Topic: Bitcoin fork for a small town - page 3. (Read 10452 times)
What I think that he is really looking to do is start a LETS system that is somewhat distributed, entirely digital and automatic. Modifying Bitcoin is a good way to do this, because it's already pretty close to a LETS for the Internet as it is. A blockchain for a LETS need not be secured in the same fashion, however. There is no need for a currency limit if transactions are based upon mutual credit, nor any kind of currency distribution process as in Bitcoin. The blockchain would only serve as a distributed ledger system for the LETS, and the difficulty would be largely irrelevent.
Satoshi's little fortune interferes with sound sleep pattern of some noobs apparently...
How is there no incentive for a GPU farm?
Even with game currencies valued by no-one outside the game GPU farms are a very real threat.
Why would anyone in your town who does have a GPU refrain from using it instead of or as well as their CPU?
Are you maybe not mining coins with each block?
Or are you valuing your coins very very very low, so low that even with a CPU they do not really cover the cost of electricty so even CPU mining will only be done by people who think of their electricity as free or maybe feel they are not using as much electricity as their landlord computed into their power-included rent so running a miner is a way to help get their money's worth instead of overpaying for their bundled electricity or who simply like the idea of donating electricity to the effort?
Even with no "real money" to be made by running a GPU farm I already see people trying to come up with ways to win games, win wars against other game nations in game wars, and so on by running a bunch of GPUs. It is hard to believe a town's teenagers, or even adult citizens, are going to refrain from making use of what GPUs they have on hand if by doing so they can grab more of the town's new barter credits than the Joneses next door.
Skeptics or cynics might even go so far as to suggest the reason you want to deliberately not rule out GPU farms is because you plan to use one yourself!
-MarkM-
Even with game currencies valued by no-one outside the game GPU farms are a very real threat.
Why would anyone in your town who does have a GPU refrain from using it instead of or as well as their CPU?
Are you maybe not mining coins with each block?
Or are you valuing your coins very very very low, so low that even with a CPU they do not really cover the cost of electricty so even CPU mining will only be done by people who think of their electricity as free or maybe feel they are not using as much electricity as their landlord computed into their power-included rent so running a miner is a way to help get their money's worth instead of overpaying for their bundled electricity or who simply like the idea of donating electricity to the effort?
Even with no "real money" to be made by running a GPU farm I already see people trying to come up with ways to win games, win wars against other game nations in game wars, and so on by running a bunch of GPUs. It is hard to believe a town's teenagers, or even adult citizens, are going to refrain from making use of what GPUs they have on hand if by doing so they can grab more of the town's new barter credits than the Joneses next door.
Skeptics or cynics might even go so far as to suggest the reason you want to deliberately not rule out GPU farms is because you plan to use one yourself!
-MarkM-
Why not use Bitcoin? A lot of people in that small town are going to be pissed off at you when they find out about the "real" Bitcoin.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
A town of 36,000 has a 0% chance of affecting bitcoin in any way, up to and including the name "bitcoin."
It is easier to sell the concept from scratch than it is to explain why bitcoin is over $8.00.
Seriously, cool your jets. Nobody is stepping on your turf. If I was planning to interfere with bitcoin, why would I tell you about it? If telling you is part of your logical conclusion, you have epic Asperger's.
Introducing cryptocurrency without the yakuza, Russian mafia or the CIA in the background can only help the main project.
Yes, I need to establish a genesis block and choose a different port, IRC channel etc., etc., etc.
I doubt I will get to 1000 miners. My biggest concern is keeping the universe of miners in this town. There won't be an incentive for a gpu farm like there is with bitcoin. Is there a way to white list IP addresses? If not, my second thought is to somehow limit mining to a pool.
It's a very low key operation. It will be introduced through the barter site rather than a political statement about alternative currencies.
Why the hostility?
A town of 36,000 has a 0% chance of affecting bitcoin in any way, up to and including the name "bitcoin."
It is easier to sell the concept from scratch than it is to explain why bitcoin is over $8.00.
Seriously, cool your jets. Nobody is stepping on your turf. If I was planning to interfere with bitcoin, why would I tell you about it? If telling you is part of your logical conclusion, you have epic Asperger's.
Introducing cryptocurrency without the yakuza, Russian mafia or the CIA in the background can only help the main project.
Yes, I need to establish a genesis block and choose a different port, IRC channel etc., etc., etc.
I doubt I will get to 1000 miners. My biggest concern is keeping the universe of miners in this town. There won't be an incentive for a gpu farm like there is with bitcoin. Is there a way to white list IP addresses? If not, my second thought is to somehow limit mining to a pool.
It's a very low key operation. It will be introduced through the barter site rather than a political statement about alternative currencies.
Why the hostility?
Why don't you want to stop a miner from going crazy with a farm?
If you want CPU mining to work reasonably even just one miner using a GPU instead of a CPU is a kind of "going crazy" isn't it? I thought I'd read somehwere of GPU power being thousands of times faster at this than CPUs? So you would need over a thousand people using their CPU just to match one miner using one GPU?
Of course if you issue all the coins right in the genesis block instead of having them minted with each block the town council or the barter network organisers or whoever has a better ability to ensure the system doesn't get upset by new coins magically appearing from nowhere / anywhere and also there will be less incentive for someone to "go crazy with a farm". Instead of "going crazy" anyone with a bunch of GPUs can become a highly respected pillar of the community merely as a deterrent to attackers by having power in reserve ready to bring online at any moment if the difficulty is observed to be rising higher than one, or higher than whatever normal power-conserving level of diffficulty the town finds it needs to allow due to some of the participants not understanding exactly how to keep their node from processing too fast.
