Isn't this exactly playing into that graph people always like to post? You know. The graph that shows early adopters and the price line going slowly up. Then the "public" gets in and the line takes off until it hits the top where it says "New Paradigm!!!" Only for the line to start falling. Then eventually it reaches the "despair" phase and then slowly comes back to normal after a bunch of people have already written it off.
Guess I just don't understand how Bitcoin was a solid idea a month ago and now that we've had a wild price swing due to speculation and tomfoolery with DDOS that all of a sudden it's worthless....
Topic: Bitcoin going to zero - Karl Denninger Tickerforum.org - page 4. (Read 17988 times)
There's going to be loads of such articles these days but we have to deal with it.
Instead of swinging the FUD-hammer, it would be good to point out the flaws or shortcomings in a neutral language, and perhaps even suggest what can be done about it.
Don't hold your breath. Here is another interesting post by KD from the Tickerforum.org
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I read the post, but not sure if I approve of the tone in much of it. Seems very negative. I don't know why people spend their time writing so much negative stuff. If I didn't like something, I would simply avoid paying any attention to it, and certainly would not spend all my time writing about it!
That being said, some of his points are valid, but he exaggerates a lot too. He says you can't use a currency where the value falls 50% in a few minutes. If we look at the price history of bitcoin, how many times have it fallen 50% in minutes? Sure, voaltility is a problem, but this is still a small market, and once it becomes bigger, it will take more to move it, and hence it will become more stable.
I would think most businesses accepting bitcoin are able to handle the risk. Business owners are not stupid. Instead of swinging the FUD-hammer, it would be good to point out the flaws or shortcomings in a neutral language, and perhaps even suggest what can be done about it.
I'm not sure what it is about bitcoin to have some of it's hardest critics not critizising it in an academic and intelligent way, but going so hard at it like it's some scumbag that raped their wife.
The notion of the strongest support level of bitcoin being at 0.00 is ridiculous. As long as the bitcoin system is running, there will be a use for it. Look at the decline after the bubble in the summer 2011. It went down to 2ish. It didn't go to zero. No matter what price point we're looking at, there will always be someone that's interested in using bitcoin, because it's such an easy way to pay online.
Sure there are risks, and some of these risks are really bad, like promising a Chinese business man 1000 dollars, and then you buy BTC and send it to him, and the exchange rate goes down significantly before he can convert it to his local currency. But it could also go up - or just flatline. You don't know - and as bitcoins are being more and more used, the market will grow - and we will eventually see more stability.
Sometimes I wonder, do the critics expect everything to work right off the bat ? No matter what you do, if you do something new, creating a microprocessor, starting a company, building a hospital robot or introducing a crypto-currency, everything will not be perfect from the set go, it needs to evolve.
It's like a mother giving birth to a child, some people may look at the baby and say: He can never become a professor, he doesn't even speak correct language, he can't sustain himself, he's drooling all over, and his place is on the floor, crawling, he will never be able to walk, run or do business or academics, just look at him, he can't do those things!
Some people are very short sighted, they don't see the larger picture. What's important is to be a visionary, to imagine things that are outside the box, things that can grow and become big, and even if you tried and didn't succeed, it was still a hell of a journey!
I sometimes wonder if some bloggers are paid to sway public opinion, and I guess many people swallow what the critics say, totally raw - but come on, what's the point of being so utterly negative, why spend your time on that ?
Poor old Karl, a day late and a dollar short ....
... not only has he showed up late for the party, it is the day after the party and he's going around drinking the dregs, firing up old roaches from soggy ashtrays, inspecting the vomit and kicking people off couches who are sleeping it off ...
... not only has he showed up late for the party, it is the day after the party and he's going around drinking the dregs, firing up old roaches from soggy ashtrays, inspecting the vomit and kicking people off couches who are sleeping it off ...
seems all indicators are pointing to some other, as yet introduced, alt currency replacing bitcoin. but wont w/ever alt-currency that emerges lack the decentralization, and user-autonomy inherent to btc? i can't see developers working too hard to make anyone except themselves, or worse; their masters rich.
