Topic: Bitcoin HAS intrinsic value. Easy explanation. (Read 453 times)
The term of "value" is just in people's mind, it doesn't have to be only something material or tangible. "Value" is anything that lots of people believe in or agreed on. Does paper money have any value? No more than btc. So it's really a purely intellectual concept that depends on the state of mind of the society.
I also used to think like that, but capital in this market always shifts to the next best option. People have proven to not care about one coin going bust. 51% attacks on coins have also proven that it won't automatically translate into a shift from POW to POS because people believe it's no longer safe. Heck, 51% attacks don't even result in price dumps anymore, lol.
Most participants in this market are nothing like the OG's we had back in the days. If one thing isn't doing well, or isn't pumping, they hop over to the next coin.
Most participants in this market are nothing like the OG's we had back in the days. If one thing isn't doing well, or isn't pumping, they hop over to the next coin.
For shitty coins no, for ethereum, however, considering how many tokens depend on it, if it were to die, all of them would die too, no? It's also a huge cryptocurrency, unlike the others, I'm fairly sure if Ethereum were to collapse for whatever reason, people would exit the market, at least the pros would.
it would definitely cause a massive shakeup in the ICO and collectible sectors as companies scramble to relaunch their projects on another blockchain.
i don't see it happening, though. ethereum is very, very firmly entrenched between projects and security tokens being built on top of it and liquid trading pairs on exchanges, etc. if any existential protocol failure happens, i believe the community will quickly align on a fix and the market will quickly recover. the same would happen for bitcoin too.
Well it is possible, not likely but still possible, critical vulnerabilities can still be found. My point is that it has no intrinsic value because when it dies, if it dies, there is nothing left, the price can drop to 0, the price of gold will never drop to 0
I also used to think like that, but capital in this market always shifts to the next best option. People have proven to not care about one coin going bust. 51% attacks on coins have also proven that it won't automatically translate into a shift from POW to POS because people believe it's no longer safe. Heck, 51% attacks don't even result in price dumps anymore, lol.
Most participants in this market are nothing like the OG's we had back in the days. If one thing isn't doing well, or isn't pumping, they hop over to the next coin.
Most participants in this market are nothing like the OG's we had back in the days. If one thing isn't doing well, or isn't pumping, they hop over to the next coin.
For shitty coins no, for ethereum, however, considering how many tokens depend on it, if it were to die, all of them would die too, no? It's also a huge cryptocurrency, unlike the others, I'm fairly sure if Ethereum were to collapse for whatever reason, people would exit the market, at least the pros would.
it would definitely cause a massive shakeup in the ICO and collectible sectors as companies scramble to relaunch their projects on another blockchain.
i don't see it happening, though. ethereum is very, very firmly entrenched between projects and security tokens being built on top of it and liquid trading pairs on exchanges, etc. if any existential protocol failure happens, i believe the community will quickly align on a fix and the market will quickly recover. the same would happen for bitcoin too.
^ opposite of real intrinsic value or physical value, it actually is wasting intrinsic/physical value atm.
When people say intrinsic value, they mean actual physical value.
wrong..... TANGEABLE!When people say intrinsic value, they mean actual physical value.
because it's a physical object and will exist almost forever.
wrong..... TANGEABLE!intrinsic means its backed by something beyond speculation.
bitcoin DOES have intrinsic value because PoW COSTS something to create the coin. just like it costs somthing to mould a brick or excavate gold.
PoS has no COST because people dont put in value that is lost for its creation. PoS coins just temporarily hold someones value and later release the value of the 'stake' thus no loss/cost.
put aside golds UTILITY value (able to make circuits/jewellery) and imagine that anyman and his dog could easily grab a kitchen spoon and a coffee filter, walk into their own back yard and dig up their own gold at the cost of pennies. gold would not be worth $1k because people can get it for pennies.
same for bitcoin. when in october 2018 it became cheaper to mine bitcoin(drop from ~$6k-$3500), by the time november came those able to make profit at $3500 were happily selling at $3500 and thus that was what people valued it at. now it costs more to mine it, people are bying it for more. right now the lowest/luckiest/cheapest mining cost is ~$5k
people need to realise assets are multilayered.
