ALL OF THIS has already been gone over again and again.
It is absolutely ridiculous that with the amount of info out there now, people are still discussing and suggesting methods of payment that are able to be charged-back.
MoneyPak has also been proven a non scalable solution, albeit a great solution, it only works for maybe the personal bitcoin salesmen not a company with many clients. Of course you can always pay people with them (even though ive had customers reach the limit on their own), you just cant accept them as payment unless you do less than a couple thousand a month in sales.
Anyways,
Good luck.
Topic: Bitcoin Exchange that except Debit Card deposits (Read 4271 times)
https://www.virwox.com/ accept credit cards and paypal to buy lindum dollars which you then can exchange for bitcoin (I bought 6btc this way to test it).
The downside is you have download second life and then wander around doing nothing for no obvious reason.
Another downside is the CRAZY HIGHWAY ROBBERY STYLE FEES!The downside is you have download second life and then wander around doing nothing for no obvious reason.
If not, you may wish to edit your post just to be safe.When it comes to crazy fees that are borderline robberies, sure.
https://www.virwox.com/ accept credit cards and paypal to buy lindum dollars which you then can exchange for bitcoin (I bought 6btc this way to test it).
The downside is you have download second life and then wander around doing nothing for no obvious reason.
Another downside is the CRAZY HIGHWAY ROBBERY STYLE FEES!The downside is you have download second life and then wander around doing nothing for no obvious reason.
If not, you may wish to edit your post just to be safe. https://www.virwox.com/ accept credit cards and paypal to buy lindum dollars which you then can exchange for bitcoin (I bought 6btc this way to test it).
The downside is you have download second life and then wander around doing nothing for no obvious reason.
Another downside is the CRAZY HIGHWAY ROBBERY STYLE FEES! The downside is you have download second life and then wander around doing nothing for no obvious reason.
https://www.virwox.com/ accept credit cards and paypal to buy lindum dollars which you then can exchange for bitcoin (I bought 6btc this way to test it).
The downside is you have download second life and then wander around doing nothing for no obvious reason.
The downside is you have download second life and then wander around doing nothing for no obvious reason.
You can't easily marry bitcoin = anonymous and irreversable with credit cards = identifiable and easily reversable. The person holding bitcoins (i.e. exchange) trading bitcoins for other things will always lose.
Fixed a bit, since the people ending up holding bitcoins at the end are typically the scammers
Is this a real problem? How do banks figure out fraud from real claims? If it's a problem for bitcoin why isn't it a problem for every single thing sold on the internet?
It is a problem. Credit card fraud costs merchant/banks roughly ~$2.2B a year (2008 latest year I have a stat for).
That is a lot of cost that gets absorbed into the cost of everything we buy and pay for. That $2.2B is a combination of identity theft, plain-vanilla credit card fraud and so called "friendly fraud" (where buy decides to misreport a transaction as fraudulent/chargeback).
This is one reason credit card fees are so high. If people want the ease and access of credit cards be prepared for the massive fees and lack of anonymity that come with it.
You can't easily marry bitcoin = anonymous and irreversable with credit cards = identifiable and easily reversable. The person trading/selling bitcoins (i.e. exchange) will always lose.
Here is a theoretical way around it which perhaps wont work or is illegal:
Could you accept payment by debit/credit card and then immediately move the money into a different account so that the merchant account almost never has any money in it?
What problems would that cause?
If only chargeback didn't exist.
Could you accept payment by debit/credit card and then immediately move the money into a different account so that the merchant account almost never has any money in it?
What problems would that cause?
If only chargeback didn't exist.
Sadly, you can still have the bank take your account into negative balance, and then even charge you overdraft fees. Using a non-chargebackable system (cash, wire transfer) are pretty much the only ways to do this, outside of establishing trust between investor and exchange (as with my pre-paid VISA idea above)
Here is a theoretical way around it which perhaps wont work or is illegal:
Could you accept payment by debit/credit card and then immediately move the money into a different account so that the merchant account almost never has any money in it?
What problems would that cause?
If only chargeback didn't exist.