I think Freicoin will be that coin, maybe after one or more other alt-coins that have more time under their belts have their day in the sun. It's gone the farthest in reducing the features in BTC that guaranteed deflation and price instability. Stability is clearly the next problem that must be solved for cyrpto currency to continue advancing. Their are still more things we can do and the pool of innovations is barely tapped. Check it out at http://freico.in/ or on our forums at http://www.freicoin.org/index.php
The only reason to try this is as part of an experiment. Bitcoin offers that plus financial incentive to try it out and encourage others to do so as well. I doubt the project will be successful but wish it well.
If I came off as a Bitcoin basher, then you misunderstood my posts. I'm a firm Bitcoin believer!! I bought in when it was very cheap, so my need to exit isn't based on speculation, but on survivability. I need my funds to start my venture, hence my interest to exit in the 60's if we start playing in that area this week.
Good luck to you.
The only reason you come off as a basher is you keep pasting that hysterical, alarmist, mostly content-free blog post, even when it isn't remotely cogent to the topic at hand.
Good luck with your business, sincerely.
seems all indicators are pointing to some other, as yet introduced, alt currency replacing bitcoin. but wont w/ever alt-currency that emerges lack the decentralization, and user-autonomy inherent to btc? i can't see developers working too hard to make anyone except themselves, or worse; their masters rich.
I think Freicoin will be that coin, maybe after one or more other alt-coins that have more time under their belts have their day in the sun. It's gone the farthest in reducing the features in BTC that guaranteed deflation and price instability. Stability is clearly the next problem that must be solved for cyrpto currency to continue advancing. Their are still more things we can do and the pool of innovations is barely tapped. Check it out at http://freico.in/ or on our forums at http://www.freicoin.org/index.php
I know that I've said in the past that I would hold onto my coins, but if it starts playing in the 60's this week, then that tells me that this is a slow bleed-out. Where we stop on the way down is anyone's guess. So if we start playing in the 60's, I think that it will be time for me to gracefully exit.
Good, one less speculator.
Here's a thought, how about trying to create something of actual value and trade that good or service for bitcoin directly, without worrying about the last 10 candles on clarkmoody?
This is like a goddamn forex forum anymore.
Actually I did. I'm working on attempting to create a bed and breakfast type business that accepts Bitcoins. The idea came about after Airbnb.com's refusal to accept Bitcoins. 9flats.com recently began accepting Bitcoins.
Because of the wild price swings, a simple brick and mortar start-up like I wanted to get off the ground is extremely difficult. But I won't give up.
If you accept bitcoin as a payment option, how much of your business do you expect to conduct in BTC? certainly not 100%, and certainly you shouldn't be valuing tangible material expenses in BTC either, at least not yet. If your business is viable, eating (or gaining) the price swings on a few of the bookings in BTC shouldn't plow it under either.
It isn't going to be all Bitcoin based of course when it starts. Hopefully, in the coming years when Bitcoin finally settles down and a firm value is reached, then we can enhance our acceptance of Bitcoin. Doing so will eliminate the high fees charged by Airbnb.com + the Paypal fees.
If I came off as a Bitcoin basher, then you misunderstood my posts. I'm a firm Bitcoin believer!! I bought in when it was very cheap, so my need to exit isn't based on speculation, but on survivability. I need my funds to start my venture, hence my interest to exit in the 60's if we start playing in that area this week.
Good luck to you.
Karl Denninger is a serious wetpants. He just bashes everything and when something goes wrong he steps up and says, “See I told you so.”
I know that I've said in the past that I would hold onto my coins, but if it starts playing in the 60's this week, then that tells me that this is a slow bleed-out. Where we stop on the way down is anyone's guess. So if we start playing in the 60's, I think that it will be time for me to gracefully exit.
Good, one less speculator.
Here's a thought, how about trying to create something of actual value and trade that good or service for bitcoin directly, without worrying about the last 10 candles on clarkmoody?
This is like a goddamn forex forum anymore.
Actually I did. I'm working on attempting to create a bed and breakfast type business that accepts Bitcoins. The idea came about after Airbnb.com's refusal to accept Bitcoins. 9flats.com recently began accepting Bitcoins.