theres the underlying acquisition cost (asics: bitcoin... excavators:gold)
theres the utility value(what can be done with the asset)
then theres the speculation value(the hype/volitile/FOMO/bubble/correction)
things like PoS coins have no bottomline support for acquisition costs,
same with fiat. thy both are created with just a signature
things like PoS coins may have utility value but thats the difference between a crapcoin(useless) and a viable coin. (has use)
same with fiat. there are laws like minimum wage and taxes. but some fiats die out when useless (zimbabwee dollar)
things like PoS coins have speculative value.. but this can just be the pump and dump temporary hype,
same with fiat. the forex markets speculate on if a nation is prospering and how much one nation is in debt to another
when it comes to PoW coins. if the utility value is high. then the desire to acquire it is higher so the underlying cost to create it gets more value. which is why PoW coins like bitcoin will be more superior than PoS coins
It seems to me that bitcoin has something more important. And this is the trust of people and their investments in it. I think that popularity in the world is also very important. And bitcoin has it all.
No it wouldn't, if ETH disappears people would quickly exit the crypto market because of the uncertainty created by it. It would mean any crypto can disappear at any time and no one would want to use them anymore, that's not intrinsic value at all.
I also used to think like that, but capital in this market always shifts to the next best option. People have proven to not care about one coin going bust. 51% attacks on coins have also proven that it won't automatically translate into a shift from POW to POS because people believe it's no longer safe. Heck, 51% attacks don't even result in price dumps anymore, lol.
Most participants in this market are nothing like the OG's we had back in the days. If one thing isn't doing well, or isn't pumping, they hop over to the next coin.
For shitty coins no, for ethereum, however, considering how many tokens depend on it, if it were to die, all of them would die too, no? It's also a huge cryptocurrency, unlike the others, I'm fairly sure if Ethereum were to collapse for whatever reason, people would exit the market, at least the pros would.
The intrinsic value of money is attached to it physical form.
no, that's completely wrong
People do not buy much more than they need of a given raw material, they may get some extra, but they do not store it for their entire lives; except with money. So, demand as money is added to the demand for using it's raw material.
Copper is similar to gold/silver, and was once a popular roofing material. Gold or silver would do the job far better, as they do not corrode at the same rate as copper. But copper was used anyway, because gold/silver were so scarce and in demand as a store of value that the price would be prohibitively high, and the risk of someone taking your roof apart to sell the gold was too high (a similar problem exists today even with historic copper roofs)
This is why gold or silver were mostly unused for their physical properties across history (apart from the fact they were not very useful metals before the advent of electronics). Demand for gold/silver has always been so high (and supply so low) that using them physically was so expensive that a substitute was needed instead.
No-one was using gold and silver for their physical properties, the demand was driven by store of value only.
Money is not priced by it's intrinsic value. It is priced according to long term storage, where it is not used. It's uses, therefore, have nothing to do with it's market value.
Intrinsic value is deceiving terms.
When we called one thing is “worthless”, the scammer will called it “undervalue”
Rupee is worthless, but the scammer will called rupee is undervalue
Dollar is value able, scammer will call it “overvalue”
They’re good at choosing words, to manipulate you into believing their scams, how gullible are we to simply believe them based on words of mouth.
Very deceiving term how can any one ever reason and try to back it up with details that bitcoin have an intrinsic value, I don't believe so and I know that is a wrong understanding about bitcoin I believe the entire cryptocurrency have no coin/token with an intrinsic value. When we called one thing is “worthless”, the scammer will called it “undervalue”
Rupee is worthless, but the scammer will called rupee is undervalue
Dollar is value able, scammer will call it “overvalue”
They’re good at choosing words, to manipulate you into believing their scams, how gullible are we to simply believe them based on words of mouth.
Intrinsic value is deceiving terms.
When we called one thing is “worthless”, the scammer will called it “undervalue”
Rupee is worthless, but the scammer will called rupee is undervalue
Dollar is value able, scammer will call it “overvalue”
They’re good at choosing words, to manipulate you into believing their scams, how gullible are we to simply believe them based on words of mouth.
When we called one thing is “worthless”, the scammer will called it “undervalue”
Rupee is worthless, but the scammer will called rupee is undervalue
Dollar is value able, scammer will call it “overvalue”
They’re good at choosing words, to manipulate you into believing their scams, how gullible are we to simply believe them based on words of mouth.
No it wouldn't, if ETH disappears people would quickly exit the crypto market because of the uncertainty created by it. It would mean any crypto can disappear at any time and no one would want to use them anymore, that's not intrinsic value at all.
I also used to think like that, but capital in this market always shifts to the next best option. People have proven to not care about one coin going bust. 51% attacks on coins have also proven that it won't automatically translate into a shift from POW to POS because people believe it's no longer safe. Heck, 51% attacks don't even result in price dumps anymore, lol.
