Bitcoin is a revolutionary currency but a fairly inefficient payment network - page 2.

eternalgloom

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Quote from: odolvlobo on October 18, 2016, 08:43:28 PM

According to Blockchain.info the estimated transaction volume over the last 24 hours was about 343,500 BTC, and the total mining revenue was 2000 BTC. The cost of the Bitcoin payment system is about 0.6% of transaction volume.

Visa's yearly transaction volume is about $3300 billion, while its revenue is about $14 billion. The cost of the Visa network is about 0.4% of transaction volume.

Visa is currently more efficient than Bitcoin, but I expect that to change in the future.

This is one of the most interesting points made in this thread.

We should expect transaction volume to go up and mining volume to go down the next couple of years. Even if this weren't the case, I'd say that Bitcoin is still pretty efficient as a payment network since it's currently just 0.2% more costly than Visa, one of the biggest payment networks out there.

I'd also like to see the numbers for Mastercard, I'm guessing they're processing even more than Visa, but I could be mistaken.

Anyway, aside from the comparison with Visa, if you compare Bitcoin to the regular banking system, I'd say it's more efficient for the end-user. Transactions go through almost instantly, if you add enough fees, compared to waiting a couple of days for bank transfers.

RocketSingh

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As the original statement was made by GMaxwell, I'd expect him to take part in the conversation...

pereira4

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Quote from: xdrpx on November 11, 2016, 12:45:06 PM

Thinking about it, I would say No, Bitcoin is not an inefficient payment network. Once the news started getting out on how to carry spam attacks on the network at ease, those larger whales could abuse the network by spamming the network and filling the block size quickly. I would say this does make Bitcoin slow to process and confirm, but it is still efficient considering how decentralized it is and that you get to pay from your mobile wallet at ease at any Bitcoin accepting merchant. You'll notice that a lot of sidechain tools are proposed to be out right after segwit especially Lightning networks which could really help with the block size issue and confirmation concerns. It's efficient considering how stable its price is these days and also provides good reliability to those who'd want to accept Bitcoins as a payment method.

Just think about it, you need a decentralized currency by which you could be your own bank and something that is of higher value and accepted by many (more than any other altcoins). It's just the start folks! there's more to improve.

It is fine but we are talking about mainstream levels of usage.... for that it's just not possible to do onchain, we would need a second layer solution like the lightning network, anything else just doesn't cut it, and we can't keep raising the blocksize to accommodate fast and cheap transactions on-chain all over the world because that would make the network useless in terms of decentralization, wereas LN+conservative approach on block size is still decentralized.

dothebeats

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Quote from: Ryan Dugan on November 03, 2016, 10:39:31 PM

Lol omg... Most people are saying yes. Grin

Then why you here ? If everyone used bitcoin then amount you would pay would just be the donbertion of your local fiat currency. I think bitcoin maybe does work better with fiat still around ? I say this because different countries use different currency and bitcoin is only one currency.

You must understand that there are flaws in this system that needs to be worked on, or somehow find a way to alleviate the sluggishness of some parts so that it would not outweigh what good can bitcoin do. Most of us here believe in the project, it's just that there are some things in the whole protocol that still needs to be developed so that we could have a reliable currency in our hands.

LLec

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How is it non-efficient?
I have found it to be faster to use than credit unions and even bank wire transfers.
So I don't see the reasoning behind this rather bold statement that is made here on a bitcoin forum none the less. Undecided

BitcoinExchangeIndia.com

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Almost 2 months over since the poll was created. It seems, people are really divided here regarding what they want from bitcoin.

Milkduds

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Off chain aspects seem to be a real issue for me and having a way to achieve this would really help speed up transactions and spread use.
The problem is hard to for me as a layman to figure out and I think it would have already been achieved if it was simple task.

Would love nothing more than to some how pre confirm my bitcoins to use in day to day transactions on even a limited scale of transactions under $20.

