Bitcoin Exchanges , a "Free" alternative to mixers ?

deisik

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Quote from: splitups on February 15, 2017, 07:18:14 PM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on August 30, 2016, 02:22:08 PM

I was really wondering If exchanges could be considered as a free alternative for Mixers like Bitmixer ? Mixers make transactions confusing to whoever is trying to track you , and I guess It's the same thing for exchanges as you don't own your address but there are transactions coming to and going from your address.

I was looking to my address at CoinsBank (AKA bit-x) and I couldn't find much about the addresses I was withdrawing to and there is also transactions that I didn't make in the first place . So yeah , could exchanges be an alternative ? (at least a cheaper/free one)?

in a way, yes it's mixing for a small fee for withdrawing however, there are few issues with that:

- most exchanges (I know bitstamp and btc-e) do not welcome you doing that at all, no rigid rules but a possibility to be asked for ID, address particularly for large amount, altcoin exchanges don't mostly though.

- There are records of everything, the main thing about mixers is not keeping any records for the exchange, but here there are records for the incoming and the outgoing tx's accessible for the website, as well as even potential identity information, Therefore people doing mixing for large orders would mostly prefer using mixers and paying rather than exchanging websites

I wouldn't harbor much hope on this

I remember when some dude involved with mixer services admitted here that mixers do keep logs (at least, for some time) of all transactions that they have processed. This is required if a dispute should arise between the service and their clients. Other than that, if a mixer is taken over by some government security agency (or even created by them), they will keep all logs of all activity. If you are in a money-laundering business and that's for real, you might not want to have any delusions on this account, I mean that they don't keep records (but that you would know yourself)

splitups

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on August 30, 2016, 02:22:08 PM

I was really wondering If exchanges could be considered as a free alternative for Mixers like Bitmixer ? Mixers make transactions confusing to whoever is trying to track you , and I guess It's the same thing for exchanges as you don't own your address but there are transactions coming to and going from your address.

I was looking to my address at CoinsBank (AKA bit-x) and I couldn't find much about the addresses I was withdrawing to and there is also transactions that I didn't make in the first place . So yeah , could exchanges be an alternative ? (at least a cheaper/free one)?

in a way, yes it's mixing for a small fee for withdrawing however, there are few issues with that:

- most exchanges (I know bitstamp and btc-e) do not welcome you doing that at all, no rigid rules but a possibility to be asked for ID, address particularly for large amount, altcoin exchanges don't mostly though.

- There are records of everything, the main thing about mixers is not keeping any records for the exchange, but here there are records for the incoming and the outgoing tx's accessible for the website, as well as even potential identity information, Therefore people doing mixing for large orders would mostly prefer using mixers and paying rather than exchanging websites.

deisik

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on February 15, 2017, 09:42:48 AM

Quote from: bob123 on February 14, 2017, 03:51:33 PM

Its not really anonymous mixing if you have your name associated to the deposit of your BTC.
You may get other BTC's than you deposited.. but there is still the association of your Name (or at least of your account)
and your coins.
A Mixer gives you the opportunity to get "clean" coins to your address without any association to your old ones (or to your name).

But if you got your coins without any illegal activities.. i guess you can use those exchanges as a kind of Mixer..

I know mixers are probably a better way but both gambling sites and exchanges usually don't require any names unless you want to use fiat for trading etc... It's never needed to provide your personal info when you trade between crypto only. CoinsBank , Poloniex are both an example for that

This is only if you are going withdraw amounts below some fixed limit (per day)

I'm not sure about CoinsBank (and they may in fact have stricter rules in this regard), but I well remember the day when Poloniex set such limits. I don't know about right now (I don't actively trade there nowadays), but back then it was about 1k worth of dollars allowed to withdraw daily without proper identification of yourself

OmegaStarScream

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Quote from: bob123 on February 14, 2017, 03:51:33 PM

Its not really anonymous mixing if you have your name associated to the deposit of your BTC.
You may get other BTC's than you deposited.. but there is still the association of your Name (or at least of your account)
and your coins.
A Mixer gives you the opportunity to get "clean" coins to your address without any association to your old ones (or to your name).

But if you got your coins without any illegal activities.. i guess you can use those exchanges as a kind of Mixer..

