Topic: Bitcoin has no future as a payments network, says FTX chief (Read 938 times)

Its ranking do speaks for itself on how bitcoin had been trust up over a decade.It isnt surprising that those no coiners or haters would definitely be targeting about scability issues
that we've been seeing through ages and this one isnt really that surprising.

They could say and talk all they want yet bitcoin was never intended to replace fiat or something like that but rather focusing on that p2p decentralized payment system
which its creator do really talk about.

Expect that there  would really be always those criticisms and negative input and its not something very new and already been anticipated.

I think the lightning protocol is the perfect solution for the scalabilty issue. Even if Bitcoin does not get to become a currency used for day-to-day transactions, its existence is justified by being a great candidate for the best store-of-value instrument the humanity has ever had in terms of portability and security.

I assume that FTX plans to implement some sort of payments program similar to Coinbase to establish themselves as a “payment network” for Bitcoin, so it doesn’t surprise me that he would take that stance. I’m sure he also has plenty of developers aware of the drawbacks of using Bitcoin as a payment network with a substantially higher amount of users. I don’t think this is as controversial a statement as some might think and is instead to be expected from someone in his position.

maybe i should read this ftx founder chat in full. because lately many media have made fud subtly by cutting the words of pro-bitcoin figures as if they were made antagonists. But so whatever bitcoin is still bitcoin will be much more valuable in the future. Bitcoin can be used as a deposit asset such as gold and of course it can be used as a means of payment like money. that's the current fact about bitcoin. there are countless people who transact with bitcoin and of course there are also many who store it as a valuable asset like gold.

Can you stop spamming with poof.io links? is that your service that you're trying to push in here?
Open a new ANN and dedicate it to poof, and then you can write about as much as you want. is that ok for you?

FTX's Sam Bankman Fried became a hero when he saved Sushiswap and became the villain when everyone began to speculate that it was him through Alameda Research who was liquidating everyone. He is presently helping some of the largest cryptolending companies with their cashflow through providing USDC and Bitcoin revolvers hehehe. Will he become the hero again? The cryptospace has a memory of a goldfish.



NEW YORK, June 22, 2022 /PRNewswire/ - Voyager Digital Ltd. ("Voyager" or the "Company") (TSX: VOYG) (OTCQX: VYGVF) (FRA: UCD2) today announced its subsidiary, Voyager Digital Holdings, Inc. ("VDH"), has entered into a definitive agreement with Alameda Ventures Ltd. ("Alameda") related to the previously disclosed credit facility, which is intended to help Voyager meet customer liquidity needs during this dynamic period.

VDH entered into a definitive agreement with Alameda for a US$200 million cash and USDC revolver and a 15,000 BTC revolver (the "Loan"). As previously disclosed, the proceeds of the credit facility are intended to be used to safeguard customer assets in light of current market volatility and only if such use is needed. In addition to this facility, as of June 20, 2022, Voyager has approximately US$152 million cash and owned crypto assets on hand, as well as approximately US$20 million of cash that is restricted for the purchase of USDC.

Source https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/voyager-digital-provides-market-update-301572971.html

I think the idea that "Bitcoin has no future as a payment's network" is an excuse for why 0xBitcoin on Ethereum was founded. They copied Bitcoin and convinced people to buy a fake Bitcoin on Ethereum and said that it was faster. IMO, the best way to scale Bitcoin is bigger blocks or integration with another chain like ICP or Flare.

to be honest i would aggree with this one and also we can take example of dogecoin that has been multiple shilling by elon musk, in my opinion there is two crytpo influencer
1. the get paid for shilling
2. they buy the coin before the shilling so they can sell later on

lets first deal with these few details..
you might want to check it out for yourself and not rely on what another LN lover has told you..
decentralised independence also applies to research. not blind trust of a peer to do the checks for you..

the keys used inside an LN channel are not ones derived from a bitcoin core node. they are made purposefully inside a LN node using a variant whereby the users can reveal their private keys(secrets/revokes) after each channel state change to the partner to be used as a 'penalty method'

2. you also find that the payments. the messages that make 'payments' are not in a bitcoin transaction format.
not only are the values measured in msat. but it has none of the typical in-out layout of a bitcoin raw transaction
your confused between a LN payment and a commitment that happens after. they are 2 separate events.

have a little read of this
https://github.com/lightning/bolts/blob/master/04-onion-routing.md#tlv_payload-format
and https://github.com/lightning/bolts/blob/master/11-payment-encoding.md#payer--payee-interactions

as you can see the messages are not typical bitcoin formats. nor is the value in a sat measure that the bitcoin network will accept.