MMA

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Quote from: darklus123 on November 09, 2016, 12:22:52 AM

I do agree to this one. Mainly the current problem right now by a traveller is that they do have to find an exchanger first before thwy can purchase in that certain place. Now imagine bitcoin as a globally accepted currency everytime you travel you can easily pay your dinner, your travel fees etc without even thinking of the exchangers and its fees

yes i am agree with you, bitcoin is really a global currency and you can use it any where and is more easy to exchange if you need the feel to exchange it in to fiat, it is more convenient than any other currency of of the world.

xdrpx

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Thinking about it, I would say No, Bitcoin is not an inefficient payment network. Once the news started getting out on how to carry spam attacks on the network at ease, those larger whales could abuse the network by spamming the network and filling the block size quickly. I would say this does make Bitcoin slow to process and confirm, but it is still efficient considering how decentralized it is and that you get to pay from your mobile wallet at ease at any Bitcoin accepting merchant. You'll notice that a lot of sidechain tools are proposed to be out right after segwit especially Lightning networks which could really help with the block size issue and confirmation concerns. It's efficient considering how stable its price is these days and also provides good reliability to those who'd want to accept Bitcoins as a payment method.

Just think about it, you need a decentralized currency by which you could be your own bank and something that is of higher value and accepted by many (more than any other altcoins). It's just the start folks! there's more to improve.

jak3

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yes i agree on this but when i rethink on this i find an answer to one of my doughts that why will bitcoin price gets increased when more and more people join the network.so the ans is as you can see the bitcoin is dividen upto 8smaller units and total bitcoin in network is 21million bitcoin so each coin's price will increase when more people join the network

pereira4

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Quote from: RocketSingh on November 11, 2016, 11:05:44 AM

Quote from: pereira4 on November 09, 2016, 11:19:32 AM

Quote from: Snorek on November 03, 2016, 10:50:27 PM

Quote from: Ryan Dugan on November 03, 2016, 10:39:31 PM

Lol omg... Most people are saying yes. Grin

Then why you here ? If everyone used bitcoin then amount you would pay would just be the donbertion of your local fiat currency. I think bitcoin maybe does work better with fiat still around ? I say this because different countries use different currency and bitcoin is only one currency.

We are here because we believe in bitcoin and I am sure that it can evolve into perfect payment network. It is not that current version or protocol is final.
SegWit just been added, if miners will accept it then it will be the biggest update to bitcoin network up to date. I am not even talking about of Lightning Network here.

The only realistic chance of Bitcoin becoming a currency that has trillions of transactions per second (probably what a worldwide currency that gets used at a dollar/euro/yen level would be like) is through Lightning Network type of solutions. No amount of blocksize increases will ever get us anywhere without it.

Not many here do realize this basic.

It seems like no matter how many times this is repeated, some people are still deluded and think we can raise the blocksize and keep having onchain cheap and fast transactions for life. Unfortunately this is not going to happen, there will always be a fee market and limitations in order to keep the nodes decentralized.

RocketSingh

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Quote from: pereira4 on November 09, 2016, 11:19:32 AM

Quote from: Snorek on November 03, 2016, 10:50:27 PM

Quote from: Ryan Dugan on November 03, 2016, 10:39:31 PM

Lol omg... Most people are saying yes. Grin

Then why you here ? If everyone used bitcoin then amount you would pay would just be the donbertion of your local fiat currency. I think bitcoin maybe does work better with fiat still around ? I say this because different countries use different currency and bitcoin is only one currency.

We are here because we believe in bitcoin and I am sure that it can evolve into perfect payment network. It is not that current version or protocol is final.
SegWit just been added, if miners will accept it then it will be the biggest update to bitcoin network up to date. I am not even talking about of Lightning Network here.

The only realistic chance of Bitcoin becoming a currency that has trillions of transactions per second (probably what a worldwide currency that gets used at a dollar/euro/yen level would be like) is through Lightning Network type of solutions. No amount of blocksize increases will ever get us anywhere without it.

Not many here do realize this basic.

pereira4

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Quote from: Snorek on November 03, 2016, 10:50:27 PM

Quote from: Ryan Dugan on November 03, 2016, 10:39:31 PM

Lol omg... Most people are saying yes. Grin

Then why you here ? If everyone used bitcoin then amount you would pay would just be the donbertion of your local fiat currency. I think bitcoin maybe does work better with fiat still around ? I say this because different countries use different currency and bitcoin is only one currency.

We are here because we believe in bitcoin and I am sure that it can evolve into perfect payment network. It is not that current version or protocol is final.
SegWit just been added, if miners will accept it then it will be the biggest update to bitcoin network up to date. I am not even talking about of Lightning Network here.

The only realistic chance of Bitcoin becoming a currency that has trillions of transactions per second (probably what a worldwide currency that gets used at a dollar/euro/yen level would be like) is through Lightning Network type of solutions. No amount of blocksize increases will ever get us anywhere without it.

