Bitcoin & Exchanges , contradiction ?

edric

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Quote from: achow101 on June 19, 2015, 12:50:36 PM

Quote from: edric on June 19, 2015, 12:37:51 PM

Quote from: RappelzReborn on June 18, 2015, 11:24:02 AM

Most of people that use bitcoin their obvious answer probably is going to be "because it's annonymus and don't need my real informations and my account don't get limited" when you ask them why do you use Bitcoin .
But most of them also use Exchange to trade their bitcoin and most of those exchange websites asks for ID or passport verification and residence and some other real informations , so isn't this a contradiction Huh

don't exchange defeats the purpose of bitcoin

Absolutely. At localbitcoins, you also have to give your bank details to the buyer for payment. So it does not remain anonymous at all. But that is not bitcoin's fault. It is the users fault to use it as an exchange commodity instead of a currency.

Not necessarily. With localbitcoins, I can buy using cash-in-mail. There doesn't need to be a return address either so that is completely anonymous. I can also buy using gift cards and reload cards with cash to exchange for BTC so my name and id is never associated.

Yes but preferable choice tends to go towards online banking. People rely on banks, they trust banking system more than any other mode of payments. Maybe not all of the people, but most of them do.

pooya87

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Quote from: RappelzReborn on June 18, 2015, 11:24:02 AM

Most of people that use bitcoin their obvious answer probably is going to be "because it's annonymus and don't need my real informations and my account don't get limited" when you ask them why do you use Bitcoin .
But most of them also use Exchange to trade their bitcoin and most of those exchange websites asks for ID or passport verification and residence and some other real informations , so isn't this a contradiction Huh

don't exchange defeats the purpose of bitcoin

the anonymity part of bitcoin is not that much important "for me". but so far i have bought bitcoin with fiat from a person so i have never provided any document to any exchanger.

and i think there is nothing contradictory about exchangers asking for these kind of documents and the fact that bitcoin is anonymous. because first of all you can avoid using exchangers and since they are working within a country and working with fiat they have to obey the laws about trading and all other rules about taxes etc.

dollarneed

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Yup it kinda does, is that bitcoin was created for annonimity? why i should uploaded my document it does not make a sense actually i dont like this bulshit i've got a problem with local exchange that i have to proof my identity i dont know that exchange should used a real name and couldn't changed once already you submited and guess what i cant even to withdraw my btc back to the blockchain,that was so sad Sad

Bitcoin is simple so please dont make it complicated

ajareselde

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Satoshi is rolling in his grave. #bitcoin

Quote from: jeannemadrigal2 on June 20, 2015, 01:09:05 PM

Quote from: RappelzReborn on June 20, 2015, 12:23:07 PM

Quote from: daddybios on June 20, 2015, 11:08:56 AM

There are many exchanges which do not require personal data. And there are many objects with how to exchange Bitcoins for real money. I use these.
But there are people who do not hide their identity and origin of the money - they do not care.
Everyone decides for himself. Anyone who wants to remain anonymous - that will remain anonymous.

Mind giving some names and some links because all the exchange that I knew so far require either Residence + ID/passport or simply ID/Passport so you can start exchanging .
Only way I use to exchange to avoid those things is on forums like here on the currency exchange section or on other forums with the same section . that's the only solution

All of them? You can just give the exchanges a fake name if you want. I don't use any that require any type of verification, only if you want to have large transactions every day.

You can, but not for long. Like everything that has wide range of money laundering possibility, it is just a matter of time when such exchanges will be forced to change their way handling users under aliases.
That's why many of them are starting to enforce ID verification.

cheers

daddybios

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Quote from: RappelzReborn on June 20, 2015, 01:04:24 PM

I just checked their website , also saw their thread on their Bitcointalk but dosen't seem very popular around here to be honest .
also aren't they little bit exagirating ? "Trusted by 202,150 people in over 100 countries" , we most likely don't even have that number on total number of Bitcoin users so how for a exchange website Huh

I do not advertise this exchange. But while I'm happy with everything I will use next. Money is paid automatically and I feel so comfortable.