Because of the wild price swings, a simple brick and mortar start-up like I wanted to get off the ground is extremely difficult. But I won't give up.
If you accept bitcoin as a payment option, how much of your business do you expect to conduct in BTC? certainly not 100%, and certainly you shouldn't be valuing tangible material expenses in BTC either, at least not yet. If your business is viable, eating (or gaining) the price swings on a few of the bookings in BTC shouldn't plow it under either.
I know that I've said in the past that I would hold onto my coins, but if it starts playing in the 60's this week, then that tells me that this is a slow bleed-out. Where we stop on the way down is anyone's guess. So if we start playing in the 60's, I think that it will be time for me to gracefully exit.
Good, one less speculator.
Here's a thought, how about trying to create something of actual value and trade that good or service for bitcoin directly, without worrying about the last 10 candles on clarkmoody?
This is like a goddamn forex forum anymore.
Actually I did. I'm working on attempting to create a bed and breakfast type business that accepts Bitcoins. The idea came about after Airbnb.com's refusal to accept Bitcoins. 9flats.com recently began accepting Bitcoins.
Because of the wild price swings, a simple brick and mortar start-up like I wanted to get off the ground is extremely difficult. But I won't give up.
I followed KD a few years ago and did well based on his advice. He wasn't always 100 percent on everything, however he was 100 percent correct on many things.
I have a feeling that he's correct on Bitcoin, but hope that he isn't. Time will tell.
I have a feeling that he's correct on Bitcoin, but hope that he isn't. Time will tell.
I know that I've said in the past that I would hold onto my coins, but if it starts playing in the 60's this week, then that tells me that this is a slow bleed-out. Where we stop on the way down is anyone's guess. So if we start playing in the 60's, I think that it will be time for me to gracefully exit.
Good, one less speculator.
Here's a thought, how about trying to create something of actual value and trade that good or service for bitcoin directly, without worrying about the last 10 candles on clarkmoody?
This is like a goddamn forex forum anymore.
That's bad news to me. KD is one of the persons I pay some attention to from time to time. And he's got some tech abilities...he doesn't need to 'ask his IT dept like Pento or Schiff...forgot which bozo said that... I'll have to read Karl's earlier work on the subject.
I know that I've said in the past that I would hold onto my coins, but if it starts playing in the 60's this week, then that tells me that this is a slow bleed-out. Where we stop on the way down is anyone's guess. So if we start playing in the 60's, I think that it will be time for me to gracefully exit.
Stopped clock effect. If you call for a crash in the Bitcoin price continually for two and a half years eventually you'll be right.
I love the snark bitcoin brings out in these people. Bitcoin causes Emotions. 
True, in this case it was more of a question asked and answered thing though. I still wouldn't call it "all indicators" but his comment makes sense to me now.
This might have been true in the past but it seems that crypto-currencies are changing the rules.
↑ I could not have said it better, so I will just re-quote it. ↑
We could call bitcoin and things like it, "Money 4.0".
Money 1.0 ____ Metals
Money 2.0 ____ Paper
Money 3.0 ____ Digital
Money 4.0 ____ Encrypted, decentralized digital
seems all indicators are pointing to some other, as yet introduced, alt currency replacing bitcoin. but wont w/ever alt-currency that emerges lack the decentralization, and user-autonomy inherent to btc? i can't see developers working too hard to make anyone except themselves, or worse; their masters rich.
What indicators?
The price went up really fast, then came down fast and left us still way up versus even a few months ago. I felt good about Bitcoin when it was trading around the $15 range for months. As a store of value I've made a ton of money over the long term. Bitcoin can also still do all the things it could before plus has continual work being done on the protocol and constant increasing improvements to the infrastructure, not to mention adoption has never been higher....
im talking about the press. Max Kieser, amongst others are announcing that they have got patents on various alt-currencies based on the bitcoin model. Sounds great, if you hold the patent. pretty much guarantees the patent holder is the sole "early adopter" The rest of us will only be "allowed" to use it, for a nominal fee ofc, making it no different than paypal or visa. big f&*king deal, says I.
Ah OK hadn't heard about that. Doesn't sound great at all.
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