JeffBrad12

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Quote from: pooya87 on November 09, 2016, 12:27:18 AM

Quote from: darklus123 on November 09, 2016, 12:22:52 AM

I do agree to this one. Mainly the current problem right now by a traveller is that they do have to find an exchanger first before thwy can purchase in that certain place. Now imagine bitcoin as a globally accepted currency everytime you travel you can easily pay your dinner, your travel fees etc without even thinking of the exchangers and its fees

that is only adoption dependent which is irrelevant to this topic. the fact that you can not exchange or even spend bitcoin is because it is not yet adopted everywhere.

this topic is about efficiency of bitcoin to act as a payment network and handle the same number of transactions which other counterparts are handling. which i half agree with and half disagree

Seems like a lot of the person are not understand about the title of this place especially about who are just searching more and more post count. Cheesy

Not efficient, that's the suitable word for bitcoin in this time, even the other payment giving instant for sending some amount. even we are need waiting for a half hours for that.
Efficient in the speed? it's not.

davis196

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Quote from: RocketSingh on October 18, 2016, 06:21:29 PM

Bitcoin is a revolution currency but bitcoin is a fairly inefficient payment network. The latter is a perfectly fine consequence of the former. If people turn this on its head and try to market bitcoin as a payment rail where the currency is an unfortunate requirement, it would be immediately out competed in the market by better payment systems which are fundamentally more scalable than the decentralized Bitcoin system or which don't require costly and unpredictable currency conversion.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/57zhd2/another_ridiculous_claim_from_lukejr_in_the/d8wb4hl

Bitcoin is inefficient payment method because it`s irreversible.

If bitcoin had to compete with the reversible payment methods all the people will choose the reversible

payment methods.This is normal.

I still prefer bitcoin.

robocop3

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Yes, bitcoin is a near perfect currency on the on-chain settlement layer but very inneficient as payment network.Mainly the transaction times, meaning the confirmation times, are quite literally the only issue I have with Bitcoin right now, to be honest. Everything else works fine for the most part, and nothing else has to be changed. Getting quicker transaction times, though, kind of requires mucking about with the mining algorithms, which can prove to be detrimental very quickly.
many people used it not only for as currency but they used it for many reason, some used it for gambling some used it for trading, so even though it has disadvantage in payment network but it also has a lot of advantage that keep bitcoin alive

clickerz

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Quote from: darklus123 on November 09, 2016, 01:05:42 AM

Nope, in my opinion still adoption affects the efficiency of btc. Of course, the more people adopts bitcoin then there would be someone that can build another system that handles bitcoin payment that makes it partly relevant

I agree also that maybe it is the adoption rate. Though it is becoming popular now, but still not a mainstream.Still we are getting there,and we as a community has a greater role in it.

darklus123

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Quote from: pooya87 on November 09, 2016, 12:27:18 AM

Quote from: darklus123 on November 09, 2016, 12:22:52 AM

I do agree to this one. Mainly the current problem right now by a traveller is that they do have to find an exchanger first before thwy can purchase in that certain place. Now imagine bitcoin as a globally accepted currency everytime you travel you can easily pay your dinner, your travel fees etc without even thinking of the exchangers and its fees

that is only adoption dependent which is irrelevant to this topic. the fact that you can not exchange or even spend bitcoin is because it is not yet adopted everywhere.

this topic is about efficiency of bitcoin to act as a payment network and handle the same number of transactions which other counterparts are handling. which i half agree with and half disagree

Nope, in my opinion still adoption affects the efficiency of btc. Of course, the more people adopts bitcoin then there would be someone that can build another system that handles bitcoin payment that makes it partly relevant

pooya87

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Quote from: darklus123 on November 09, 2016, 12:22:52 AM

I do agree to this one. Mainly the current problem right now by a traveller is that they do have to find an exchanger first before thwy can purchase in that certain place. Now imagine bitcoin as a globally accepted currency everytime you travel you can easily pay your dinner, your travel fees etc without even thinking of the exchangers and its fees

that is only adoption dependent which is irrelevant to this topic. the fact that you can not exchange or even spend bitcoin is because it is not yet adopted everywhere.

this topic is about efficiency of bitcoin to act as a payment network and handle the same number of transactions which other counterparts are handling. which i half agree with and half disagree

darklus123

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I do agree to this one. Mainly the current problem right now by a traveller is that they do have to find an exchanger first before thwy can purchase in that certain place. Now imagine bitcoin as a globally accepted currency everytime you travel you can easily pay your dinner, your travel fees etc without even thinking of the exchangers and its fees

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