Topic: Bitcoin fees and future - page 2. (Read 341 times)

There will be solutions for this, technically and unit of bitcoin. With the expectation that Bitcoin value will grow up and price will increase more, 1 satoshi will have more value in $ with time, and new smaller units can be created and use for Bitcoin transaction fees.

Solutions like Lightning Network, Bitcoin side chains and something new can help Bitcoin technically.

Sidechain Observer - Bitcoin L2 Projects & current state of development
[Did you know?] Bitcoin Table of Units

This is absolutely true and logical. My question is about the possibility that Bitcoin will not be available to everyone due to the scarcity factor that will affect the supply in the market and the difficulty of making transactions due to the high transaction fees after the completion of mining the last Bitcoin. Can't we talk about the "death of Bitcoin" clinically as happens with humans? I read articles about these futuristic approaches and I find them really interesting because they pose the issues from a completely objective point of view. What do you think?

Bitcoin is the number one cryptocurrency and its market cap is similar to market cap of top companies. There is no way for such a popular thing to not experience transactions on chain but even if we imagine the scenario when nobody makes a transaction, then I can confidently tell you that there will be nobody to mine. It's impossible for everybody to mine and nobody to make transactions because both of these scenarios are the opposite of each events. If nobody makes transaction, then why will somebody mine something that's dead? And if everybody mines, then it automatically means that many people make transactions.
The whole point of Bitcoin is not 0 fee, if it was, then there wouldn't be a fee system. After 2140 there will be no reward but Bitcoin will be so popular at that time that there will be millions of transactions every day and that will be enough to motivate miners to keep their mining rigs turned on.

That will be more serious than negative mining revenue that usually causes Mining Capitulation. With transactions, transaction fees and Bitcoin block subsidy, Bitcoin miners that have weak fund for their mining business have to shut down their ASICs and capitulate from Bitcoin network when mining is not profitable.

When Bitcoin network has no transactions, that means there will be no new block found in my opinion, because return to time when there were only Bitcoin block subsidy and no other transactions like years ago, is very impossible IMO.

Bitcoin hash ribbon indicator and capitulation.
https://www.bitcoinmagazinepro.com/charts/hash-ribbons/

if there was no transactions in the bitcoin network the network will not collapse immediately most likely some miners are going to want to stick around for a bit and keep the network secure there will still be profits from that but it would not be as attractive anymore which may eventually lead to miners opting out of mining bitcoin this would not immediately make bitcoin crash though because the system is built in a way that mining difficulty will go down so that the remaining ones can still work efficiently and earn a little bit of profit

this will not happen though bitcoin is a currency that is used all over the world so i do not see a point in worrying about this

Satoshi Nakamoto said this years ago too in What's with this odd generation?.

If Bitcoin blockchain is alive and there is transaction volume, there is consequently transaction fee for Bitcoin miners.
Bitcoin blockchain is Proof of Work, and Bitcoin miners keep mining if they get positive income after deduction of input cost, through Bitcoin block subsidy and transaction fees.

Bitcoin will be very expensive because the miners only earn through solving the cryptography, run ASICs requires electricity cost, initial investment to buy the hardware and maintenance the hardware. If the miners didn't earn enough to cover the money they spent, they might leave it, just like solo miners who have left Bitcoin.

But, 2140 is really long to go, the recent problem is we don't even know what will happen with Bitcoin after centralized institutions own most of Bitcoin and tightening the rules about Bitcoin.

If no one spent money there would be no purpose for money!

It's still decentralized, as anyone can become one of these nodes, just not every single user. The developers actually stripped out the ability to easily turn on mining from the base wallet software back in 2011: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/pull-remove-gui-generate-coins-option-5353

And with the dominance of asics (special type of chip that mines faster than cpu's or gpu's found in typical computer's) there is no point in attempting to mine unless you buy specialized hardware.

There's some intresting stuffs about fees eventually getting too small to incentivise miners: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_Commons

It seems there is a link between fees and security of the system, which may be impact the fees level.

Senders already must include fees to get a transaction added to the ledger quickly. These fees go to the miners/maintainers. The amount of those fees is function of supply and demand between people creating transaction and miners/maintainers. Those fees will be the sole incentive after new money stops being created, which will be reduced gradually over time not suddenly.

firstly the normal blockreward is sufficient to cover miners for a few cycles(halving periods) before fee's become meaningful(say 2040+)
so no real need of a fee war to force people to pay more right now to feed the miners

however by the time we hit year 2100 the normal blockreward would be so small, no one would care because fee's will be the significant portion by then anyways
no one will even think or discuss the blockreward in 2140 as all discussion way before then would be about fees

also by then (reminder we are talking about 75 years from now) the bitcoin blockchain and basically all electronic tech would have evolved to allow more data per 10min to not be limited to just a few mb per 10min(we already can surpass 4mb safely right now if dev-politics was not in the way(hint: not a technical barrier, just a dev-political barrier))

so its not going to be a situation in 75 year of only ~3000tx per block having to pay $1000 worth of sats per tx to cover a $3m block cost, but instead we would and should have scaled the space for many many many more transactions per block by then, so each transaction pays very little per transaction to still be a popular value transfer network

remember just 25 years ago kodak was arguing 1megabyte flashmemory was going to be too expensive to be consumer practical.. now we have terrabyte+ flash memory

The point of bitcoin has never been no fees.

Anyway, if there are no transactions, then Bitcoin is dead.

So when mining we actually calculating other people transactions. What if everone just mining and nobody make transactions? The whole point of bitcoin is that it has no fees if you use professional mode wont that defeat the purpose of not having a central computer? And after 2140 there will be no reward to maintain the network then why would anyone bother doing it? Would the people investing money into these servers not just quit right away causing the whole system to collapse and the value of money be completely lost?