Bitcoin in our will, is it safe with lawyers?

Sonia_123

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Quote from: Obim34 on May 09, 2024, 05:25:41 AM

Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 08, 2024, 02:32:43 AM

The two better ways are time/height lock or multisig.

If it is multisig, you will have to let the hires know about it and they have to learn about multisig setup and backups. They will also know the amount of coins on the wallet.

For height/time lock, the hires just need to know about the bitcoin address you will tell them to give you and how they will receive coins on it, that the private keys must be well protected.

I think height/time lock is better. The hires will not know the amount of the coins and there will be no dubious plans from the hires to cooperate to steal the coins.

I'm not too technical to easily understand about the height/time lock and the Multisig but alone doing some research I think about the Height/time lock is more like fixing a certain interval of time on the blockchain to confirm transactions. Which means the person who is to get the will supposing should be aware of the confirmation date of the transactions. It seems the transaction would be from one wallet to another? The beneficiary should hold the private keys to the wallet which is to confirm the transaction, right? But in this space how do we know the number of years left before our departure, do we just fix some random number of years probably a 10yrs interval. I'm inquisitive here, you can aswell thrown in more light.

Instead of having an intermediary which is the lawyer ,why not communicate with your trusted person that you believe will carry out your wish properly when you are no more, since you trust him ,no need for lawyer,he should be in possession of your WILL , which i know you would have instructed him on what to do , giving the lawyer half information which you will still be scared of and your trusted person half might not just be right,it might complicate every thing,all you have to do, is to tell your lawyer how you want your assets to be shared when you are no more.

Fiasem20

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Bitcoin investment na investment wey person fit transfer give em next of kin even without the involvement of a lawyer but if the person feel say e dey necessary then the person fit do so but na the mutual trust nai con be the problem.From my own thought if person wan will him investment give lawyer so that after him dismissal him heir fit benefit from him investment na to create awareness between both parties,the family members go dey aware say their papa/mama investment will dey lawyer hand,but when the person no create awareness between both parties na there some selfish lawyers fit take advantage of the person investment without informing the person family member.But in the case where the family dey aware of their papa/mama investment and the lawyer wan achieve the investment that was willed dem fit use am tarnish the reputation of that lawyer.And before person go will him investment for him next of kin he go don educate them on bitcoin investment,wetin be digital wallet and seed phrase so that nobody go fit deceive dem.

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There are many solutions to it as wallets gives an option for heir but I would rather keep it simple and keep my real heir informed about it as it a do or die situation because if you think your heir will steal it without your knowledge or permission if you share the seed with them then it's a problem of upbringing as they can do similar fraudulent stuff when you are as we see kids tricking their parents into transferring their business as or properties to their name. I think if we have any doubt on our hier then they are my the right heir.

Perfectbaby

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For me the only way to control this is just to hand it over the next of kid directly when at aged time, just like the ways fathers and mothers hand over company their children when they are age of retirement instead of handling over to someone who wouldn't delivered them to the next person even when I am not on earth.
Human being with money can't be trusted for anyone reason and instead of a lawyer to sidephone the money its better the rightful kin inherit it when I am alive to see how they are enjoying their money instead of external person that is not from the family.

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Quote from: Obim34 on May 08, 2024, 02:22:38 AM

Right now even some of our lawyers don turn criminals, dey they very soft on the truth as long they go benefit from the transactions, whereas we want will our Bitcoin where we think say we fit store with 100% assurance say e go later dey delivered to our kin.

As you dey open your Bitcoin wallet, as the wallet dey generate your seed phrase, you fit add some words to that seed phrase that will be passed on to your next of kin. If you know say you no fit keep am well you can put that into a vault that will only be released to your next of kin after your dun pass or give that to another law firm as a will to be given to your next of kin when reading the will.

So see how I dey Invision am for my mind Law firm A go hold the main seed phrase to the wallet and law firm B or bank vault go hold the extra words that you added to the seed phrase. Before now you suppose dun enlighten your next of kin on wetin Bitcoin/wallet seed phrase be and say him go need the two sperate words before him go fit access the Bitcoin in the wallet while non of the other two parties involved go know about each other. Like this you dun protect the law firms from stealing the Bitcoin and also you go dun successful pass down your inherited to your next of kin.

