http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remittance#Top_recipient_countries
Sometimes people suggest if there is high inflation, just buy bitcoin. This would not work as you can only buy bitcoins in countries where there are bitcoins. remittance is the *only* way to get bitcoins to countries with high inflation.
Topic: Bitcoin in India - page 6. (Read 10471 times)
In a few years that will either no longer be true, or bitcoin will be dead.
or Bitcoin will be alive and well and simply not used for remittance from one fiat currency to another?
What will it be used for? If it is used to buy and sell things than it won't have to touch fiat currencies. It is still a remittance regardless of the involvement of fiat.
In a few years that will either no longer be true, or bitcoin will be dead.
or Bitcoin will be alive and well and simply not used for remittance from one fiat currency to another?
Bitcoin sucks for remittance. Yes the tx fee from one Bitcoin address to another is super low, but you have to add the fees for exchanging fiat into bitcoins and bitcoins into fiat which add up and end up the same or more than traditional wire transfers.
A good example of this is presented in this thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-is-the-cheapest-way-to-move-money-from-australia-to-germany-76395
A good example of this is presented in this thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-is-the-cheapest-way-to-move-money-from-australia-to-germany-76395
In a few years that will either no longer be true, or bitcoin will be dead. Exchange fees will come down as the demand for exchange comes down. The more bitcoin accepting businesses, the sooner this can happen.
Bitcoin sucks for remittance. Yes the tx fee from one Bitcoin address to another is super low, but you have to add the fees for exchanging fiat into bitcoins and bitcoins into fiat which add up and end up the same or more than traditional wire transfers.
A good example of this is presented in this thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-is-the-cheapest-way-to-move-money-from-australia-to-germany-76395
A good example of this is presented in this thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-is-the-cheapest-way-to-move-money-from-australia-to-germany-76395
#1 rank, $55 billion for 2010 (estimate) as stated here:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remittance#Top_recipient_countries
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remittance#Top_recipient_countries
Well, inbound remittances ended up being $58 billion for 2010.
$64 billion in 2011
and $70 billion expected for 2012.
Quote
The Reserve Bank of India (RBI) on Friday increased the number of remittances a single individual beneficiary can receive in a calendar year to 30 from 12.
The move is expected to boost remittances to the country in a big way.
Indeed, coupled with the depreciation in the rupee and an increase in the number of white-collar migrants to other countries, this will ensure inward remittances log at least $70 billion during 2012,
To be sure, remittance flows into India amounted to $64 billion in 2011, compared with around $58 billion the previous year, according to World Bank’s Migration and Development report, published in April.
The move is expected to boost remittances to the country in a big way.
Indeed, coupled with the depreciation in the rupee and an increase in the number of white-collar migrants to other countries, this will ensure inward remittances log at least $70 billion during 2012,
To be sure, remittance flows into India amounted to $64 billion in 2011, compared with around $58 billion the previous year, according to World Bank’s Migration and Development report, published in April.
- http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report_rbi-eases-rules-for-inward-remittances-further_1700032
Money transmission laws are very strict in India.
I think it would be difficult to setup a bank account and explain what you where doing without them saying no.
I think it would be difficult to setup a bank account and explain what you where doing without them saying no.
I doubt that this is the only issue. If it were we would have more people from India on these forums as well.
How many people from India are on IRC? I guess a service like bitcoinary.com would also catch on quick in countries with legal hassels?
And one more reason ..
Many (especially in the tech sector) use the English language -- so their access to the software, websites, media, etc is not impeded by a language barrier.
#1 rank, $55 billion for 2010 (estimate) as stated here:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remittance#Top_recipient_countries
TradeHill did have a BTC/INR market but the bid/ask spreads were generally pretty wide.
- http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/thINR#tgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
Bitcoin-Central.net did offer a BTC/INR exchange as well, but they discontinued it -- not sure if it was because of volume being too low or if it had to do with other reasons.
Paxum accommodates wires to India, and they support account-to-account transfers. There are quite a few bitcoiners who still have a Paxum account even though Paxum cut off their relationship with Bitcoin exchanges. It shouldn't be terribly difficult to find someone who would accept bitcoins for a transfer to another Paxum user (from India who then withdraws to their bank in India).
I would expect that at some point the hundi providers (same concept as hawalders, ... or like an unregulated Western Union) will discover Bitcoin and begin to consider it.
The difference is that in the remittance destination country, the roughh equivalent of a "hawalder" can work independently and doesn't need to have any trust relationship with the hawalder receiving funds on the other end.
From another thread:
Lower fees for one.
I'm wondering how long it will take current hawalders to figure out they can use bitcoin to do deals on their own. Bitcoins don't yet have much value for the recipient of a remittance transfer but in bulk they do have value to an enterprising hawalder, such as being useful to pay for purchases made abroad or to sell to a local investor perhaps.
That's the difference between Bitcoin and a Western Union. A WU agent location needs lots of volume to pay for the overhead. An individual who provides a method to cash out your bitcoins can be profitable on every trade. It doesn't need to be a full time operation or need to start out as a part time gig even. There no doubt are individuals with a little extra time and money that will do this exchange "as a favor" to be able to earn the 5% or 10% that doing so will bring. And then word gets out and in the following month there are two recipients who need this favor. And then it is four, then eight, and pretty soon this individual now has this sideline business doing cash-out service.
Also, then consider how basic business sense starts to take over. If I am offering a Bitcoin cash-out service to you, and you turn around and use that cash to pay for your mobile phone refill, then why don't I just start selling to yo mobile phone refills for bitcoins, and earn the profit from that sale as well?
