Topic: Bitcoin in 2019: Are we still libertarians, cypherpunks, and crypto-anarchists? (Read 266 times)
June 21, 2019, 05:15:48 AM
The main reason bitcoin was created is still undergoing process. Albeit bitcoin is a universe digital currency that enable people to acquire or store up their asset. Many believes that bitcoin is created for profit and nothing else.
June 12, 2019, 03:37:39 PM
You don't have to hate banks and traditional finance to realise they're not actually doing you any favours most of the time.
Bitcoin is politically and geographically neutral, immune from meddling and entirely under your control if you wish it to be. None of those are controversial ideas and you don't have to be a foaming nutter to believe those characteristics might be helpful to you.
It might take many more years for people to figure that out. So be it. It'll be waiting for them.
Bitcoin is politically and geographically neutral, immune from meddling and entirely under your control if you wish it to be. None of those are controversial ideas and you don't have to be a foaming nutter to believe those characteristics might be helpful to you.
It might take many more years for people to figure that out. So be it. It'll be waiting for them.
In the last 10 years people were figuring it out too slowly, most of the current users are speculators. Those are great points, but people still scratch their heads when you tell them that, they've been using fiat all their lives and don't really see problems with it, so when you start suggesting that there are problems, people will distrust you. Add here negative experience in form of hacks, malware, lost keys, scams, and you can see how most people choose to stay away from crypto.
June 12, 2019, 02:38:18 PM
Does it matter? Does it beneficial to the ecosystem and the community of Bitcoin? Even though the underlying technologies and the features of Bitcoin support those ideologies, I think we should maintain and support the nature of Bitcoin neutrality principle in order to make Bitcoin survive, and able to rapidly grow the adoption.
Rather than associating Bitcoin with a specific ideology, we should maintain the neutrality which I believe it is ways better than anything in term of Bitcoin ecosystem.
Rather than associating Bitcoin with a specific ideology, we should maintain the neutrality which I believe it is ways better than anything in term of Bitcoin ecosystem.
June 12, 2019, 01:57:46 PM
Those days are long gone, most people are here just to make money. Very few have the principles of less government control and they don't care about all the regulations and laws as long as a profit is made.
It is true most of us in the crypto industry doesn't care about it anymore as long as they could gain profit they wouldn't mind being monitored again .I think those idea of financial freedom is gone and they also used Bitcoin or crypto to take over again they are making their move by implementing KYC or forcing us to unmask our self and show our true identity to continue using trading sites or web wallets.
June 12, 2019, 01:50:40 PM
There are still those kinds of users who are thinking the same thing about the government and the economy and as for me, their belief and perspective have a positive impact in cryptocurrency before. However, our different belief and awareness about the importance of Bitcoin don't affect it too much now since it's resistant and strong enough to face different perspective now.
June 12, 2019, 01:39:51 PM
People now appreciate the importance of bitcoins other roles and functions. It's not just a profitable investment but a multifunctional currency. We are now aware that it could function more than how it used to be. I believe that bitcoin's growth will continue to grow as it reaches most people and huge merchants who would adapt it.
June 12, 2019, 12:49:39 PM
I think that the contemporary world is prone to blurring the differences between ideologies, mixing them up in weird ways. Sure, there are many Bitcoin users that don't care. However, there are also people who used to be neutral but are now feeling more strongly against banks and govs. When you follow the news about what people do and say about Bitcoin, it's hard not to tend to libertarianism, because you see what kind of hypocrites those people are. So I think that Bitcoin and the news around it help people to realize some important things, and the ideology is being spread this way, but it gets united with the views people held before getting to know the crypto world.
June 12, 2019, 12:23:02 PM
Those days are long gone, most people are here just to make money. Very few have the principles of less government control and they don't care about all the regulations and laws as long as a profit is made.
June 12, 2019, 12:09:58 PM
The ideology is still there we have lose some because of the popularity most of the new comers doesn't really care about what it is created for,
Most of them are just here because of the popularity of crypto and because of being able to make profit.
Only few of the Bitcoin user or holder are still here because of Satoshi or those cypherpunks ideas when it comes to crypto.
As you can see most of the user are willing to trade back their privacy for some penny in crypto they are willing to sacrifice what Satoshi gave them they are going back to being centralized again.
Most of them are just here because of the popularity of crypto and because of being able to make profit.
Only few of the Bitcoin user or holder are still here because of Satoshi or those cypherpunks ideas when it comes to crypto.
