Topic: bitcoin ETFs (Read 328 times)

As reported here, SEC Says Spot Bitcoin ETF Filings Are Inadequate.

So most likely it will be rejected or those who filed will need to do a better job so the chances of a approval will be high.

But perhaps maybe we can consider this as very positive sign, at least SEC is giving feedback instead of just blatantly rejecting it without further explanation.

Don't believe in what the media is feeding you, it's possible that the ETF will be rejected or probably another style of manipulating the market, either ways I am thankful that they are doing this because they are keeping the price down and if you are smart to should have taken the advantage already.

There is no need for worries because these people understand the market and they can manipulate it, so if they plan to approve the ETF they will when they feel it's the right time, but it's good that bitcoin doesn't care about the approval or the disapproval, Bitcoin will still do well without it.

And that's what we're seeing, the influx of money coming in from different sources just because of the filing of Bitcoin ETFs has came to the market. But to mind everyone, this is not yet what we're expecting and there's more to it. So, it's just going to be a matter of time until it's approved. And the bigger influx of money will come if any of many of those ETFs filed will be granted and approved because in the past, there have been a bunch of it but AFAIK, none of them got any approval.

I don't think there is any demand from institutions right now, I don't see it on price chart as of now, maybe in the upcoming weeks? sure.
These implementations take some time to reflect on the price of Bitcoin. ETFs are just a legal way for these big institutions to stock up Bitcoin. Nothing changes for a regular user, it's for boomers.
And If you ask me, boomers don't love to invest in Bitcoin. They hate it lmao. So, let's be real.

Yes. I think a rational approach to investing and Bitcoin ETFs and their existence does not guarantee a price outcome and it is possible that the SEC will review the clarity and details regarding the sharing of custody agreements in applications filed by asset managers, including BlackRock and Fidelity.

This is exactly what happen in a previous bear market. Back in those years like 2018 to 2019, Bitcoin ETFs were rejected many times and news about Bitcoin ETFs were used to dump the market.

Bitwise ETF is only one of failed ETFs in a previous bear market. We have a bigger Bitcoin market after 2020 - 2021 bull run but again Bitcoin ETFs are back with psychological effects on weak hands.

A little bit farther into the past, in 2017, SEC denied the Winklevoss twins’ Bitcoin ETF

Bitcoin ETF is not a magic stick to help Bitcoin rising towards $1M or a nuclear bomb to kill Bitcoin market. If people understand this fact, they will be less panic and FOMO.

I hope one day you'll realize that you have profit holding bitcoin. You don't have to get rid of it to be able to say that you have profit.
Really, I don't get why so many people treat bitcoin like stocks.
When you own stocks you can't exchange it into goods or services just like that. You can't press a button and have a new computer or a plane ticket booked in 10 minutes. You can do it with bitcoin though, so it's not your average security that you need to call your broker to sell for you, or send money to an exchange and wait for them to approve your withdrawal, so a day or two later you can use your fiat bank account to finally spend it. You can spend bitcoin directly, which means your profit is there when it's there.

An ETF will provide many tax benefits and savings for accumulating bitcoin in the long run. You need to consider carefully before deciding to invest in an ETF.
You should thoroughly research the operation and management of the fund, and check the fund's portfolio and periodic expenses to ensure the transparency and safety of your investments. Large fund management companies such as Vanguard and BlackRock have a good reputation and long history in fund management, however, you still need to research and compare to choose the fund that best suits your needs and investment goals.
As a result, bitcoin's dominance in the cryptocurrency market and its stability over the long term should help mitigate these short-term fluctuations. The accumulation race should not significantly affect the stability of bitcoin, if managed properly.

I am still thinking if what will happen in Bitcoin once Bitcoin ETF will be approved, it will become just like Gold ETF when it was started? Because if yes, for sure a lot of people will do FOMO and it will just drive the price of Bitcoin to a crazy high, most people will use gold as the basis for Bitcoin being approved on ETF.
ETF is new thing and more serious because, it's institution, more money is already involved and more people will be exposed to Bitcoin via Bitcoin ETF.

I doubt you can find a month in the last 5 years when there weren't at least 10 articles about an ETF.
It's the same reheated pretzel all over again, people thinking a trillion of $ will be used to buy BTC, the price will spike up and they can finally make som profits after buying in the last FOMO. What's more tragic and comic on top of that is that a ton of them don't even know how this ETF will work but it smells of money so it must be good!


So? They've let Tesla also yet they've sued Tesla a hundred times, Intel, Dell, and Amazon in securities law violations what's the problem?
Once you get on the stock exchange you're getting a blank check or something?

The funny thing is when the SEC proposed that Binance.us would follow rules that would prevent another FTX everyone was screaming about the evil gubbermint,  when FTX Japan returned all the funds since the regulations in Japan worked everyone forgot that Binance fled Japan exactly because of those as they didn't want to comply with them!

It varies per country. Here, capital gains are tax free, but we pay an annual wealth tax instead.

Here, we can only dream about 30% tax, let alone 21%!

The SEC in my opinion is very unpredictable. Especially when It comes to crypto.

They sued Ripple
They let Coinbase on the stock market
They let Ftx get away with everything
They sued binance, coinbase and kraken
They rejected all the spot Bitcoin etfs but allowed an 2x leverage etf to launch.

So who knows what the outcome will be with this blackrock etf. Everyone will think it will get rejected but in the end it might actually be approved.

