Topic: Bitcoin <--> GoldMoney - page 3. (Read 13678 times)

Thanks for pointing me to OT, it looks promising, at least in the purely asset-backed sense of the proposed GoldCoin.  I'll think about how attached I am to the idea/fantasy that the new currency's Bitcoin-like properties might come to dominate its value and render its gold backing obsolete.

Cross-posted, modulo a few changes: https://bitcoin.org.uk/forums/topic/306-ideas-for-goldcommodity-backed-cryptocurrency/

Also, there can be n number of markets in OT.
You just have to define the asset pair, the server will create a market for you!

You may be interested in Open Transactions. You can issue digital gold with it.
you can trade it there for digital silver, dollars, bitcoins stored in OT servers, ripple credits and any other currency that is compatible with OT.
I have to admit that I don't really know how it works technically, but it seems that you can do what you want to do with it instead of a chain.
It is cash-like and transactions can be instant (even with bitcoins).

It'd be nice if GoldMoney sponsored a block-chain currency with units backed by gold.  They'd control the issuance (no block solution rewards--only transaction fees for mining) and promise to buy the currency at a certain rate of gold.  (The rate would decrease slowly over time--or the chain would need demurrage--in proportion to the gold storage costs.)

If I were to do this, I'd design the GoldCoin chain with a shared proof-of-work system (merged mining) from the outset to defend against 51% attacks.  The currency would not be decentralised the way Bitcoin is, but if successful, it might rise in value enough to dwarf the underlying asset and become de facto decentralised.  The gold backing will have been be just a bootstrapping technique, an advancement over Bitcoin's 50 BTC block generation reward.  To compensate for the cost of mining (low due to shared proof) during the early stage, the gold holder would simply pay miners, perhaps via a mechanism much like block rewards.

The software would recognise some special keys as belonging to the GoldCoin issuer.  We'd need an incentive for miners to include messages signed by them, such as new issuance transactions.  (GoldCoin units would be created only upon transfer of the corresponding amount of gold-backed currency to the issuer's dedicated account.)  I'd write the software so as to regard a block containing an issuer message as "higher" than one without it, thus expressing users' desire to receive the messages.  Other official messages might include price quotes, software or protocol upgrades, news, etc.

Exchange between the digital gold currency (DGC) and the cryptocurrency could be fully automatic.  Transfer your DGC to the official account with your address in the memo, and the GoldCoin issuer promises to issue new currency to that address.  Send your GoldCoin to a specially formatted address, which encodes your DGC account number, and the issuer promises to deposit DGC at the current official rate.  If the GoldCoin issuer and the DGC issuer are one and the same, there is no additional trust issue beyond trusting each currency.

GoldMoney won't do this or allow anyone to do it with their DGCs due to regulatory concerns.  Perhaps one of its competitors will.  Pecunix?  Liberty Reserve?  I post this partly in the fear that GoldMoney will patent the system and prevent its implementation for 20 years.  Of course, the same system could work with commodities other than gold: silver, cash, baskets of commodities, etc.

interesting comparison of costs of holding gold online vs premium on physical metal.

side note: goldmoney is a decent service willing to adopt and I live in a country allowing payments in gm. so once bitcoin exchange rate approaches parity with silver ounce, I will open buy offers for gold there : )

edit: to benefit from optimum storage fees with goldmoney the deposit should be above 550 grams. otherwise the .1 g monthly min fee is a disadvantage for a piggy bank

http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/9872899440/global-exchange-trading-expands

I see that Ruxum exchange will accept GoldMoney Gold Grams, Silver and Palladium for adding funds to the exchange.  The metal is converted at current rates for the trading currency you choose, less a fee.

You need to be signed in to read the details but they show it on this page:
 - http://x.ruxum.com/account/transfers/deposit

Thank you, Landstander! 

Landstander is a very considerate and trustworthy trading partner! Would definitely trade again!

Just completed a successful trade with imanikin. Very courteous and prompt trader. Highly recommended for those looking to buy BTC with GM.

Thanks imanikin! 