But before then you suppose dun make your next of kin to dey alright so him no go hurry go sell all the Bitcoin to Naira immediately him get access to them.

Ever-young

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Omo, I no trust anybody again for this country o, because anything can happen as far as e concern money, people no mind to do extra things just to get that money and me before I go hands over to my lawyer, i go first text am in so many ways and when he passed, I consider him worthy but that doesn't mean I will trust him completely, that is why they say we should continue praying because without prayers, anything can happen so before you will do anything in this life, let's remember God, if not e no easy to trust or do anything money for this country wey I no understand how e dey be self.

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Quote from: DaNNy001 on May 11, 2024, 03:05:55 PM

Quote from: Mate2237 on May 08, 2024, 03:42:25 PM

Don't put the seed phrase in the will, and only write that you son, or daughter should take the bitcoin form your wallet and give the hardware wallet to the lawyer and give the key to the person that will receive the will so that nobody can use the wallet in that process until the will has been read I. The public and let the layer handover the hardware wallet to the person to withdraw the coins.

Lawyers e no dey trusted again because their ways are not pure. And also teach the person wey you know say you want give the bitcoin will how to operate some of those things. But don't tell the person that you have kept coins for him or her. And I think with this I have given you some tips to go about it.

Normally e dey very easy to thief any dead person Bitcoin as a lawyer because most of those person dey actually keep things like that secret. Bitcoin no be Wattin dem dey broadcast anyhow, Na whye go dey very easy for the lawyer to do away with the person Bitcoin. But this idea wey you give so Na one of the best because when you split the hardware wallet and the seed phrase between you lawyer and pikin or wife, den e go dey hard for the lawyer to do away with the Bitcoin easily. But the drawback Na be say what if the pikin and small one and e be et even k one too well the importance of Wattin dey em hand, or if the mother/wife no dey educated about Bitcoin to know how important e be?

But before di person go die sef him go write the total amount of bitcoin wey go dey the wallet and if the lawyer steal the bitcoin, dem go catch am because the last transaction and the wallet address wey di money go enter, dem go see am. And lawyers are not like that because before any man take a lawyer to write will, him trust di lawyer. And me sef I never see a lawyer e don siphons dead person money or property to himself.

That thing na very dangerous thing and if the lawyer is caught, him go pay dearly for him life so dem dey avoid those kind of things.

DaNNy001

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Quote from: Mate2237 on May 08, 2024, 03:42:25 PM

Don't put the seed phrase in the will, and only write that you son, or daughter should take the bitcoin form your wallet and give the hardware wallet to the lawyer and give the key to the person that will receive the will so that nobody can use the wallet in that process until the will has been read I. The public and let the layer handover the hardware wallet to the person to withdraw the coins.

Lawyers e no dey trusted again because their ways are not pure. And also teach the person wey you know say you want give the bitcoin will how to operate some of those things. But don't tell the person that you have kept coins for him or her. And I think with this I have given you some tips to go about it.

Normally e dey very easy to thief any dead person Bitcoin as a lawyer because most of those person dey actually keep things like that secret. Bitcoin no be Wattin dem dey broadcast anyhow, Na whye go dey very easy for the lawyer to do away with the person Bitcoin. But this idea wey you give so Na one of the best because when you split the hardware wallet and the seed phrase between you lawyer and pikin or wife, den e go dey hard for the lawyer to do away with the Bitcoin easily. But the drawback Na be say what if the pikin and small one and e be et even k one too well the importance of Wattin dey em hand, or if the mother/wife no dey educated about Bitcoin to know how important e be?

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: Igebotz on May 11, 2024, 06:01:40 AM

This is precisely why you cannot rely on a block 20 years from now to mine your BTC at 1000sats or even 2000sats/vb unless you are still alive to do the correct thing or teach your Kin how the Blockchain works, assuming that your Kin will not die before the father. Consider the following scenario: the Father and Kin are killed in an accident, and the timelock coins gone forever

You can always make new lock time transaction every year, or every 2 years. You can even make it 6 months. You can see on some wallets that the lock time is not more than a year, while some are more than that period.