As you can see most of the user are willing to trade back their privacy for some penny in crypto they are willing to sacrifice what Satoshi gave them they are going back to being centralized again.
June 12, 2019, 11:48:42 AM
We may have lost the ethos of libertarians, cypherpunks and anarchists along the way since bitcoin started to have value and be traded on exchanges. Also, a lot of different people wanting to exploit the opportunity have entered the community, further dwindling the ratio of the 'true libertarians' to those who are only in it for the money. At best, there are still some anarcho-capitalists running around the market every now and then, and I guess that's still a good thing going for a still decentralized cryptocurrency.
We certainly aren't hardcore anti-establishments nowadays, and yeah, I think going mainstream diluted everything that bitcoin stood for since its inception.
Are we still a group of anti-establishment hacker types like Hal Finney and Nick Szabo who can trace their roots to the original cypherpunk communities of the 80s and 90s? Or has the inclusion of other groups such as social democrats, neoliberals, conservatives, and the alt-right diluted the original intentions behind Bitcoin?
We certainly aren't hardcore anti-establishments nowadays, and yeah, I think going mainstream diluted everything that bitcoin stood for since its inception.
June 12, 2019, 11:01:17 AM
Quote
Bitcoin is politically and geographically neutral, immune from meddling and entirely under your control if you wish it to be. None of those are controversial ideas and you don't have to be a foaming nutter to believe those characteristics might be helpful to you.
Exactly. Bitcoin's utility isn't something that is exclusive to only those who agree with the ideas or viewpoints of the first users/public promoters of bitcoin per se.
And given the fact that bitcoin has somewhat arrived in the hands of mainstream investors in the past decade, it's no surprise that no longer are we seeing as much discussion about the ideologies, but rather, more discussion about prices, profit, market, and regulation, which I think is inevitable anyways if bitcoin was ever going to go fully mainstream.
At the end of the day, I don't think that all of this matters too much, as long as bitcoin is able to fulfill its goals as means of exchange, and a long term store of value(despite short term volatility), which it has thus far.
June 12, 2019, 09:23:13 AM
One of the important questions today is how do we "sell" Bitcoin to non-libertarians? Right now all Bitcoin advocacy can be reduced to "it's against evil banks and governments", so what should we say to people who don't view those institutions as evil?
You don't have to hate banks and traditional finance to realise they're not actually doing you any favours most of the time.
Bitcoin is politically and geographically neutral, immune from meddling and entirely under your control if you wish it to be. None of those are controversial ideas and you don't have to be a foaming nutter to believe those characteristics might be helpful to you.
It might take many more years for people to figure that out. So be it. It'll be waiting for them.
June 12, 2019, 09:11:41 AM
There are still many old-school users around, who are skeptical of banks and government, you can see it by how common posts that criticize fiat system are. If it's enough to call them "libertarians, cypherpunks, and crypto-anarchists", then you can say that "bitcoin ideology" is still here.
But there are also people who support government intervention, including in cryptocurrency sphere, while in the early days there were almost no people who supported this ideas. I think they are in the minority now, but the third group - people who don't care about ideology at all, is also growing, but I think most of them are traders and not viewing BTC as a currency or store of value.
One of the important questions today is how do we "sell" Bitcoin to non-libertarians? Right now all Bitcoin advocacy can be reduced to "it's against evil banks and governments", so what should we say to people who don't view those institutions as evil?
But there are also people who support government intervention, including in cryptocurrency sphere, while in the early days there were almost no people who supported this ideas. I think they are in the minority now, but the third group - people who don't care about ideology at all, is also growing, but I think most of them are traders and not viewing BTC as a currency or store of value.
Most people arrived for the dollars and had no ideology to start with. Bitcoin needs to be agnostic about such things because it's not going to get any better.
One of the important questions today is how do we "sell" Bitcoin to non-libertarians? Right now all Bitcoin advocacy can be reduced to "it's against evil banks and governments", so what should we say to people who don't view those institutions as evil?
June 12, 2019, 08:52:31 AM
Most people arrived for the dollars and had no ideology to start with. Bitcoin needs to be agnostic about such things because it's not going to get any better.
As long as people realise that its value largely derives from those old school principles it should continue to thrive however we see constant and never ending attacks on it from various psychopathic children.
As long as people realise that its value largely derives from those old school principles it should continue to thrive however we see constant and never ending attacks on it from various psychopathic children.