Could you accept payment by debit/credit card and then immediately move the money into a different account so that the merchant account almost never has any money in it?
What problems would that cause?
If only chargeback didn't exist.
The 3% fee makes sure that the 3% of fraudulent transactions that happen out there get covered. If fraud was more prevalent, the fee would be higher. If businesses worried about Bitcoin fraud, they could figure out how often fraud happens, and could charge a fee based on that as well. So far none do. Hopefully none will start to either, though it does put a limit on the number of ways you can buy Bitcoin.
1. How does a fee fix anything? If someone buys bitcoins, takes them and then gets their bank to chargeback the exchange, the exchange was the victim of fraud (Which would be funny because chargeback is supposed to fix fraud).
2. Other payment methods cost money so an exchange expecting a small fee isn't a major problem, would it? It's a shame debit/credit card fees are percentage based and can be quite high.
So is there any way to fix the problem with fraud? I just suppose debit/credit cards are stupid things. Supposed to be convenient yet have silly systems which leave the merchants and consumers both worse off.
Edit: I think only credit cards usually require percentage fees to merchants. Debit cards can have fixed and small fees. A small fixed fee for debit cards wouldn't be bad. A higher fee for credit cards is not so much a problem. Will promote people not to take out unnecessary credit at least.
2. Other payment methods cost money so an exchange expecting a small fee isn't a major problem, would it? It's a shame debit/credit card fees are percentage based and can be quite high.
So is there any way to fix the problem with fraud? I just suppose debit/credit cards are stupid things. Supposed to be convenient yet have silly systems which leave the merchants and consumers both worse off.
Edit: I think only credit cards usually require percentage fees to merchants. Debit cards can have fixed and small fees. A small fixed fee for debit cards wouldn't be bad. A higher fee for credit cards is not so much a problem. Will promote people not to take out unnecessary credit at least.
Is this a real problem? How do banks figure out fraud from real claims? If it's a problem for bitcoin why isn't it a problem for every single thing sold on the internet?
This is the reason banks and VISAs of the world charge 3% fees for most transactions. If Bitcoi n businesses charged 3% as well, chargebacks wouldn't be an issue, but then Bitcoin wouldn't have much of an advantage either.
Is this a real problem? How do banks figure out fraud from real claims? If it's a problem for bitcoin why isn't it a problem for every single thing sold on the internet?
Actually, there are no reliable means of sending money to someone without the possibility of chargebacks.
Not even wire transfers bank to bank, even they may be charged back (at least in most countries), but it is at least very very difficult with them.
Western Union and the like would do, as well as cash. Nothing else.
The reason is simply legal requirements, which is why even services that want to offer a non-chargebackeable transfer will most likely not be legally able to do so (probably the reason for issues with dwolla chargebacks).
Live with it. Chargebacks may occur. Cash is the only way out
Not even wire transfers bank to bank, even they may be charged back (at least in most countries), but it is at least very very difficult with them.
Western Union and the like would do, as well as cash. Nothing else.
The reason is simply legal requirements, which is why even services that want to offer a non-chargebackeable transfer will most likely not be legally able to do so (probably the reason for issues with dwolla chargebacks).
Live with it. Chargebacks may occur. Cash is the only way out
doesnt paxum allow for debit cards? perhaps chargebacks isn't the issue but what about stolen cards?
Dwolla and that other site can do this, right?
You can buy a Green Dot card at Walmart/CVS/etc. and use it to buy BTC from someone (like me) who accepts them. Or, try to find a naive soul on #bitcoin-otc.
Be aware of the fees: http://www.chapter7.com/the-dangers-of-prepaid-debit-cards/
One interesting takeaway from that ariticle:
Quote
According to the Times, banks expect this industry to grow from generating less than $25 billion this year, to a staggering $125 billion in 2012.
BItcoin could easily be part of that staggering $125 billion by 2012.
You can buy a Green Dot card at Walmart/CVS/etc. and use it to buy BTC from someone (like me) who accepts them. Or, try to find a naive soul on #bitcoin-otc.
Yeah, unfortunately for the honest people here, there's 10 scammers to every 1 of us. It's why we can't have nice things.
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