Most participants in this market are nothing like the OG's we had back in the days. If one thing isn't doing well, or isn't pumping, they hop over to the next coin.
I’ve been in this space since 2014, and the common criticism of Bitcoin is that unlike gold it has no intrinsic value. I always found this hard to respond to, usually saying things like “they just don’t get it,” etc.
But it finally dawned on me. And the best analogy I can think of is as follows:
Bitcoin is like a brick.
To build a house, you need bricks, and bricks cost money.
To build/utilize the bitcoin network, you need bitcoin (or the bricks of the network).
The more scarce the bricks are, the more they cost.
The greater the network effect, the more demand there is for bricks.
Nothing demonstrated this more than Ethereum during the ICO craze.
ICOs were built on Ether. Ether was the brick.
To participate in ICOs, you needed to buy Ether.
Ether became scarce, and thus the brick became more expensive.
ICOs died, and the bricks became less valuable.
This is the best analogy I can come up with.
I am sorry but I disagree with you. To have intrinsic value bitcoun should has physical form. The intrinsic value of money is attached to it physical form. Gold has intrinsic value because it physical form is useful as jewelry, electronic component and etc. So it is not only just money. Although bitcoin don't have intrinsic value but it still valuable, people have tried to replace gold as money so they create coin, paper money and cryptocurrency. The best form is cryptocurrency because it don't give too much demage to nature. Unlike paper money which need trees as its main cinstituent material. But it finally dawned on me. And the best analogy I can think of is as follows:
Bitcoin is like a brick.
To build a house, you need bricks, and bricks cost money.
To build/utilize the bitcoin network, you need bitcoin (or the bricks of the network).
The more scarce the bricks are, the more they cost.
The greater the network effect, the more demand there is for bricks.
Nothing demonstrated this more than Ethereum during the ICO craze.
ICOs were built on Ether. Ether was the brick.
To participate in ICOs, you needed to buy Ether.
Ether became scarce, and thus the brick became more expensive.
ICOs died, and the bricks became less valuable.
This is the best analogy I can come up with.
Bitcoin is like a brick.
To build a house, you need bricks, and bricks cost money.
To build/utilize the bitcoin network, you need bitcoin (or the bricks of the network).
The more scarce the bricks are, the more they cost.
The greater the network effect, the more demand there is for bricks.
To build a house, you need bricks, and bricks cost money.
To build/utilize the bitcoin network, you need bitcoin (or the bricks of the network).
The more scarce the bricks are, the more they cost.
The greater the network effect, the more demand there is for bricks.
bricks made of what? scarcity is not the only relevant property of bitcoin bricks
the common criticism of Bitcoin is that unlike gold it has no intrinsic value. I always found this hard to respond to, usually saying things like “they just don’t get it,” etc.
it's an abstraction.
That's the reason why it's difficult for people to get, and not necessarily easy to explain. The value is literally made up, it's pretend. But it's an incredibly powerful pretense, as long as the object we're pretending about has money-like properties (Aristotle's 7 properties of money).
you can explain this stuff very exactly, in only one or two sentences. It's an incredibly simple concept. But it's too sophisticated for most people to really get it.
By definition it doesn't. What you said about Ethereum is true, however, Ethereum could stop existing at any point or have some weird vulnerability, etc etc and would stop existing and disappear forever, hence no intrinsic value. Gold cannot ever go down to 0$ because someone somewhere will always be buying it, even if it's just at 1$ and it's not only because it has various uses in real life but also because it's a physical object and will exist almost forever.
If ETH disappears as you stated, some other cryptocurrency will take its place. Just like gold, someone will always buy crypto no matter what due to which it will always have intrinsic value.BTC being a completely digital currency does not imply in any way that it does not have any intrinsic value whatsoever.
No it wouldn't, if ETH disappears people would quickly exit the crypto market because of the uncertainty created by it. It would mean any crypto can disappear at any time and no one would want to use them anymore, that's not intrinsic value at all.
Bitcoin is a building block for the blockchain as a public form of money. Each Satoshi is digitally transferrable and can eventually be used in a society which has densely distributed their Bitcoins to the point which we need to start calling them Satoshis.
https://imgur.com/a/2foTHUY Imagine a invisible jet stream in space (like in water) the things the turtles ride in finding nemo
Planck length
In physics, the Planck length, denoted ℓ P, is a unit of length that is the distance light travels in one unit of Planck time. It is equal to 1.616229(38)×10−35 m. It is a base unit in the system of Planck units, developed by physicist Max Planck.