Quote from: Igebotz on May 11, 2024, 06:01:40 AM

We've seen lawyers hand over properties worth billions of dollars but it's your crypto worth thousands of dollars is where you draw the line. Lol.

So you believe your coins can not worth $1 million or more in the future? But this is not what I am implying at all, what I am implying is that you do not need third party for what third party is not needed for. Houses and many physical properties can worth a lot of money but bitcoin is different and needs no third party for inheritance purpose. I see you not more than someone that thinks custodial wallet is better but that is a misconception.

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 10, 2024, 01:47:05 PM

For 1 input and 1 output, $0.06 was the rate for 1 sat/vbyte before bitcoin tokens started to exist. I mean in 2022, or early 2023, transactions of $0.06 were still getting confirmed early as the mempool was not congested at the time. There was times before 2020 that you have to pay more than $1 when mempool was congested.

This is precisely why you cannot rely on a block 20 years from now to mine your BTC at 1000sats or even 2000sats/vb unless you are still alive to do the correct thing or teach your Kin how the Blockchain works, assuming that your Kin will not die before the father. Consider the following scenario: the Father and Kin are killed in an accident, and the timelock coins gone forever

Quote

Third party is the last thing that I can go for. It can not even come my mind because it is not necessary.

We've seen lawyers hand over properties worth billions of dollars but it's your crypto worth thousands of dollars is where you draw the line. Lol.

Princess Leah

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Quote from: AVE5 on May 09, 2024, 09:21:26 AM

Willing your bitcoin assets with an involvement of a lawyer to me isn't a consent of third party yet because while you lives, your seed phrases is just between you and your trustee being your lawyer and when you're no more, the lawyer can sideline it and your family could be left with nothing and they literally can't fight it out because there's no proof that will.

The only option is having a private savings box that may contain your internet private details probably if you've your seed phrase stored online or stored offline in the box and during when you exit, behold, your wallets and privacies can be traced if your family can get reach to the box.
You only need to have a family that respects your Privacies and you too trying to be much logical so they you don't over trust them because anything anytime is possible to happen by any memeber if the family throwing stone to invade.
At some sensitive points in life is so choked that we'd be left with only one option and no other possible ways. That's he scenario here.

It think it all depend on the level of trust between one and their lawyer, there are still good trusted worthy lawyers that are genuine, and still carry out their duties according to the oath they took upon their call to bar, but lately the heart of men (man/woman) is becoming very deceitful, so it would be quite difficult to trust any lawyer with that currently.

Well, I agree with the idea of a saving box but to be specific not the regular local saving box but a safe that has a code in which you can safely store documents including the password which could be handed to your next of kin but not by your lawyer cause the lawyer may still send robbers to invade the house and penetrate the safe.

I don't even think such information concerning the safe should be entrusted to everyone in the family cause in every family there's always a bad sheep that would always kick family laws so it should be given to a trusted person who could either be your wife if you're married, next of kin or mother if the next of kin is still a child.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: Igebotz on May 10, 2024, 01:22:23 PM

Reputation does not equal knowledge - we were paying as little as 0.2-0.5 cent per Tnx in 2016. Today $1 can't even put you into the next block.

Using fiat for the calculations is not right, the best is to use fee rate and purging. When mempool was at over 500 to 2000 sat/vbyte in 2023/2024, the purging has not gotten to 40 sat/vbyte before which is what that matters about height lock or time lock if the hire understand about bitcoin lock time very well.

For 1 input and 1 output, $0.06 was the rate for 1 sat/vbyte before bitcoin tokens started to exist. I mean in 2022, or early 2023, transactions of $0.06 were still getting confirmed early as the mempool was not congested at the time. There was times before 2020 that you have to pay more than $1 when mempool was congested.