you will also learn that channel partners do not ever actually send to each other a full bitcoin raw tx format to each other EVER
(there are many bugs and flaws that cause LN nodes to accidental build a raw tx on their side using bad data from the payload/invoice of partner, when trying to translate convert the payload/invoice data into a bitcoin raw transaction o then hold as a possible commitment)

3. el salvador dropped using LN within a couple months, last year.. and is now using a custodial exchange.. as its backend for its chivo wallet (research alphapoint)
so yea do some research beyond the hype media of what the LN lovers pass between each other.. as that hype media is outdated and full of flaws

funny part is.. you were the one saying the payments were made in bitcoin format..
.. you might want to do the research mentioned above about when your "simple math" occurs. and how there are many ways to break the 1000:1 deemed peg that is not actually a fixed unbreakable consensus rule..

as for your thoughts that you still believe LN is a layer of bitcoin like a zesty skin of an orange there to protect and only surround bitcoin.. please please do more research. realise LN is a separate network that bridges between many blockchain currency networks. and wants to be the defacto network everyone jumps into and avoids using the main nets of actual blockchain currency networks.
all offramps to the bridge want people to get away from the bitcoin network and litecoin network where everyone locks up value and only plays with msat in the LN network

by the way its not my theory. its the LN fans sales pitch

@LFC_Bitcoin. Agreed. I thought he would be one of the ethical founders in the cryptospace. However, he said this from an interview for a mainstream website. I am not certain what it implies, however, does he have an intention to bail out some of the cryptofunds and services in the cryptospace? He did this before when he helped save Sushiswap from failure on 2020.

If FTX and Alameda issues a public announcement of a bail out, this might cause a pump on much of the market hehehe.



"I do feel like we have a responsibility to seriously consider stepping in, even if it is at a loss to ourselves, to stem contagion," he said. "Even if we weren't the ones who caused it, or weren't involved in it. I think that's what's healthy for the ecosystem..."

Source https://mobile.twitter.com/sbf_ftx/status/1538518138685464577?s=12&t=iH_StnEokfjakkNbe0Tk3A

Disappointed in him but not unexpected. What do we think a fiat bro will say publicly, at least. He’s the owner of a shitcoin roulette casino, he profits from apes being over leveraged & getting liquidated. His honey is fiat money, I shouldn’t think he’s too bothered about bitcoin, he makes too much money other ways.

In my country, it is because of the regulation that bans Bitcoin as payment (although legal as commodity asset), because Bitcoin is decentralized so it cannot be controlled by the government and government is not responsible for any impact of Bitcoin.

I ma not sure about this, if this is so, there will be many more tokens created, it means that many more shit tokens created.

Assumptions can be sometimes great and positive but most of the time it was wrong and turn into FUD. He can be wrong or not, that was his prediction and market view based on what he observed in the past until today. Well, for us who are too optimistic about Bitcoin will certainly oppose his idea but yes, he got some point that the volatility of Bitcoins makes it hard to know where it will be going. In fact, some big and growing countries still declining crypto. This could be a factor that makes him think about it.

I know that a lot of brands start accept crypto as BTC and ETH! I am sure it will be use for payments!

The man is basing his comments with the way Bitcoin is in right now and yes we have to admit that as far as payments can be concerned Bitcoin is not what it is supposed to be and that is why many are questioning its viability on this aspect. Now, when we talk about payments maybe he can be referring to everyday small transactions because for big transactions like buying a car, a house or anything luxurious I think BTC has no problem in there. In case the challenges will never be addressed fully, then maybe we should be looking at Bitcoin really like a gold...and there is nothing wrong with that per se while still waiting for the appropriate infrastructure that can make BTC as good player in the payment industry.

Agreed. And being honest with everyone, I really thought Sam Bankman-Fried would be one of the ethical founders in the cryptospace. Through Alameda Research, he and his team might have been trading against the users much of the time since the beginning. There are rumors that he made a deal with Jump Capital involving a large percentage of Serum tokens to manipulate retail investors into losing in Luna and UST. I do not have the whole story, however, more details will be shared soon.

I read the headline as : Sam Bankman-Fried has no future as an influencial chief executive according to Bitcoin.

I mean seriously, anyone who is supposedly an influencial figure in crypto should at least understand what Bitcoin is becoming and that there is nothing standing in its way? Does he even take into consideration all the neverending upgrades that Bitcoin keeps going through or that Bitcoin can be scaled in two ways: the blockchain can be upgraded to enable greater throughput
and additional networks, called layers, can be created to allow bitcoin to be transferred without directly using the blockchain.