Also interested in selling BTC for GoldMoney, please PM me for a trade

posted by sunnakar:

I can't believe all this came from just two attorneys -- one would think it would require a whole team to come up with such twisted logic.   Please consider reality, vs. legality, as the basis of your actions:

1) Bitcoin is, manifestly and very very obviously, an e-currency by any common interpretation of that term.   GoldMoney would be perfectly within the scope of its user agreement to start policing Bitcoin exchanges, and almost certainly will if they notice any volume of it happening -- just as they have done again and again in the past, with PayPal, e-gold, Liberty Reserve, etc.   
 
2) As a private company, GoldMoney is not required to come up with any "legal definition" of e-currency, or to justify any other basis of a right-of-exclusion clause.  If your attorneys were worth anything as attorneys, they'd surely tell you this instead of insinuating that you'll get around it through some kind of legal definition loophole, or even that there could be legal consequences for GM if they interfere with Bitcoin transactions (eg. "...Will they? ... probably not if they have competent legal counsel.")   

I'm not actually trying to stop anyone from doing this -- simply pointing it out, in case you happen to be new to GoldMoney you might want to watch out for their occasionally unilateral policy enforcement. 


Frank

Of course the above is something to keep in mind for anyone who runs an exchange.

Annoying. They won't develop a market for their DGC themselves and at the same time won't allow e-currency exchange so that their customers can spend their gold. I guess they're not interested in Goldmoney as a medium of exchange, only as a store of value.

Oh well. I won't be making any more transactions until I've checked with them. Don't want my account closed.

I agree Frank to mind oneself. I talked with two of my attorneys and both concluded that bit coins, legally, do not constitute currency. There is plenty of legislation defining currency and as applied to bitcoins they are not currency. Clause 8 of the User Agreement, it appears, applies to things like Paypal, Liberty Reserve, etc. that deal with currencies.

In the case with BitCoin, the issue centers on what is a bitcoin? GoldMoney can be used to complete transactions for ebooks, mp3s and other legal transactions. There is currently no legal definition of what a bitcoin is that distinguishes it from an mp3, .html file, ebook, etc. Both attorneys think it will take years, if ever, for legislation to define it and it is currently no defined as a currency. There are currently no regulations that make bitcoins illegal. Therefore, GoldMoney can be used to complete transactions for bitcoins just like GoldMoney can be used to complete transactions for an mp3, ebook, car, cups, video games and any other legal transaction.

Now could GoldMoney arbitrarily and inappropriately interpret clause 8 in an over broad way to include bitcoins as currency? Sure. Will they? Who knows but probably not if they have competent legal counsel. But if we know one thing about markets it is that if GoldMoney were to do so then the markets would just 'route around' GoldMoney.

(from here)

Mind yourselves.   If you use GM you already know they're pretty anal about details.   


Frank

For those who have PM'd me... sorry for the delay in responding.  Unfortunately, BOTH of my mining rigs went down HARD right before I went on an out-of-town vacation.  Not sure what the deal is, but it was major.  Neither MB will boot (or anything) now.  When I tried restarting the first one, there was a loud POP! in the PSU  followed by a familiar acrid smell of something electrical that just sh!t the bed.  I unplugged it, and haven't gotten back around to trouble-shooting.

My main concern right now is: HOW THE HELL DO I GET THE BTCs THAT WERE ALREADY ACCUMULATED??!  I pulled the HD and am able to run the Bitcoin program on another computer, but it doesn't show any transactions.  I've got about 10 BTC in there somewhere... is there any way to salvage them or are they gone forever? 

Now there's two contenders for BTC Amazon:

http://www.bitcoinz.ca/
vs.
https://bitcoinworldmarket.com

I love how fast things move in this world!

Well, I doubt you would have to pay a second rent. Perhaps you have a friend or family member that would let you move in and they might even only charge you to split the utilities which you would put in your name for a few months or you could have a bank or brokerage account send your statements there or better yet, both.

Well, I thought of that, too. But unfortunately I won't be able to pay a second rent
in an eligible country just to open a goldmoney account

So once again the people are getting screwed...what a surprise!

I think it has to do with Money Service Business regulations in Germany. The Dutch have also given GoldMoney a lot of grief so they do not open accounts for people residing in Holland.

I suppose the hack would be to have a residential address not in Germany then you should be able to get a Full Holding and be able to send and receive payments.