June 12, 2019, 08:15:39 AM
In 2009, much of the cryptocurrency community was composed of libertarians, cypherpunks, and crypto-anarchists. They tended to be anti-authoritarian and distrustful of existing financial, economic, and political institutions. It's very likely that Satoshi Nakamoto himself had such beliefs.
It's been 10 years since and a lot has changed in the meantime. Now we live in a world where everyone recognizes the word "Bitcoin". In fact, the phrase "buy bitcoin" was one of the most searched terms of 2017.
In light of such developments, do you think this is still the case today? Are we still a group of anti-establishment hacker types like Hal Finney and Nick Szabo who can trace their roots to the original cypherpunk communities of the 80s and 90s? Or has the inclusion of other groups such as social democrats, neoliberals, conservatives, and the alt-right diluted the original intentions behind Bitcoin?
In other words, did we lose our ideology by going mainstream?
It's been 10 years since and a lot has changed in the meantime. Now we live in a world where everyone recognizes the word "Bitcoin". In fact, the phrase "buy bitcoin" was one of the most searched terms of 2017.
In light of such developments, do you think this is still the case today? Are we still a group of anti-establishment hacker types like Hal Finney and Nick Szabo who can trace their roots to the original cypherpunk communities of the 80s and 90s? Or has the inclusion of other groups such as social democrats, neoliberals, conservatives, and the alt-right diluted the original intentions behind Bitcoin?
In other words, did we lose our ideology by going mainstream?
In 2009,the crypto community was consisted of 100% nerds and tech geeks,who are interested in crytpography,not libertarians or anarchists.
In 2019,the crypto community is just 1% idealists and 99% greedy people waiting for the price to do up.
June 12, 2019, 07:47:10 AM
nowadays most people are in the crypto world because of technology and because of the profits... the ideology is becoming something very small. I, for example, like technology and profits... I'm not worried about ideology, I do not think bitcoin should be better than banks and gold, I think bitcoin should have global acceptance as a means of payment and live next door gold and banks without war
June 12, 2019, 07:15:38 AM
Not all the people will not really understand the true meaning of bitcoin and we must accept that this time. In just a matter of time people will be the one who takes action to understand what is the really intention of bitcoin in our community, though I will admit that it will take a few years or maybe decades for that to happen.
We can be anyone who we wanted in this world. The true freedom is in our hands in this system but we must admit that we still need to grow more.
We can be anyone who we wanted in this world. The true freedom is in our hands in this system but we must admit that we still need to grow more.
June 12, 2019, 06:29:06 AM
Before you ask, not all of them are interested because of the investment aspect. Some of them do actually use it for its utility, to send money abroad or buy services.
The percentage of such people who actually use it as a currency is quite low since majority of the investors basically view it as a store of value like gold and I don't think this will change anytime unless adoption rates rise in a big way over time.Once BTC hopefully goes mainstream at some point in the future, we could see it being used primarily as a currency. The Bitcoin ATMs could have more practical use in such a scenario.
June 12, 2019, 06:02:46 AM
That ideology is still there for quite a number of people, but you have to keep in mind that we wouldn't be seeing such a surge in adoption if that were the only people in this community.
When I look at my friend circle, I've noticed that just about anyone could get interested in cryptocurrency for a variety of reasons.
Some of them are regular people, holding regular jobs, while some of them are web-developers, who I wouldn't describe as cypherpunks to say the least.
Before you ask, not all of them are interested because of the investment aspect. Some of them do actually use it for its utility, to send money abroad or buy services.
When I look at my friend circle, I've noticed that just about anyone could get interested in cryptocurrency for a variety of reasons.
Some of them are regular people, holding regular jobs, while some of them are web-developers, who I wouldn't describe as cypherpunks to say the least.
Before you ask, not all of them are interested because of the investment aspect. Some of them do actually use it for its utility, to send money abroad or buy services.
June 12, 2019, 04:19:46 AM
Bitcoin in 2019: Are we still libertarians, cypherpunks, and crypto-anarchists?
Yes. Why the hell not ? BTCe whatever you want to BTCe !?!
Did we lose our ideology by going mainstream?
Yes and No, although the Quadrilateral Psyops (and those responsible) have most certainly steered the ship a bit of course, methinks.
...
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars
- https://youtu.be/VYV9O02C1tM
Yes. Why the hell not ? BTCe whatever you want to BTCe !?!
Did we lose our ideology by going mainstream?
Yes and No, although the Quadrilateral Psyops (and those responsible) have most certainly steered the ship a bit of course, methinks.
...
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars
- https://youtu.be/VYV9O02C1tM
Jump to: