Topic: Bitcoin is 88% premine to kids born today 100% to kids born in 2142 - page 2. (Read 484 times)

You don't know what "premine" means.  It is as if I said "I want to rob X" and I defined "rob" as give some cookies to X when everyone else understands it is taking them.  It helps to understand the terms.

1.  It is distributed to favored groups every year by inflating the value away to pay for things.  Somewhere between 3% and 1,000,000% depending on the nation.  
2. So fiat is therefore not a premise since they print more every year and distribute it.
3. Good luck with that.
4. So you change what you said, okay.

Sounds like someone is butt hurt they were too busy doing something else and only found bitcoin.

Why should that matter to the vast majority of the Bitcoin users? Less than 1% may have tried their luck with mining Bitcoins. So at least for people like me, it doesn't matter whether the premine is 88%, 98% or even 100%. We are fine with such high premine levels. The miners can whine as much as they want, but the algorithm is not going to change. They needs to be satisfied with whatever reward they are getting right now.

 it is mined 15 million coins in 2 years, makes the total supply %70 mined with early ones. So few mined makes it premine,instamine..Whatever you call it. it is not FAİR.

 Satoshi Nakamto didnt invent Bitcoin for those early nazi-maxis to be the new rich elite,block and badmouth every developer and project than bitcoin.

  i am sure Satoshi has a surprise for them.

Here's what would happen if everything in your plan went as you imagined: I'd get a coin every heartbeat (or second) and at one point, I'll be giving it to someone else for something in exchange (food? money?). Someone, will wake up one day and say "hey, I want to do business with this coin!" and start selling goods to a bunch of people for your coins. In the end, you and a few dozen/hundred/thousand others will pay that guy and wealth inequality will still exist.

To have a fairly distributed supply means not allowing businesses or individuals to try hoarding coins. That means either everyone will have to reject the existence of exchanges as well or your coin will be centralized and never allow hoarding and exchanges to exist. And the latter means censorship or, if each of us should keep their own coins without ever selling/moving them, the coins would have zero value because they'd be useless. If a coin of yours is worth $1 and a multi-millionaires believe there's insane potential for investment, they may purchase a million coins from multiple people. Inequality. We'd only get back to your previous "crypto - fiat" link.

No matter how you take it, the human greed will never let fairness exist. Otherwise, today we'd be living in an utopian world. We could, but at one point there will still be someone who'll want to be in advantage against others and there goes the fairness you've been trying to form.

And this topic is the best you could do?  If this is what 12 years of knowledge and understanding looks like, we're all going to be long dead before you get your coin off the drawing board.  Be honest, you clearly haven't been following Bitcoin for that long.  You'd be better informed than this.



I'm just injecting a healthy dose of realism into the discussion.  The conversation may have gone better if you had come to us with an actual solution rather than just vague, idealistic wishful thinking.  You've made it clear what you think is wrong, but you have absolutely no idea how to do it right.  Everything you want to change has consequences. You appear to be completely oblivious to that fact.

It's definitely possible to have a coin with a fair distribution, but if you focus on that one aspect to the exclusion of all else, it's going to be a shitcoin.  I've witnessed a thousand of them and I don't see anything different about you that convinces me you can do any better.

Sorry.  You're just not that persuasive.

1.A cryptocurrency which is easy to be mined by lots of people will be pretty much worthless.
Mining costs are an important part of the overall value of Bitcoin.If it was really easy to mine Bitcoins,then would you even care about buying BTC?I don't think so.
2.All the "biorecognition" technology is still at a very early stage.Maybe in the future,people will use their iris,DNA or fingerprints to pay for goods,instead of wallets and addresses,but not today.
I don't get your point about Bitcoin being "88% premined to kids born today".Can you explain more?

Grin doesn't solve that at all.

The problem isn't the monetary policy or the financial system.

The problem is the people.

Every new generation wants a fresh start and free money and want to ignore anything that happened before them.

In this case, by the year 2050, there would be shitton of Grin floating around.

They would rather create another and be the early investors instead of joining the GRIN ecosystem.  

It is a different story if you are implying that there will be so many GRIN's and it will be near worthless just like FIAT so everybody will be using it without second thoughts. (doge does it already btw) Even then what really counts is how much share you own from the total money supply and having enormous inflation would still bring the same end result as FIAT did > you'll be poor and will have greater chances of becoming rich with starting your own new thing.

The calculation is simple
You can have some creating the supply or you can have all creating the supply
So what do you want? be a slave to a central banker, or create the supply yourself?

Fee reward could be used to fund space exploration, roads, healthcare, public pools, parks and other things not just pay miners to do retarded hashes.

No, it`s 100% premined in 2142 to kids born that year and what if there is no transactions for a fee reward? seems most transactions happen off chain anyways.

The calculation is wrong.

The OP assumes that mining reward includes only the block reward (i.e BTC6.25 per block). But that is not the case, as it includes the fee reward as well. In short:

Mining reward = Block reward (BTC6.25) + fee reward (BTC0.20-BTC2.00)

So the "premine" amount is definitely not 88% and it is much lower. It is impossible to accurately measure this metric, as we can't predict the future fee levels. But as more and more people use Bitcoin, the fee reward will go up and eventually it will constitute for the majority of the mining reward.

This is bitcoins future to zoomers bud.
https://steamcommunity.com/market/listings/489940/STG-44%20%7C%20Shroud%20Signed

I been going on about this for 12 years, they always make up some bullshit of how it wont work, people are so used to this bull$hit we got going on they don`t know what freedom is.