If you invest in Bitcoin, own your private keys, you will only have to pay tax if you sell your bitcoin with profit (higher value than your entry price). If you hold it, no tax or am I wrong?

About Bitcoin ETFs, are they tax free? I did not research about that but I guess no tax free.

Application. I am not an expert in accounting and did not read all the application, but looks like the tax has a chance to be 21%, lower than 30%. Is it what you implied?

Surely is a thing to do to keep our capital safe with capital diversification. In stock market, cryptocurrency market, ETFs or centralized exchanges (if we store our capital in centralized exchange accounts, not recommended of course). Even with non custodial wallets, diversify capital to different wallet softwares and different wallets are better.

I guess many are overhype with the bitcoin etf applications. Of course everyone wanted to accumuate as much as possible since the price could gone up to 100k and more. Is this possible? Answer is big yes. Its not an exaggeration since its ATH is likr 60k plus before. With the institution help and more retailers interest bitcoin would definitely be a hit more.

I can (obviously) keep my own private keys, but that doesn't get me the tax benefits. Short version: where I live, if you jump through the right hoops to save for your retirement, it's tax deductable. That means you get up to ~50% back from taxes. By the time you retire, your pension income is taxed, but the assumption is you'll pay a lower percentage by then.
The big savings are in the reduced wealth tax: we pay ~2% each year on investments. If you still have a few decades to go before you retire, you lose about half your money to taxes. You can prevent that if you jump through the right tax hoops.

The same applies to any stock market: people are totally used to paying a broker to keep their shares, and the stock market is a lot bigger than Bitcoin. It's a good reason to diversify though, so at least you won't lose everything in case one of them loses everything.

If btc does not become a recognized or widely accepted means of payment, it may find it difficult to maintain its value, due to the growth of the cryptocurrency market and the interest of the public. individuals and organizations towards cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin becoming a popular means of payment in the future is not too far away. Btc accumulation has been going on for quite some time and has been done by many large institutions and investors. Btc accumulation depends not only on volume but also on the market and current trade war situation. So the accumulative race is not about to happen, it's been going on for quite some time. With the renewed interest in bitcoin ETFs, the influx of institutional and retail investors into the crypto market is sure to increase the price and bring stability to the price of Bitcoin, which is also possible some short-term fluctuations when there is a sudden increase in capital inflows into the market.

I am not even sure why they seem to be in a pattern that one after another. Didn't they talk about this and planned this all along before the bull run comes?

But one thing for sure is that they're going to be one of the reasons to trigger the demand and show the signs that we're near to the bull run.

Yes.

Law of supply and demand. The more demand coming from these institutions, the higher the price that it will drive.

Many things will contribute to Bitcoin adoption in future, not only Bitcoin ETFs so don't over estimate importance of Bitcoin ETFs.

Not all Bitcoin ETFs will survive with time and you must think about them in two ways, positively (many people think so) and negatively (less people think of it). Negatively, not all Bitcoin EFTs will be managed safely and we will have drama, collapse, fiasco like FTX exchange.

Risk of deaths for Bitcoin ETFs. Like CBOE Bitcoin Futures died: https://www.investing.com/crypto/bitcoin/cboe-bitcoin-futures-historical-data

In late 2017 (17 December 2017), Bitcoin market has first two Bitcoin Futures: CME and CBOE and only CME survives till today. See CBOE Bitcoin Futures Historical data

Bitcoin CME Futures.

Big difference between applications for BTC ETFs and actually getting them approved. There have been applications for years, and given the current head of the SEC, who is in office until 2026 (and possibly until 2027 if his term gets extended), we won't be seeing an ETF anytime in the next few years.

But when ETFs finally do start getting approved, probably in 4-5 years, yes it will certainly drive accumulation of Bitcoin. It does nothing to drive the adoption of Bitcoin for what it is - a currency, but it will bring in more investors and therefore lead to price increase. Given that it unthinkable that an ETF gets approved under Gensler's reign at the SEC, ETFs should be a driving force of bitcoin price appreciation next market cycle, not the current 4-year market cycle.

But yeah, lots of people who invest don't know a thing about Bitcoin and don't know its relevance as a currency and just view it as an investment so there are a lot of folks out there in America who will pick up some Bitcoin in an ETF to get the price gains, but otherwise wouldn't bother trying to figure out how to get actual bitcoin through a crypto exchange because that is too new and 'scary' for them.


What will drive bitcoin accumulation even more though is sensible regulations in the US. Once rules are put in place for exchanges and the average person feels like it is safer to buy bitcoin thanks to govt regulations, there will likely be a flood of new people and companies buying Bitcoin. If by next market cycle we get US regulations and ETFs, there will be a huge flood of new money coming in from people and large corporations. So if all this happens next market cycle (as opposed to this cycle in which a very antagonistic SEC should at least slightly dampen the bull market these next two years, that cycle could very well be larger percentage-wise than whatever the current market cycle ends up being (for example, if Bitcoin 2x's this market cycle to ~$140k, maybe it 2.5x's next market cycle to ~$350k or higher).

This happened a few years back when Bitcoin ETFs were being first talked about and the media was buzzing with this new term. The forum was filled with threads pertaining to ETFs and how we could profit from them and then eventually the buzz died out.

At present this has been quoted to be the reason behind the bullish movement. I consider this as an opportunity to sell and cash out for the time being if you have a mid-term selling goal.

In the long run, bitcoin is better to buy in whole rather than an ETF. The concept was to bring in no-coiners into the risk field by making them buy ETFs over actual bitcoin. Lets see how this works out this time.