I know mixers are probably a better way but both gambling sites and exchanges usually don't require any names unless you want to use fiat for trading etc... It's never needed to provide your personal info when you trade between crypto only. CoinsBank , Poloniex are both an example for that.

bob123

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Its not really anonymous mixing if you have your name associated to the deposit of your BTC.
You may get other BTC's than you deposited.. but there is still the association of your Name (or at least of your account)
and your coins.
A Mixer gives you the opportunity to get "clean" coins to your address without any association to your old ones (or to your name).

But if you got your coins without any illegal activities.. i guess you can use those exchanges as a kind of Mixer..

ImHash

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Quote from: alisus on February 14, 2017, 01:56:39 PM

I also have used the exchange as an alternative mixer!
with the exchange and with VIP Bitcoin accounts that exist in Indonesia
I do not need bitcoin system mixer
I think with that we do not need to exchange services other mixer.

I don't think anybody cares whether or not you mix your coins if you have got any at all, mixers are a solution to hide the origins of your coins. If you are mining large amounts daily and don't want anyone to find your location by tracing the mined bitcoins you can use BitMixer.io so they receive the mined coins on your behalf and with different fees and timing send some other coins to as many addresses as you instruct them to send.
There is no use for average joes in mixing their few bucks worth of bitcoins.
When you send your coins to mixer they become the decoy while you already done your trades and finished those tracking you still busy thinking they are on your tail.

If you are a miner and don't want to pay tax when you decide to exchange into fiat a mixer is also your solution.

And of course a mixer is only good if they are trusted especially with large amounts.

Senor.Bla

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There are more things to consider. Why do you want your Bitcoins mixed? Just to hide it from your Mother, so she does not see what you buy? This would seem safe to me, at least regarding the privacy. But Exchanges will keep book of your addresses and if the right authority (or for some other reason someone else) comes into possession of those book, then your privacy is gone. But there is more to consider. It is an additional risk to have Bitcoin at exchanges. A hack might be the obvious but unlikely risk, but there are problems from time to time if you want to withdraw again from the exchange. Just be aware of that.

alisus

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I also have used the exchange as an alternative mixer!
with the exchange and with VIP Bitcoin accounts that exist in Indonesia
I do not need bitcoin system mixer
I think with that we do not need to exchange services other mixer.

useless4

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Quote from: btvGainer on August 31, 2016, 07:38:11 AM

Quote from: mobilestrike on August 30, 2016, 02:33:16 PM

I am already using exchanges as alternative of mixers, with my exchange and with my xapo account I do not need any bitcoin mixer system, I think with that service of exchange we do not need any other mixer.

But exchanges keep your record which defeats the purpose of mixing.What do you mix your coins for? to keep them anonymous obviously but do you think your identity keeps anonymous when you use exchanges?

you are right, i never use exchanges as mixers because i know that it is impossible to be completely anonymous with it to be honest

deisik

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Quote from: btvGainer on August 31, 2016, 07:38:11 AM

Quote from: mobilestrike on August 30, 2016, 02:33:16 PM

I am already using exchanges as alternative of mixers, with my exchange and with my xapo account I do not need any bitcoin mixer system, I think with that service of exchange we do not need any other mixer.

But exchanges keep your record which defeats the purpose of mixing.What do you mix your coins for? to keep them anonymous obviously but do you think your identity keeps anonymous when you use exchanges?

It all depends on whom you are trying to hide your transactions from. It is quite possible that using an exchange outside of the US jurisdiction (say, in China) may be a safer way to mix (hide) your coins than using a US based mixing service if you aim, for example, at tax evasion in the US...

Anyone who ain't paranoid simply ain't paying attention

btvGainer

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Quote from: mobilestrike on August 30, 2016, 02:33:16 PM

I am already using exchanges as alternative of mixers, with my exchange and with my xapo account I do not need any bitcoin mixer system, I think with that service of exchange we do not need any other mixer.

But exchanges keep your record which defeats the purpose of mixing.What do you mix your coins for? to keep them anonymous obviously but do you think your identity keeps anonymous when you use exchanges?

virtualkeybuyer

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You are right, exchanges work like a good mixer, so I do not need any mixer and I totally rely on exchanges for mixing my bitcoins on addresses and I did not face any issue in doing that.

deisik

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Quote from: 1Referee on August 31, 2016, 05:16:24 AM

Quote from: Amadues on August 31, 2016, 03:50:27 AM

you can use exchange as free mixers also in this way:

send btc --- exchange for ltc/doge --- withdraw this coins in a new address.