This is bitcoin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7PAMgNEtSY
People are released from 1 cage to another and think they are free.

Wake up you stupid fucks. The central bankers are still wining, they all should of been hung in 1971. I have a way to beat them without bloodshed although they should be gutted. We should find the central banking gene sequence and launch that shit into the sun, all of their offspring need to go.

Also I see your point about using the word premine, the eth thing was a joke, but the truth is, it is a 100% premine to our great, great, great, great offspring, they are going to think we were not so great.

I have been arguing about this, however, it only falls on deaf ears. Many of us are certainly in denial or do not understand, I reckon.

This might be the moment for everyone to begin to read on cryptocoins and monetary policies. This one by Grin has certainly opened my mind that there might be other solutions.

https://github.com/mimblewimble/docs/wiki/Monetary-Policy

It is naive to accept a supply you don`t mine at the same rate as the one you are trading with.  Nah, it`s just plain stupid.

Then first show us how you're going to secure it without mining.  It all sounds very noble, but it's also a fantasy.  If it was as easy as you make it sound, someone smart would have done it already.  There are some extraordinary intellects in the crypto community, who after more than a decade still haven't found a way to make a rival cryptocurrency which people desire more than Bitcoin.  There are obstacles you haven't recognised yet that are barriers to your success.  Those of us who have been around a while have seen it all before.  Everyone wants to believe they can do better, but they don't understand how it even works yet.  I can't help but say what you're proposing sounds a little naive.

You misunderstand what a premine is... hard to blame you because the choice of words is confusing.

In a premine coins are created in a way that doesn't give access to the public but instead reserves it to the exclusive benefit of the creator(s) of the system.

Bitcoin was public from the very first block (which was created hours after the software was released), the genesis block output is not spendable.  So *every* Bitcoin that exists was available for anyone interested to come get it-- bitcoin was announced long before the software and publicized in many applicable places.

Compare that to ethereum where 72 million coins were mined out of thin air and given to the creators of ethereum which they then kept or sold for their own personal profit, as they saw fit. No matter how informed or interested you were you could not obtain these coins except by shoving your valuable money into the private pockets of the ethereum creators (and in their initial sale they even forbid US residents from buying from them because they knew what they were doing was illegal and didn't want US authorities going after them, they even relocated to Switzerland). Moreover, after the fact they continued to mislead people or outright lie about the fact of their premine.

If you can't see the difference between someone keeping something for themselves to profit from it  vs  you not being around (or interested) personally to participate then I don't think anyone can help you.

Interesting take on bitcoin.

What you are trying to say is,

Just like how today's zoomers dislike any boomer assets (gold, FIAT, stocks etc) and buying crypto;

Tomorrow's zoomers will dislike today's hot investments (crypto) and will find something else to invest.

Makes sense.

But if nobody buys somebody else's bags and everybody tries to sell their bags to somebody else...

What then?

Yes the gold that is already mined is premined to kids not born yet. I would say it is premined because it is owned by someone else and you have to buy it from them.

What do over 60% of the people already live off of, welfare and disability. Imagine a global time faucet if you will. Instead of governments giving handouts a system does. Why let a few create the supply over everyone?

You can`t stop your heart from beating. You give it out already for free bud.

It`s not impossible, I`ll show you. It will be fair and legit to all.

I know bitcoin is backed by nothing, at least time, waiting, elapsed duration would back a universal time distributed coin. You know how it takes time to grow my crops, and time to harvest gold and time to mine bitcoin.

I wouldn't say Bitcoin is "premined". If that's the case, then imagine how much gold has been "premined" already. Premine means being mined before (pre) its public launch.

So if a million people used your coin, there would be an inflation of 1 million coins per second or do I not get it right?

This would be more concerning imo than giving up my name/address. The address and name are information you can change if you ever really need to. Fingerprints, the IRIS and the DNA are completely unique and would pose a big risk from a privacy perspective.

Good luck creating complete fairness, because achieving it seems quite impossible tbh. If you can do that, props to you. But so far, it's all just fairy tales. Try bringing up a real project and see how that works out.

I wouldn't say so. Bitcoin is not "backed" by fiat. If you launched your own coin, it'd be simply impossible for it not to have a value in fiat. You could officially make it so that one coin of yours is worth 1 carrot all the time - but a carrot has a USD price as well. Get it? Like, almost anything out there can be valued in USD at this point. It's inevitable. Bitcoin had no USD value back in 2008-2009. It's just that the community wanted to have it worth something because it does provide some amazing features never seen before.

1.  That's not what "premine" means.  That's just ordinary, regular mining.  Ironically, many of the altcoins that have tried to emulate your "equal distribution" ideals actually employed a developer premine so that they could allocate funds as they saw fit.

2.  So, your coin wouldn't be able to have a fixed supply if you want equal distribution.  You would have to create more coins forever to take into account every new person that is born.  The supply would expand forever, diminishing the value of every coin that existed before.  Many consider a limited supply advantageous.  Scarcity helps value, etc.

3.  Good luck with that.  I'd recommend learning about the alignment of incentives before you get started, though.  Mining isn't just the method by which emission occurs, it's also what secures the system.  If everyone is equal in your system, there will be no advantage to being a miner.  With no incentive to secure the chain, this will likely result in a weak and centralised system, prone to attack.

It doesn't work like that OP. Premine is when a coin is mined by developers and this makes them wealthy in coin before the launch.

Bitcoin was distributed among users, so it was more like it became airdropped to investors along the way, but even this is a bad way to compare it to a premined coin. There's no common ground here.