Bitcoin goes down = alts go down, Bitcoin goes up = alts go down

thomastaylor

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Quote from: belmonty on November 13, 2014, 07:17:43 PM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on November 13, 2014, 07:11:40 PM

From what I have deduced over the past couple years, it works generally the opposite of what the thread title claims. When Bitcoin goes u the big alts go up as well, and when Bitcoin goes down the main alts go down. I think this is because most people think if Bitcoin fails then all ALT coins will fail too, as confidence from the general public about cryptocurrencies would be shattered.

I noticed there is often a time delay between bitcoin going up and the alts going up. I suspect people need some time to get confident bitcoin is really going up before they start investing in alts.

So true!
It takes some hours up to one day to see an impact on alts. Same procedure when bitcoin is going down.
Theoretical it is like an early-warning system and give alt-investors the possibility to avoid bigger losses.
As I said it is all theoretical.

azguard

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Quote from: moiraine on November 14, 2014, 09:19:28 AM

As of now the only semi-healthy alts are:
-LTC
-DOGE
-DRK

Your right for this alt they have stable community, price and volume, for now.
But i dont get it with price change last year when btc was up rolling ltc follow now more and more he is stable and independent from btc price in all ways.
Need something big to happen to ltc price change I think.

bajlox

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Yea all alts follow BTC change.

But glad that i wasn just me who notice that when btc goes up some alts go down.
I dont know why and right question is in which alt to invest or to hold some amount in btc?

Suggestion in which one is tough call.

BootstrapCoinDev

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There seems to be a time lapse when Bitcoin goes up the alt coins eventually also go up, but it takes some time. You can't always rely on this though.

moiraine

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at this point, unless an alt as a new algo or Proof of X it'll basically die.

As of now the only semi-healthy alts are:
-LTC
-DOGE
-DRK

I think vtc might also be up there, but im not really familiar with it.

The 3 above coins still have decent volume and networks as essentially secure, and they show some sort of independence from btc. For example, LTC maintained it's $4~ price throughout the btc rise from 350-400. It obviously dropped relative to BTC but usd value held strong-ish.

but ofc people will move to btc during a rise. As for a during a drop, Im guessing that they are just trying to get out to fiat(and thus have to go alt->btc)

Ryse

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It seems that OKcoin's recent x20 leverage is one of the culprits to this deteriorating alt market volume. A lot of the BTC probably moved over there for the time being until BTC stabilizes some.

Not going to lie, x20 sounds so tempting.

Either insta-rich, or insta-poor.

belmonty

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Quote from: CoinHoarder on November 13, 2014, 07:11:40 PM

From what I have deduced over the past couple years, it works generally the opposite of what the thread title claims. When Bitcoin goes u the big alts go up as well, and when Bitcoin goes down the main alts go down. I think this is because most people think if Bitcoin fails then all ALT coins will fail too, as confidence from the general public about cryptocurrencies would be shattered.

I noticed there is often a time delay between bitcoin going up and the alts going up. I suspect people need some time to get confident bitcoin is really going up before they start investing in alts.

CoinHoarder

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In Cryptocoins I Trust

From what I have deduced over the past couple years, it works generally the opposite of what the thread title claims. When Bitcoin goes up the big alts go up as well, and when Bitcoin goes down the main alts go down. I think this is because most people think if Bitcoin fails then all ALT coins will fail too, as confidence from the general public about cryptocurrencies would be shattered.

djm34

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Quote from: Spoetnik on November 13, 2014, 06:45:57 PM

Did any of you bother to read the topic ?

I see this a lot all over crypto.. you guys FAIL hard at getting what the point here was.

Their point is that they have to sell their crap coins and all thread are good for that (especially those filled in despair) Grin

That's probably why altcoins are always going down at the moment...
Only P&D group+coin dev trying to sell wind at 10k sat while excluding miner (competitors, since they sell more than they buy)

Spoetnik

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FUD Philanthropist™

Did any of you bother to read the topic ?

I see this a lot all over crypto.. you guys FAIL hard at getting what the point here was.

balu2

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Quote from: picolo on November 13, 2014, 02:40:31 PM

Interesting fact but you would have made way more money holding bitcoins than uno and not all bitcoins mined go to exchanges.
Bitcoin is a far superior coin than any other altcoin that are just lottery tickets at best.

i think uno will be around for a much longer time. Since i am holding it longterm i don't worry so much since demand at this point will always be greater than inflation so i would anticipate it to keep slowly rising like it did for the last 6 months.
Bitcoin is just first mover and better in PR, but not superior in its properties to hold value (10% inflation). It's quite volatile because of that inflation. I do hold bitcoin too, of course but smaller cap coins make potentially more profit.
How many hundred million USD would btc need to double in value?
Smaller cap coins need less new money to rise. A good portfolio has small cap and large cap coins alike in it imo.
The art in this is to avoid shitcoins and overpriced (hyped) coins.