...
Planck length
imperial/US units 6.3631×10−34 in
so we know the shortest measurable distance, what is the longest measurable distance? it is the inverse of the equation there.
we observe 0000000000000000000000.1% of space atm.
By definition it doesn't. What you said about Ethereum is true, however, Ethereum could stop existing at any point or have some weird vulnerability, etc etc and would stop existing and disappear forever, hence no intrinsic value. Gold cannot ever go down to 0$ because someone somewhere will always be buying it, even if it's just at 1$ and it's not only because it has various uses in real life but also because it's a physical object and will exist almost forever.
as much as i dislike ethereum but it also has intrinsic value. having the possibility of having a vulnerability doesn't change that. vulnerability can exist in anything else including bitcoin too. the problem with ethereum is that its value is a lot less than the current one and it will continue to decline because of its inflation.
^ opposite of real intrinsic value or physical value, it actually is wasting intrinsic/physical value atm.
When people say intrinsic value, they mean actual physical value. Gold has a physical use, actually in the future gold is going to cost a lot more than it does today, it actually will be worth man than bitcoin even tho I am a bitcoin lover, not because the price will be higher, but because in the future we will be a resource biased economy, we will need to be one, it is the only way that we can do proper calculations so we do not get check mated (stuck) onto a planet or stuck in a solar system.
We will need every gram of gold to get to deep space. By then Bitcoin will be replaced by time if we still need a currency and have not figured out that it is a team game we are suppose to be playing. Sorry bitcoin has no physical value, sure you can print it onto something and make it physical but that actually makes more waste that is not needed and is the opposite of physical value or intrinsic value as people like to say.
I cannot build a house with bitcoins, I can with bricks.
I cannot build a rocket or computers with bitcoin, I can with gold.
It`s physical value, if we measure time/duration towards it not fiat , it will be able to stop the $lavery system we have atm, people have physical value and can produce more physical things of value (like food). Actually that physical people value is what keeps everyone alive today, producers. (farmers mostly)
As for now it is the bankers and politicians back door.
The people will catch on, I look forward to it.
Bitcoin will be worth more than gold for about 100 years, Bitcoin will die, Gold will not become the money supply, We won`t need one anymore. We will only need to figure out how much resources we need to get to the next world, and if we do need one, it will be time, But I have faith in my species to understand in 100 years, that we are on a team. We will figure out what causes the greed gene and destroy it in the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQQYbKT_rMg take it from star trek
All the planets are headed towards the core, not just the planets the galaxies. We will have to achieve going faster than light speed in order to not go through the core. Sure we can go away from the core not at light speed and reach other universes, But in order to dodge the wormhole everything is headed to, we will have to achieve speeds that may even be faster than light speed. No one has a real clue how fast everything is going towards this core.
When people say intrinsic value, they mean actual physical value. Gold has a physical use, actually in the future gold is going to cost a lot more than it does today, it actually will be worth man than bitcoin even tho I am a bitcoin lover, not because the price will be higher, but because in the future we will be a resource biased economy, we will need to be one, it is the only way that we can do proper calculations so we do not get check mated (stuck) onto a planet or stuck in a solar system.
We will need every gram of gold to get to deep space. By then Bitcoin will be replaced by time if we still need a currency and have not figured out that it is a team game we are suppose to be playing. Sorry bitcoin has no physical value, sure you can print it onto something and make it physical but that actually makes more waste that is not needed and is the opposite of physical value or intrinsic value as people like to say.
I cannot build a house with bitcoins, I can with bricks.
I cannot build a rocket or computers with bitcoin, I can with gold.
It`s physical value, if we measure time/duration towards it not fiat , it will be able to stop the $lavery system we have atm, people have physical value and can produce more physical things of value (like food). Actually that physical people value is what keeps everyone alive today, producers. (farmers mostly)
As for now it is the bankers and politicians back door.
The people will catch on, I look forward to it.
