosystem. We already have established platforms that does the normal trading and other spicy stuff ETFs could offer (though in a somewhat different approach).

Agree. They give more possibilities to the whales to play complex strategies to make profits from a bleeding market. Could be more likely to bring the prices down.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: BitHodler on October 08, 2019, 08:12:57 AM

I don't see why people still care about it after Bakkt being such a fail. Vaneck has launched a trust not that long ago, and it is a fail as well. Based on these institutions not generating volume, how well do you think an ETF would do?

An ETF would be more accessible. For instance, average folks would have access through mainstream brokers -- probably for cheap, flat fees. It could also be packaged for IRA and pension investment at low cost. Years down the road, it could even be an option in your employer-provided 401(k) plan.

By comparison, Bakkt and the Vaneck trust are for institutional investors only. I also don't think futures contracts are nearly as marketable as a long term investment.

Quote from: BitHodler on October 08, 2019, 08:12:57 AM

The only successful institution so far is CME with tens of thousands worth of BTC traded every day.... downside is that these are cash settled contracts and not actual BTC, so there is no positive impact on the market.

The CME market gradually built up that volume over the last couple years. Bakkt could follow a similar route.

mazdafunsun

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Noone is expecting for it to be accepted and the market would be very surprised if it would be accepted . Furthermore nothing has chnaged since the first denial for ETF . The same problems are still there, no regulations regarding crypto trading has been introduced that would impact SEC decision now.

DatKing

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I hope Bitcoin ETF won't be like Bakkt. If Bitcoin ETF is confirmed, it can take Bitcoin price back to at least 10k dollars I think. But I won't expect a bull-run impact by Bitcoin ETF.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: andreibi on October 08, 2019, 01:18:29 PM

Anyway, I don't know about the sentiment of forum members here but in crypto Twitter, the consensus is 68% believe the ETF will be denied. So, there is no hype to speak of. Any positive ETF development or update is not yet priced in.

after 2+ years of endless rejections, the market has obviously priced in yet another one. anything less would be irrational, especially considering what the SEC chair said a few weeks ago:

Quote

In November the chairman said concerns around price manipulation were a key holdup for the financial product’s green light, alongside questions such as how custody operates.

On Monday, Clayton reiterated these concerns, saying:

“An even harder question given that they trade on largely unregulated exchanges is how can we be sure that those prices aren’t subject to significant manipulation? … People needed to answer these hard questions for us to be comfortable that this was the appropriate kind of product.”

The SEC’s questions are “not trivial,” Clayton added.

if by some miracle an ETF were actually approved, the market would explode upwards. it would be completely unexpected and bears/shorters would be left chasing the market.

andreibi

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Anyway, I don't know about the sentiment of forum members here but in crypto Twitter, the consensus is 68% believe the ETF will be denied. So, there is no hype to speak of. Any positive ETF development or update is not yet priced in.

avikz

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Quote from: dothebeats on October 08, 2019, 12:30:51 PM

Another hype train for nothing in the making, I guess? ETFs have proven to be the most hyped thing in the bitcoin ecosystem yet literally adds in no weight or positive impact whatsoever in the whole scene. It will not get approved no matter how huge the public interest is, nor how hard the lobbyists work in order to get it done. IMO we don't need ETFs in the ecosystem. We already have established platforms that does the normal trading and other spicy stuff ETFs could offer (though in a somewhat different approach).

I have a similar opinion about ETFs! It's just a hype and won't add any real value to the crypto ecosystem, unless the ETF is settled physically. Investing on the price of an asset without actually buying/selling the actual asset, won't really add any value to the asset ecosystem. What I know, that majority of the ETFs that are waiting for the SEC approval, are not physically settled ETFs. The only physically settled ETF was the Winklevoss one which is also stuck in the line of approval. If we really want to see the volume driving up in the market, we need to see that physically settled ETFs are approved! otherwise, it won't make any sense!

Topic: Bitcoin ETF this time? (Read 365 times)