Spoetnik

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FUD Philanthropist™

Quote from: Aterna on November 13, 2014, 04:10:29 PM

Every now and then you can find paired coins. When one is over bought it gets dumped and moves over to a coin that is oversold. Might just be whale games, but there is just way too many alts and noise out there.

you might still be able to find a way to make a profit but that has nothing to do with the topic at all.

and the vice is tightening more and more over time..

Aterna

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Every now and then you can find paired coins. When one is over bought it gets dumped and moves over to a coin that is oversold. Might just be whale games, but there is just way too many alts and noise out there.

Spoetnik

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FUD Philanthropist™

things changed since i started trading ALT's in July 2013
there used to be a pattern of one going up and then the other would go down and vice versa..
both those days are loooong gone.
i also pointed out how since that time every month there is a flurry of dumping leading up to a peak at the end of every month
with a peak rise mid month in ALT coins.. and that use to rebound us back a bit but that ended too.

now, we have a steady downward trend overall and it's been like this all year i think.. the game changed and patterns broke apart.

prices are dropping no matter what because less and less people are trading ALT coin.. couldn't be simpler really.
and they are leaving because this shit is a joke !
a corrupt rigged game of ponzi schemes.

i have to laugh at guys with their delusional optimism and funny excuses for predictions / trends excuses LOL

Aterna

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I've noticed this too. Adds a nothing volatile element to something that's already volatile as hell. Bitcoin going up and alts going down isn't too bad, because you're usually at a close or similar $. But bitcoin crashing and people dumping is easily the most painful scenario out of the two.

mr.coinstrader

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There's too many coins to do deep research on all of them but so far,
heard positive things about 2 coins:
Nem and Node

picolo

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Quote from: balu2 on November 13, 2014, 01:41:35 PM

Quote from: picolo on November 13, 2014, 11:46:39 AM

To make money with alt-coins you need :
-to create an altcoin and get people excited by it
-buy/mine an altcoin early and be lucky/skilled enough to pick the one that will soar in price
-scam
-trade the altcoins markets and be lucky/skilles enough

But from a long-term or even one year perspective you are probably better off with Bitcoin than any other coins

again, doesn't apply to uno. You were loosing $$$ while holding btc last year. Uno is the only coin of all the coins (including bitcoin) that did not loose you money for holding last year. That's not hype, that's fact. Look at the charts. While other coins were loosing up to 99,9% Uno had its alltime low around 1.60$ for a coin. Today it's at around 3.50$ and still cheap from that angle.
15 new coins minted per day only. Needs only 3.6btc new money a month to hold that value

here the numbers of some other coins:

Quote from: BitcoinNational on November 11, 2014, 11:49:12 AM

Looking at the other large cap coins
_{BTC in new investment needed per month at current price}
Dark    > 230
Feathercoin > 245
bitmark    > 316
Namecoin     > 522
Peercoin     > 741
DogeCoin     > 850
LTC    > 8784

And bitcoin ... $38,430,000 of new investment is needed just to equalize the coin inflation.

Interesting fact but you would have made way more money holding bitcoins than uno and not all bitcoins mined go to exchanges.
Bitcoin is a far superior coin than any other altcoin that are just lottery tickets at best.

balu2

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Quote from: picolo on November 13, 2014, 11:46:39 AM

To make money with alt-coins you need :
-to create an altcoin and get people excited by it
-buy/mine an altcoin early and be lucky/skilled enough to pick the one that will soar in price
-scam
-trade the altcoins markets and be lucky/skilles enough

But from a long-term or even one year perspective you are probably better off with Bitcoin than any other coins

again, doesn't apply to uno. You were loosing $$$ while holding btc last year. Uno is the only coin of all the coins (including bitcoin) that did not loose you money for holding last year. That's not hype, that's fact. Look at the charts. While other coins were loosing up to 99,9% Uno had its alltime low around 1.60$ for a coin. Today it's at around 3.50$ and still cheap from that angle.
15 new coins minted per day only. Needs only 3.6btc new money a month to hold that value

here the numbers of some other coins:

Quote from: BitcoinNational on November 11, 2014, 11:49:12 AM

Looking at the other large cap coins
_{BTC in new investment needed per month at current price}
Dark    > 230
Feathercoin > 245
bitmark    > 316
Namecoin     > 522
Peercoin     > 741
DogeCoin     > 850
LTC    > 8784

And bitcoin ... $38,430,000 of new investment is needed just to equalize the coin inflation.

foxbitcoin

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it is usual,is due to the fact that the market optimism
I'd rather focus in the next big thing which I think will be NODEcoin

coinflow

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Mooncoin is stable: https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/MOON_LTC

Topic: Bitcoin goes down = alts go down, Bitcoin goes up = alts go down (Read 2580 times)