Bitcoin will be worth more than gold for about 100 years, Bitcoin will die, Gold will not become the money supply, We won`t need one anymore. We will only need to figure out how much resources we need to get to the next world, and if we do need one, it will be time, But I have faith in my species to understand in 100 years, that we are on a team. We will figure out what causes the greed gene and destroy it in the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQQYbKT_rMg take it from star trek
All the planets are headed towards the core, not just the planets the galaxies. We will have to achieve going faster than light speed in order to not go through the core. Sure we can go away from the core not at light speed and reach other universes, But in order to dodge the wormhole everything is headed to, we will have to achieve speeds that may even be faster than light speed. No one has a real clue how fast everything is going towards this core.
https://imgur.com/a/2foTHUY Imagine a invisible jet stream in space (like in water) the things the turtles ride in finding nemo
Bitcoin is certainly more valuable than gold. It can do a lot of things gold cant do.
You tried with the brick analogy ... the only problem is that brick increasing in price would mean that:
1. Bricks become costly for people to use.
2. Nobody would like the increase in price.
3. The number of people using and building with bricks will decrease.
Bitcoin increasing in price:
1. Bitcoin will still be affordable to anyone no matter the price.
2. Most bitcoin owners will like the price increase
3. The number of people using and building on bitcoin/crypto will increase.
You see why the brick analogy is not a perfect one?
You tried with the brick analogy ... the only problem is that brick increasing in price would mean that:
1. Bricks become costly for people to use.
2. Nobody would like the increase in price.
3. The number of people using and building with bricks will decrease.
Bitcoin increasing in price:
1. Bitcoin will still be affordable to anyone no matter the price.
2. Most bitcoin owners will like the price increase
3. The number of people using and building on bitcoin/crypto will increase.
You see why the brick analogy is not a perfect one?
I tried. Oh well.
Bitcoin is certainly more valuable than gold. It can do a lot of things gold cant do.
You tried with the brick analogy ... the only problem is that brick increasing in price would mean that:
1. Bricks become costly for people to use.
2. Nobody would like the increase in price.
3. The number of people using and building with bricks will decrease.
Bitcoin increasing in price:
1. Bitcoin will still be affordable to anyone no matter the price.
2. Most bitcoin owners will like the price increase
3. The number of people using and building on bitcoin/crypto will increase.
You see why the brick analogy is not a perfect one?
You tried with the brick analogy ... the only problem is that brick increasing in price would mean that:
1. Bricks become costly for people to use.
2. Nobody would like the increase in price.
3. The number of people using and building with bricks will decrease.
Bitcoin increasing in price:
1. Bitcoin will still be affordable to anyone no matter the price.
2. Most bitcoin owners will like the price increase
3. The number of people using and building on bitcoin/crypto will increase.
You see why the brick analogy is not a perfect one?
I’ve been in this space since 2014, and the common criticism of Bitcoin is that unlike gold it has no intrinsic value. I always found this hard to respond to, usually saying things like “they just don’t get it,” etc.
But it finally dawned on me. And the best analogy I can think of is as follows:
Bitcoin is like a brick.
To build a house, you need bricks, and bricks cost money.
To build/utilize the bitcoin network, you need bitcoin (or the bricks of the network).
The more scarce the bricks are, the more they cost.
The greater the network effect, the more demand there is for bricks.
Nothing demonstrated this more than Ethereum during the ICO craze.
ICOs were built on Ether. Ether was the brick.
To participate in ICOs, you needed to buy Ether.
Ether became scarce, and thus the brick became more expensive.
ICOs died, and the bricks became less valuable.
This is the best analogy I can come up with.
But it finally dawned on me. And the best analogy I can think of is as follows:
Bitcoin is like a brick.
To build a house, you need bricks, and bricks cost money.
To build/utilize the bitcoin network, you need bitcoin (or the bricks of the network).
The more scarce the bricks are, the more they cost.
The greater the network effect, the more demand there is for bricks.
Nothing demonstrated this more than Ethereum during the ICO craze.
ICOs were built on Ether. Ether was the brick.
To participate in ICOs, you needed to buy Ether.
Ether became scarce, and thus the brick became more expensive.
ICOs died, and the bricks became less valuable.
This is the best analogy I can come up with.
how does this amount to intrinsic value? we're still not discussing anything that's essential or inherent.
in the above example, if there is zero demand for bitcoin (to use its network) then all we're left with is a bunch of useless bricks. in fact, what we're left with is worse than bricks, because bricks actually have some inherent value---they can be picked up and used to build structures, fireplaces, etc. if there is zero demand for bitcoin, they are worth nothing because no one would be using the network.
bitcoin's value is derived from its network, not anything intrinsic. it's entirely dependent on the market's subjective valuation. it's not like gold which always has a base line of demand for use in industry and medicine. gold is not entirely dependent on use as money or SOV, which are network-dependent.
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