Which part of this is not scalable?

And the high environmental costs is the argument I hate most. The problem is not the fact that it uses electricity but rather that our current way of generating electricity is extremely dirty and would be just as environmentally damaging even if Bitcoin was never invented. The solution? Green resources and new energy technology.

This is why you can never trust a Bankman.

He is just spreading FUD so he can fill his own pockets like the other fudders with too much fiat.

LN is a protocol. It was built to work with Bitcoin. It can and does work with several altcoins because it is just a protocol so anything that can compatibly link into that protocol will be able to implement LN. Just as higher protocols of the internet stack work with various lower protocol layers of that stack. Doesn't change the fact that LN is literally a layer on top of Bitcoin. It directly uses Bitcoin addresses. LN payments are Bitcoin payments. LN is a 2nd layer for Bitcoin (and others but since Bitcoin is the only money in the crypto world nobody cares about using LN on other blockchains).

Now sure when you use Bitcoin over LN there are different tradeoffs as opposed to using L1. Instead of data, fees, speed being the bottleneck/tradeoff as on L1, on L2 you have liquidity/channel-direction, needing to be online to receive, and needing to not lose the channel data.

- The liquidity/channel-direction problem seems like it can be solved or mostly solved with good node implementations behind the scenes, and payments being split up to be routed I believe is already somewhat implemented or being implemented so that helps with the liquidity routing problem. - Needing to be online could get a little annoying in a world where the average person is running a LN node on their phone and they aren't connected, but it seems like most people keep their phones connected all the time anyway, and obviously for anyone who is running a business in which they are taking payments over LN they are going to have a quality setup so that wouldn't be a problem anymore than it is for any business that relies on the internet.
- Needing to keep an up to date record of the channel seems to be the main technical problem that needs working through. Obviously having a setup that makes regular backups helps alleviate this a lot, but LN should be foolproof on this to really be a first-rate mass payment network. I did hear in a podcast a solution to it that would eliminate any need for watchtowers and any risk of losing channel data, but the person talking about the solution also seemed to be saying this solution would be bad for the base chain, I don't know anything beyond that in terms of what is being done to deal with that tradeoff. Obviously watchtowers are the easy but not ideal solution for this.

I guess the main other thing is that you need to on-board to the LN, but I imagine that will get easier and easier as time goes on, considering it is as simple as a friend setting up a channel with a new user.

LN still has a lot of development to go until it is ready for primetime (I mean like, El Salvador adopting Bitcoin and using LN is extremely early to be using LN as a mass solution), but it is usable now and is a great payment network for Bitcoin. You just have to realize it is a technology that is being used as it is maturing. If LN was some corporate product it very likely would even be released for a few years. But by releasing LN into the wild at a very early stage the protocol and implementations are able to advance with lots of user feedback to make a better payment network for Bitcoin. Just as early users of Bitcoin took the risk of putting money into something that may end up failing leading to loss of money, early users of LN put money into something that has kinks in it that may lead to loss of money.

I'm no expert on LN but I'm pretty sure what i've put here is quite accurate. And obviously the LN is a 2nd layer Bitcoin network is plain enough to understand. I don't even know wth you're taking about when you go on about LN is a world bank lol, that's some funny conspiracy theory stuff you got going there. Get on your tinfoil hat the elites are coming to control you!!  . And the msats are not btc is way overblown. They are just fractions of a sat. The msats are just rounded down to the nearest sat when settling to the basechain - not a big deal, very simple math.

You appear to be making an effort not to understand what is being implied. Similar to Craig Scammer Wright, who I reckon is only acting like he is a stupid person, has a deeper agenda behind the act. Be careful of this and the community should not be so arrogant to underestimate these dumb people. Sam Bankman-Fried is filling his pockets, yes and he will fill them more to use and expand his power and influence not only in the cryptospace, being one of the largest donors in the Democratic National Convention.

Also, he who controls the markets, controls the world and the biggest powers behind the cryptospace are the largest centralized exchanges. This is why it is very important for the community to accept Defi as a development that can bring power back to the developers and the users.

I completely agree, if you are referring to the base layer BTC network. Regardless of the environmental cost or network speed, it will always be #1 because it has proven itself among many others, and I would be skeptical of ANYTHING now or in the future that claims to be better. It can be a means of payment later on if the sender and reciever is not in a hurry, but I understood thats why lightening was developed. Other than that, his (Sam) point is what? We knew this already, but why did he say it?