Quote

202,150 people

Maybe it's the number of registrations rather than living people. Many have a couple of accounts.

jeannemadrigal2

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Quote from: RappelzReborn on June 20, 2015, 12:23:07 PM

Quote from: daddybios on June 20, 2015, 11:08:56 AM

There are many exchanges which do not require personal data. And there are many objects with how to exchange Bitcoins for real money. I use these.
But there are people who do not hide their identity and origin of the money - they do not care.
Everyone decides for himself. Anyone who wants to remain anonymous - that will remain anonymous.

Mind giving some names and some links because all the exchange that I knew so far require either Residence + ID/passport or simply ID/Passport so you can start exchanging .
Only way I use to exchange to avoid those things is on forums like here on the currency exchange section or on other forums with the same section . that's the only solution

All of them? You can just give the exchanges a fake name if you want. I don't use any that require any type of verification, only if you want to have large transactions every day.

RappelzReborn

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Quote from: daddybios on June 20, 2015, 12:53:33 PM

Quote from: RappelzReborn on June 20, 2015, 12:23:07 PM

Mind giving some names and some links because all the exchange that I knew so far require either Residence + ID/passport or simply ID/Passport so you can start exchanging .
Only way I use to exchange to avoid those things is on forums like here on the currency exchange section or on other forums with the same section . that's the only solution

For example, you can use Exchange "exmo"
There I change Bitcoin for dollars.
Dollars can be withdraw on PayPal, Perfect Money, webmoney and other wallets. (there is no need documents) I do not know what kind of wallet is suitable for your country.
Then I deduct money on the card and go to the ATM.
I do not trust exchange forum.
So I lose 3.5% commission but it suits me.

I just checked their website , also saw their thread on their Bitcointalk but dosen't seem very popular around here to be honest .
also aren't they little bit exagirating ? "Trusted by 202,150 people in over 100 countries" , we most likely don't even have that number on total number of Bitcoin users so how for a exchange website Huh

Quote from: ajareselde on June 20, 2015, 12:58:51 PM

Quote from: RappelzReborn on June 18, 2015, 11:24:02 AM

Most of people that use bitcoin their obvious answer probably is going to be "because it's annonymus and don't need my real informations and my account don't get limited" when you ask them why do you use Bitcoin .
But most of them also use Exchange to trade their bitcoin and most of those exchange websites asks for ID or passport verification and residence and some other real informations , so isn't this a contradiction Huh

don't exchange defeats the purpose of bitcoin

Nobody is forcing you to use exchanges as third party, you can exchange with other people one on one.
Later on, you can use coin mixer to mask coin origin. Bitcoin is created to be used without need for third party, hence spend it directly, or exchange directly, bitcoin is not misleading,
People that use exchanges obviously dont value their identity, or have no need to hide it.

cheers

I know , I know i'am not forced to use them , I was just giving my point and yes that's exactly what I'am doing I all the time trade on forums with people and never got scammed because I know how to choose members before the trade .

ajareselde

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Satoshi is rolling in his grave. #bitcoin

Quote from: RappelzReborn on June 18, 2015, 11:24:02 AM

Most of people that use bitcoin their obvious answer probably is going to be "because it's annonymus and don't need my real informations and my account don't get limited" when you ask them why do you use Bitcoin .
But most of them also use Exchange to trade their bitcoin and most of those exchange websites asks for ID or passport verification and residence and some other real informations , so isn't this a contradiction Huh

don't exchange defeats the purpose of bitcoin

Nobody is forcing you to use exchanges as third party, you can exchange with other people one on one.
Later on, you can use coin mixer to mask coin origin. Bitcoin is created to be used without need for third party, hence spend it directly, or exchange directly, bitcoin is not misleading,
People that use exchanges obviously dont value their identity, or have no need to hide it.

cheers

daddybios

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Quote from: RappelzReborn on June 20, 2015, 12:23:07 PM

Mind giving some names and some links because all the exchange that I knew so far require either Residence + ID/passport or simply ID/Passport so you can start exchanging .
Only way I use to exchange to avoid those things is on forums like here on the currency exchange section or on other forums with the same section . that's the only solution

For example, you can use Exchange "exmo"
There I change Bitcoin for dollars.
Dollars can be withdraw on PayPal, Perfect Money, webmoney and other wallets. (there is no need documents) I do not know what kind of wallet is suitable for your country.
Then I deduct money on the card and go to the ATM.
I do not trust exchange forum.
So I lose 3.5% commission but it suits me.