Quote from: Igebotz on May 10, 2024, 01:22:23 PM

Use a reputable law firm if you can't trust your family members with the seed phrase and passphrase in different geographic locations. No one is asking you to hire an ex-convict as lawyer.

Third party is the last thing that I can go for. It can not even come my mind because it is not necessary.

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 10, 2024, 12:14:04 PM

Quote from: Igebotz on May 10, 2024, 08:31:50 AM

Do not use time lock for inheritance purpose

It is still the best option that I see and what you post is against what reputed members on technical boards are posting. Multisig can sometimes not perfect enough because it is more based on trust, but people can be unfaithful. You can see the hires have access to the funds and compromise the wallet before their father die. There are better setup to reduce the chance, but that is if they are many in the house. But infidelity is still possible.

Quote from: Igebotz on May 10, 2024, 11:42:21 AM

Give seed phrase to your lawyer and give your Next of the kin the passphrase. Lawyer cannot access the wallet without the passphrase in your Next of kin's hand. Your next of Kin can not so access the wallet without the seed phrase in your lawyer's hand, this way you're safe. Id you do not want to involve a third party you can share the see phrase and passphrase among your family members.

If everything about bitcoin protocol is trustless, why putting trust when you can go the trustless way? What if the person die and the lawyer kidnap the hire, ask for the passphrase, compromise the wallet and kill the hire. The safety of my children can not let me involve third party when I can use time lock. You can even send to individual hires separately using time lock or height lock.

Reputation does not equal knowledge - we were paying as little as 0.2-0.5 cent per Tnx in 2016. Today $1 can't even put you into the next block.

Use a reputable law firm if you can't trust your family members with the seed phrase and passphrase in different geographic locations. No one is asking you to hire an ex-convict as lawyer.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: Igebotz on May 10, 2024, 08:31:50 AM

Do not use time lock for inheritance purpose

It is still the best option that I see and what you post is against what reputed members on technical boards are posting. Multisig can sometimes not perfect enough because it is more based on trust, but people can be unfaithful. You can see the hires have access to the funds and compromise the wallet before their father die. There are better setup to reduce the chance, but that is if they are many in the house. But infidelity is still possible.

Quote from: Igebotz on May 10, 2024, 11:42:21 AM

Give seed phrase to your lawyer and give your Next of the kin the passphrase. Lawyer cannot access the wallet without the passphrase in your Next of kin's hand. Your next of Kin can not so access the wallet without the seed phrase in your lawyer's hand, this way you're safe. Id you do not want to involve a third party you can share the see phrase and passphrase among your family members.

If everything about bitcoin protocol is trustless, why putting trust when you can go the trustless way? What if the person die and the lawyer kidnap the hire, ask for the passphrase, compromise the wallet and kill the hire. The safety of my children can not let me involve third party when I can use time lock. You can even send to individual hires separately using time lock or height lock.

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Quote from: Zanab247 on May 10, 2024, 10:02:27 AM

No, the will is not safe with lawyer because the lawyer can withdraw all the BTC from the person wallet, and he will not include BTC among the assets he will go to present to the children that involve in the will to enjoy their late father assets.

Since BTC assets is different from other assets, I will not include BTC as a will to my lawyer because once your lawyer have the seeds phrase in his hand, and he discovered there is a huge amount of money in that wallet, he can organize some killers to kill the person so that he can have access to the BTC, but if you write the seeds phrase down and show it to your wife to deliver the seeds phrase to one of their children by name, it will going to be safe when someone die.

Give seed phrase to your lawyer and give your Next of the kin the passphrase. Lawyer cannot access the wallet without the passphrase in your Next of kin's hand. Your next of Kin can not so access the wallet without the seed phrase in your lawyer's hand, this way you're safe. Id you do not want to involve a third party you can share the see phrase and passphrase among your family members.

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No, the will is not safe with lawyer because the lawyer can withdraw all the BTC from the person wallet, and he will not include BTC among the assets he will go to present to the children that involve in the will to enjoy their late father assets.