More reading on the subjet:
- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.939331
- http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/3651/153
- http://www.quora.com/Bitcoin/Might-Bitcoin-have-a-success-as-a-hawala-system
Look for Coinapult's SMS Wallet, currently only available in the U.S. and Canada, to be offered in India, or globally even. That enables Bitcoin transactions for person-to-person trading like how M-Pesa is used in Kenya, with nothing more than a feature phone with SMS text messaging service.
- http://coinapult.com/sms-wallet
WalletBit just created a WAP (WML) wallet for feature phones that have WAP data connectivity:
- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--85684
Here's a Twitter feed on the topic (India):
- http://twitter.com/bitcoindia
Many (especially in the tech sector) use the English language -- so their access to the software, websites, media, etc is not impeded by a language barrier.
- Millions of Indians live outside India and send money to/from relatives in India.
#1 rank, $55 billion for 2010 (estimate) as stated here:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remittance#Top_recipient_countries
But India does not even have a Bitcoin exchange of its own! Why not?
TradeHill did have a BTC/INR market but the bid/ask spreads were generally pretty wide.
- http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/thINR#tgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
Bitcoin-Central.net did offer a BTC/INR exchange as well, but they discontinued it -- not sure if it was because of volume being too low or if it had to do with other reasons.
Paxum accommodates wires to India, and they support account-to-account transfers. There are quite a few bitcoiners who still have a Paxum account even though Paxum cut off their relationship with Bitcoin exchanges. It shouldn't be terribly difficult to find someone who would accept bitcoins for a transfer to another Paxum user (from India who then withdraws to their bank in India).
I would expect that at some point the hundi providers (same concept as hawalders, ... or like an unregulated Western Union) will discover Bitcoin and begin to consider it.
You're essentially describing hawala.
The difference is that in the remittance destination country, the roughh equivalent of a "hawalder" can work independently and doesn't need to have any trust relationship with the hawalder receiving funds on the other end.
From another thread:
Where is the incentive to add the extra layer of using Bitcoins at both ends though?
Lower fees for one.
You can only compete with WU and hawala if you can offer the same ease of access - a dealer in virtually every neighbourhood.
I'm wondering how long it will take current hawalders to figure out they can use bitcoin to do deals on their own. Bitcoins don't yet have much value for the recipient of a remittance transfer but in bulk they do have value to an enterprising hawalder, such as being useful to pay for purchases made abroad or to sell to a local investor perhaps.
a stand-alone money transmission service isn't going to be profitable in many regions.
That's the difference between Bitcoin and a Western Union. A WU agent location needs lots of volume to pay for the overhead. An individual who provides a method to cash out your bitcoins can be profitable on every trade. It doesn't need to be a full time operation or need to start out as a part time gig even. There no doubt are individuals with a little extra time and money that will do this exchange "as a favor" to be able to earn the 5% or 10% that doing so will bring. And then word gets out and in the following month there are two recipients who need this favor. And then it is four, then eight, and pretty soon this individual now has this sideline business doing cash-out service.
Also, then consider how basic business sense starts to take over. If I am offering a Bitcoin cash-out service to you, and you turn around and use that cash to pay for your mobile phone refill, then why don't I just start selling to yo mobile phone refills for bitcoins, and earn the profit from that sale as well?
More reading on the subjet:
- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.939331
- http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/3651/153
- http://www.quora.com/Bitcoin/Might-Bitcoin-have-a-success-as-a-hawala-system
Look for Coinapult's SMS Wallet, currently only available in the U.S. and Canada, to be offered in India, or globally even. That enables Bitcoin transactions for person-to-person trading like how M-Pesa is used in Kenya, with nothing more than a feature phone with SMS text messaging service.
- http://coinapult.com/sms-wallet
WalletBit just created a WAP (WML) wallet for feature phones that have WAP data connectivity:
- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--85684
Here's a Twitter feed on the topic (India):
- http://twitter.com/bitcoindia
Money transmission laws are very strict in India.
I think it would be difficult to setup a bank account and explain what you where doing without them saying no.
I think it would be difficult to setup a bank account and explain what you where doing without them saying no.
give them time.
today:
India may be the first fallen BRIC angel: S&P
http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/06/11/idINWLA845120120611
http://businesstoday.intoday.in/story/india-investment-grade-rating-standard-poors/1/185301.html
...
I have seen some India investors looking at Bitcoin...Its only a matter of time.
Open question:
Why has Bitcoin so far gotten zero traction in India?
Some thoughts...
---
- India has more programmers/computer people than the rest of the world combined.
- People in India love tangible assets (gold/silver)
- The Rupee is crashing and the gold price has just hit an all time high in Rupees.
- > 108 people in India have no bank account or otherwise access to financial services.
- Millions of Indians live outside India and send money to/from relatives in India.
- Unlike China, India has no "great firewall".
---
Last week, many Bitcoiners got very excited that the turnover on the Chinese Bitcoin exchange spiked for a few days. Why? Because there are a lot of potential Bitcoiners in China, of course.
But India does not even have a Bitcoin exchange of its own! Why not?
Why has Bitcoin so far gotten zero traction in India?
Some thoughts...
---
- India has more programmers/computer people than the rest of the world combined.
- People in India love tangible assets (gold/silver)
- The Rupee is crashing and the gold price has just hit an all time high in Rupees.
- > 108 people in India have no bank account or otherwise access to financial services.
- Millions of Indians live outside India and send money to/from relatives in India.
- Unlike China, India has no "great firewall".
---
Last week, many Bitcoiners got very excited that the turnover on the Chinese Bitcoin exchange spiked for a few days. Why? Because there are a lot of potential Bitcoiners in China, of course.
But India does not even have a Bitcoin exchange of its own! Why not?
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