RappelzReborn

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Quote from: daddybios on June 20, 2015, 11:08:56 AM

There are many exchanges which do not require personal data. And there are many objects with how to exchange Bitcoins for real money. I use these.
But there are people who do not hide their identity and origin of the money - they do not care.
Everyone decides for himself. Anyone who wants to remain anonymous - that will remain anonymous.

Mind giving some names and some links because all the exchange that I knew so far require either Residence + ID/passport or simply ID/Passport so you can start exchanging .
Only way I use to exchange to avoid those things is on forums like here on the currency exchange section or on other forums with the same section . that's the only solution

daddybios

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There are many exchanges which do not require personal data. And there are many objects with how to exchange Bitcoins for real money. I use these.
But there are people who do not hide their identity and origin of the money - they do not care.
Everyone decides for himself. Anyone who wants to remain anonymous - that will remain anonymous.

bitnanigans

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The issue is when fiat money (or currency in general) becomes involved, there are all sorts of systems and legislation in place, because the governments always want to control money. If it was possible to exchange bitcoin for something else of value, perhaps identification won't be required?

Amph

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Quote from: Hazir on June 19, 2015, 12:33:02 PM

Quote from: Amph on June 18, 2015, 12:30:38 PM

not all exchange ask id at all, many are only akisng it, if you deal with a great amount of money, otherwise if you do not exceed their ceiling(usually around $500-$1000) you are free to operate without providing any id of any kind

but your anonymity is still in trouble if you don't work on it with other service or with address ramification and any sort of deception

Can you name a few exchanges which don't ask you for your ID and credentials? Because from my experience they all want to know your name, address and other informations -> then you can trade coins.
And if you reach certain level of processed transactions (i.e. you sell bitcoins for more than $1000) then exchange will ask you for full scans of your IDs.

well that it's not an id, for ID i mean your identity card or proof of resistance, if they ask you your name or address you can put fake one, no problem there

the problem is when you need to attach a bank account to your trading account, because at that point you need to put your real name, bu still there is nothing that say that my name is actually that, if i don't provide an ID(card identity like passport driver's licence ecc...)

Marbit

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Quote from: RappelzReborn on June 18, 2015, 11:24:02 AM

Most of people that use bitcoin their obvious answer probably is going to be "because it's annonymus and don't need my real informations and my account don't get limited" when you ask them why do you use Bitcoin .
But most of them also use Exchange to trade their bitcoin and most of those exchange websites asks for ID or passport verification and residence and some other real informations , so isn't this a contradiction Huh

don't exchange defeats the purpose of bitcoin

Anonymity isn't the only thing bitcoin has to offer, it's the security and the de-centralized nature is what has more relevance in my personal opinion.
Block chain is the novelty provided by Satoshi, not anonymity. But hey, that's just me

achow101

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Quote from: MicroGuy on June 19, 2015, 12:57:55 PM

I don't think anonymity is the primary factor.

There are two reason that people use Bitcoin, 1.) as a speculative investment, and 2.) to buy things they couldn't otherwise buy.

For a lot of people anonymity is a very important factor. There are more than two reasons that people use Bitcoin, and your second reason is not valid. I can buy pretty much anything with USD that I could buy with Bitcoin. However, I use Bitcoin because it is more convenient than a credit card. No need to fill out information about my home address and stuff, just copy and paste a single Bitcoin address. I also use Bitcoin because I can buy tons of things at a discount. People are willing to pay a premium to get Bitcoin, and thus I can get myself a nice discount on stuff that I want.

jeannemadrigal2

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Quote from: MicroGuy on June 19, 2015, 12:57:55 PM

Quote from: RappelzReborn on June 18, 2015, 11:24:02 AM

Most of people that use bitcoin their obvious answer probably is going to be "because it's annonymus and don't need my real informations and my account don't get limited" when you ask them why do you use Bitcoin .

I don't think anonymity is the primary factor.

There are two reason that people use Bitcoin, 1.) as a speculative investment, and 2.) to buy things they couldn't otherwise buy.

For me there is a third reason, that the banks are the great Satan of our day. If the average person bothered to find out what the banks are doing there would blood in the streets. Assuming the average person can understand "complex" things like derivatives and bribery.

Actually I don't care to be anonymous from the government, and I will pay taxes on my bitcoin things. I would love to dodge taxes but uncle sam has a big dick and he never uses lube.

If I ever have lots of bitcoins (knock on the wood) I will use a mixer, but this is not to hide from governments but to hide from thieves finding my personal information and trying to rob or hack me. I hope that some day I have this problem

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Quote from: MicroGuy on June 19, 2015, 12:57:55 PM

Quote from: RappelzReborn on June 18, 2015, 11:24:02 AM

Most of people that use bitcoin their obvious answer probably is going to be "because it's annonymus and don't need my real informations and my account don't get limited" when you ask them why do you use Bitcoin .

I don't think anonymity is the primary factor.

There are two reason that people use Bitcoin, 1.) as a speculative investment, and 2.) to buy things they couldn't otherwise buy.

And what things you can't buy with standard dollars or euros? Are you suggesting that Black Markets are primarily the main force of Bitcoin growth?
Because I found many things I can't buy with bitcoin yet, and almost none exclusive items obtainable only for bitcoin.

If you don't think anonymity is not important you would be glad when you receive official letter from Inland Revenue, just because they got your IDs from bitcoin exchange.

MicroGuy

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Quote from: RappelzReborn on June 18, 2015, 11:24:02 AM

Most of people that use bitcoin their obvious answer probably is going to be "because it's annonymus and don't need my real informations and my account don't get limited" when you ask them why do you use Bitcoin .

I don't think anonymity is the primary factor.

There are two reason that people use Bitcoin, 1.) as a speculative investment, and 2.) to buy things they couldn't otherwise buy.

achow101

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Quote from: edric on June 19, 2015, 12:37:51 PM

Quote from: RappelzReborn on June 18, 2015, 11:24:02 AM

Most of people that use bitcoin their obvious answer probably is going to be "because it's annonymus and don't need my real informations and my account don't get limited" when you ask them why do you use Bitcoin .
But most of them also use Exchange to trade their bitcoin and most of those exchange websites asks for ID or passport verification and residence and some other real informations , so isn't this a contradiction Huh

don't exchange defeats the purpose of bitcoin

Absolutely. At localbitcoins, you also have to give your bank details to the buyer for payment. So it does not remain anonymous at all. But that is not bitcoin's fault. It is the users fault to use it as an exchange commodity instead of a currency.

Not necessarily. With localbitcoins, I can buy using cash-in-mail. There doesn't need to be a return address either so that is completely anonymous. I can also buy using gift cards and reload cards with cash to exchange for BTC so my name and id is never associated.

edric

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Quote from: RappelzReborn on June 18, 2015, 11:24:02 AM

Most of people that use bitcoin their obvious answer probably is going to be "because it's annonymus and don't need my real informations and my account don't get limited" when you ask them why do you use Bitcoin .
But most of them also use Exchange to trade their bitcoin and most of those exchange websites asks for ID or passport verification and residence and some other real informations , so isn't this a contradiction Huh

don't exchange defeats the purpose of bitcoin

Absolutely. At localbitcoins, you also have to give your bank details to the buyer for payment. So it does not remain anonymous at all. But that is not bitcoin's fault. It is the users fault to use it as an exchange commodity instead of a currency.

Topic: Bitcoin & Exchanges , contradiction ? (Read 1378 times)