Since BTC assets is different from other assets, I will not include BTC as a will to my lawyer because once your lawyer have the seeds phrase in his hand, and he discovered there is a huge amount of money in that wallet, he can organize some killers to kill the person so that he can have access to the BTC, but if you write the seeds phrase down and show it to your wife to deliver the seeds phrase to one of their children by name, it will going to be safe when someone die.

Well, it can work in other countries where their judges know how the blockchain of BTC work, and they will not take bribe when such case arise in the court and it will be difficult for the lawyer to have the mind to touch the will, but if something like that happen in Nigeria, it will be very easy for the person to bribe some judges to get favor in the case.

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 10, 2024, 06:37:28 AM

Quote from: Igebotz on May 10, 2024, 05:31:48 AM

100sats/vb was not even enough to move 1 UTXO last month not to talk of in the nearest future with all the inscriptions happening on the Blockchain now. You could set the timelock and die even before you let your next of kin knows so how are they doing to know when the transactions triggers to monitor the fees?

If you're to use CPFP on $500 BTC your dad left for you at a fees of 500-1ksats/vb how much would be left in the wallet?

You do not understand how lock time or lock height works. You will have a signed transaction which will only be available at the time or block height that you set. If you understand what you are doing very well, it is the best for inheritance. But like I said, if you know what you are doing.

How do you know the the fees rates X block would mine your coins with in the next 10 to 20 years? Lock time is not advisable for inheritance purpose ( I've already given the best solution above)

The timelock is a forced hodl strategy tools for those who want to hodl without spending for a longer period of time - you timelock your coin for two halving season (8 Years), this way you can no longer spend the coins and if there's a change in fees ( very certain) you can easily use the RBF to bump the fees and get your coins.

Especially in Portugal and Germany where capital gain tax on crypto hodlings exist- If you keep your coins for less than a year you pay tax, so it's best to timelock for X year to avoid paying tax.

Do not use time lock for inheritance purpose

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 08, 2024, 02:55:32 AM

You can see it on wallets like Electrum. You will make a transaction and set the block height or the date and time the transaction should be broadcasted.

Make sense you've given me an assignment actually I hope I would be able to try it on a testnet mode.... setting a short term interval for the transaction to be broadcasted

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Quote from: Cryptomultiplier on May 09, 2024, 02:09:39 PM

Am sure that with putting our faith in a lawyer comes the responsibility of mutual trust, which in turn can make things way better. Having a lawyer serves a very important function and before such trust will be earned, the lawyer must have proven to be effective and mature enough to handle disputes as well as resolve them.

Before a will is placed in the hands of a professional lawyer, there must have been a mutual understanding and trust that has been earned, in that the family members know the lawyer so well and can reach him and trust him to deliver on certain promises.

Bitcoin should be in safe hands when we no longer exists as humans, we planned our path to grow to become one of the very tough humans. We should be able to handle challenges when faced with one and do our best to resolve the issues coming our ways. Our lawyers are available and there sole aim is simply to deliver an excellent job for us. I know it's been really a tough time but it doesn't mean we should give up, rather we should lay our maps and strategies.

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Quote from: Igebotz on May 10, 2024, 05:31:48 AM

How many wallets have this features? Only electrum so yeah it's still in the beta mode and not adopted yet.

There is nothing beta about lock height or lock time. Also it is what knowing that it is not included in bitcoin protocol, and nothing is in beta about it. Lock time or lock height feature is pertaining to the wallet that you are using it. It is the wallet that will let you know if it is in beta or not.

Quote from: Igebotz on May 10, 2024, 05:31:48 AM

100sats/vb was not even enough to move 1 UTXO last month not to talk of in the nearest future with all the inscriptions happening on the Blockchain now. You could set the timelock and die even before you let your next of kin knows so how are they doing to know when the transactions triggers to monitor the fees?

If you're to use CPFP on $500 BTC your dad left for you at a fees of 500-1ksats/vb how much would be left in the wallet?

You do not understand how lock time or lock height works. You will have a signed transaction which will only be available at the time or block height that you set. If you understand what you are doing very well, it is the best for inheritance. But like I said, if you know what you are doing.

Topic: Bitcoin in our will, is it safe with lawyers? (Read 359 times)