Then send this coins to another (or the same exchange) and you can get back your btc !

Probably you loss a bit because there is a couple of passage but I think this is also a fair solution Wink

This doesn't change the fact that an exchange still knows where your coins are going. With a mixer they delete all things linked to your transaction as soon as your clean coins are received by you. That's the main benefit compared to using an exchange or other service as a mixer.

I'm afraid this is not so. There was a discussion here about this matter some time ago, and it was proven that mixers do keep logs of the transactions they process. For example, if you have a dispute with a mixer over some issue, the legit one will have to prove that they received funds from you and did actually send them back to you (you guess what it means in respect to the matter in question)...

The consensus was that no matter what the mixers might say and want you to believe, you'd still better not hope that they "delete all things linked to your transaction"

Doamader

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Well the only issue is with mixers no one will trace your coins overs the wallets, as this is their service, with exchanges i do believe if some problem happens they can and will trace the wallets and find the coins. But i never used mixers and i dont need them why to hide my balance being it 1 btc or even 1000 bitcoins makes no sense for me.

deisik

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Quote from: mobilestrike on August 30, 2016, 02:33:16 PM

I am already using exchanges as alternative of mixers, with my exchange and with my xapo account I do not need any bitcoin mixer system, I think with that service of exchange we do not need any other mixer.

If I'm not mistaken, Coinbase (another online wallet like Xapo) creates a new Bitcoin address for every transaction you make. So it would be hard to follow Coinbase transactions as well...

Unless you stick to using the same address, of course

Red-Apple

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on August 30, 2016, 02:22:08 PM

I was really wondering If exchanges could be considered as a free alternative for Mixers like Bitmixer ? Mixers make transactions confusing to whoever is trying to track you , and I guess It's the same thing for exchanges as you don't own your address but there are transactions coming to and going from your address.

I was looking to my address at CoinsBank (AKA bit-x) and I couldn't find much about the addresses I was withdrawing to and there is also transactions that I didn't make in the first place . So yeah , could exchanges be an alternative ? (at least a cheaper/free one)?

it depends on what you want to achieve from mixing your coins. if you want to prevent other bitcoin users to find out about your cold storage for example or find out how much bitcoin you own then yes it is a good and cheap way of doing it.

but for other purposes that may be shady coins then you have to use mixers.

1Referee

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Quote from: Amadues on August 31, 2016, 03:50:27 AM

you can use exchange as free mixers also in this way:

send btc --- exchange for ltc/doge --- withdraw this coins in a new address.

Then send this coins to another (or the same exchange) and you can get back your btc !

Probably you loss a bit because there is a couple of passage but I think this is also a fair solution Wink

This doesn't change the fact that an exchange still knows where your coins are going. With a mixer they delete all things linked to your transaction as soon as your clean coins are received by you. That's the main benefit compared to using an exchange or other service as a mixer.

amacar2

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I think exchangers (legal/registered one) should co-ordinate with government or laws in time of investigation and at that time they may supply your personal details to them on which they can find address they are looking for in withdraw list of the member and it will be easy for them to catch the guy.

And in worst scenario if you keep your coins in exchanger than in case of hack like bitfinex all of the coins you have will be lost.

BTCLovingDude

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Quote from: Amadues on August 31, 2016, 03:50:27 AM

you can use exchange as free mixers also in this way:
send btc --- exchange for ltc/doge --- withdraw this coins in a new address.
Then send this coins to another (or the same exchange) and you can get back your btc !
Probably you loss a bit because there is a couple of passage but I think this is also a fair solution Wink

* if you are doing something illegal for example gained the coins through a hack then doing all that is pointless because authorities can contact both exchanges and ask then to release your information (the addresses, your IP and a lot more)

* if you are not doing anything illegal then there is no point of doing all that. just do a simple deposit and withdrawal and you are good to go.

Amadues

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you can use exchange as free mixers also in this way:

send btc --- exchange for ltc/doge --- withdraw this coins in a new address.

Then send this coins to another (or the same exchange) and you can get back your btc !

Probably you loss a bit because there is a couple of passage but I think this is also a fair solution Wink

Topic: Bitcoin Exchanges , a "Free" alternative to mixers ? (Read 1920 times)