You might even be able to keep difficulty so low that when someone does a transaction they turn on processing on their node for a half hour or so so that their node can generate a block to contain that transaction, if not enough other people are currently already doing the same thing.
Any time the difficulty starts to climb, promptly start auditing everyone's connections to find out where the rogue processing is coming from, maybe also turning on the town's cyber-defense GPU-equipped unit that can all by itself match the power of all the CPUs of all the verified / authorised participants.
It would be lovely to work this out, because various blockchains already in existence face similar concerns. So far many of them have settled for all sharing just one machine using just one CPU to "mine" so that between the lot of them sharing that one CPU none of them have any worry about their difficulty climbing higher than one (1) and in fact it has turned out that by this means they also are not having to deal with 7200 new coins each day but far less than 7200 new coins each day. This means they also hopefully will not be facing the kind of complaints about early adopters getting too much of the pie that we keep seeing in these forums, because they are in fact keeping the issuing of new coins very low even compared to what just one CPU not sharing its power across many blockchains could achieve.
If you have access to people willing to dedicate only one CPU or less to "mining", that could be great to co-operate with.
A lot of electricity could be conserved by having the majority of the available hashing power not actually in use during periods of not being under attack, so that any attacker would not be able to actually know just how much power they would be up against if they attacked until they actually do mount an attack.
-MarkM-
If you want CPU mining to work reasonably even just one miner using a GPU instead of a CPU is a kind of "going crazy" isn't it? I thought I'd read somehwere of GPU power being thousands of times faster at this than CPUs? So you would need over a thousand people using their CPU just to match one miner using one GPU?
Of course if you issue all the coins right in the genesis block instead of having them minted with each block the town council or the barter network organisers or whoever has a better ability to ensure the system doesn't get upset by new coins magically appearing from nowhere / anywhere and also there will be less incentive for someone to "go crazy with a farm". Instead of "going crazy" anyone with a bunch of GPUs can become a highly respected pillar of the community merely as a deterrent to attackers by having power in reserve ready to bring online at any moment if the difficulty is observed to be rising higher than one, or higher than whatever normal power-conserving level of diffficulty the town finds it needs to allow due to some of the participants not understanding exactly how to keep their node from processing too fast.
You might even be able to keep difficulty so low that when someone does a transaction they turn on processing on their node for a half hour or so so that their node can generate a block to contain that transaction, if not enough other people are currently already doing the same thing.
Any time the difficulty starts to climb, promptly start auditing everyone's connections to find out where the rogue processing is coming from, maybe also turning on the town's cyber-defense GPU-equipped unit that can all by itself match the power of all the CPUs of all the verified / authorised participants.
It would be lovely to work this out, because various blockchains already in existence face similar concerns. So far many of them have settled for all sharing just one machine using just one CPU to "mine" so that between the lot of them sharing that one CPU none of them have any worry about their difficulty climbing higher than one (1) and in fact it has turned out that by this means they also are not having to deal with 7200 new coins each day but far less than 7200 new coins each day. This means they also hopefully will not be facing the kind of complaints about early adopters getting too much of the pie that we keep seeing in these forums, because they are in fact keeping the issuing of new coins very low even compared to what just one CPU not sharing its power across many blockchains could achieve.
If you have access to people willing to dedicate only one CPU or less to "mining", that could be great to co-operate with.
A lot of electricity could be conserved by having the majority of the available hashing power not actually in use during periods of not being under attack, so that any attacker would not be able to actually know just how much power they would be up against if they attacked until they actually do mount an attack.
-MarkM-
This is doomed to an epic failure, but you are welcome to try as long as you don't intefere with Bitcoin doing it.
Some other attempts:
- http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=10278.9
(see the post suggesting the instructions from Freecoin)
- http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9493.0
This can be done, but we aren't going to help you do it. If you try it, change your currency's name and start with an entirely new genesis block on a different port number and different IRC channel.
This is doomed to an epic failure, but you are welcome to try as long as you don't intefere with Bitcoin doing it.
This is doomed to an epic failure, but you are welcome to try as long as you don't intefere with Bitcoin doing it.
I want to fork the bitcoin code for a small town of 36,000 people.
. You are a local tyrant or something?
I want to fork the bitcoin code for a small town of 36,000 people.
Basically, the people I am working with want to foster barter in the town.
I think it's obvious that we cannot ride the coattails of the bitcoin project with the first mover BTC. Too much chaos in the exchange rate.
One thing I would add to this fork is to control IP addresses that are allowed to mine.
I want to keep the difficulty low enough for CPU mining. That means no random entries to the network. Everything beyond mining is encouraged to be as anonymous as possible.
I cannot, and do not want, to stop a verified miner from going nuts with a farm. I think it's highly unlikely that this project would suffer the same mining chaos of the main branch.
The key is white listing IP addresses.
Can this be done?
This post is short and I have to go for the moment but I would really like opinions on how to make this project work.
Thanks.
Basically, the people I am working with want to foster barter in the town.
I think it's obvious that we cannot ride the coattails of the bitcoin project with the first mover BTC. Too much chaos in the exchange rate.
One thing I would add to this fork is to control IP addresses that are allowed to mine.
I want to keep the difficulty low enough for CPU mining. That means no random entries to the network. Everything beyond mining is encouraged to be as anonymous as possible.
I cannot, and do not want, to stop a verified miner from going nuts with a farm. I think it's highly unlikely that this project would suffer the same mining chaos of the main branch.
The key is white listing IP addresses.
Can this be done?
This post is short and I have to go for the moment but I would really like opinions on how to make this project work.
Thanks.
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