Bitcoin is a Store of Value - page 2.

witcher_sense

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on April 28, 2020, 04:46:08 AM

But it IS very useful for buying "goods". Especially for buying "goods" like Heroin. No one can stop you.

I believe you also made the point I'm making, censorship-resistance.

Cash is also useful for buying plenty of things including illegal ones. And it even doesn't need decentralized systems in order for cash to not be controlled and stopped. But this doesn't mean everyone would use cash for buying illicit stuff. It is money that is why you can buy everything you need and everything that has market value. If it were impossible to buy something useful with using of cash, it wouldn't be called money. Exactly the same happens to bitcoin. Bitcoin as a good example of money, probably the best money ever created by humans, can be used for buying both good things and not so good things. Otherwise, it wouldn't be money.

tbterryboy

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You're saying the truth. Most people who are complaining about Bitcoin are not considering the long term price. They are only looking at the short term movement, and I do understand their reactions are based on when they started investing their money and started experiencing loss. Anyone that invests in cryptocurrency at a rate that is low, and HODL it for a long term, they will be able to make profit.

Right from the beginning, if you check the all time chart, you will notice that the lowest in every year is usually higher than the lowest for the past years just like you have explained, but people are not looking into that.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: witcher_sense on March 20, 2020, 04:34:34 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on March 20, 2020, 03:45:22 AM

One of Bitcoin's main feature that gives it its utility is censorship-resistance, which requires it to be decentralized. Would Bitcoin have value if decentralization was removed, and be a "slow Paypal"?

Decentralization of Bitcoin is one of the main features for sure, but it isn't the only feature that gives value to bitcoin. Decentralized system itself is not very usefull for doing exchanges for goods. Desentalization helps to push monetary properties of Bitcoin through any obstacles such us borders, regulations, lack of banking services etc.

But it IS very useful for buying "goods". Especially for buying "goods" like Heroin. No one can stop you.

Quote

So, from my point of view, what makes bitcoin truly valuable is a combination of credibility of its monetary properties and bitcoin's ability to express these monetary properties through everything trying to stop that expression.

I believe you also made the point I'm making, censorship-resistance.

danggoron

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Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on March 19, 2020, 11:30:54 PM

The greatest haven of value has always been gold, history has shown it, in every crisis gold is always used, today there is Bitcoin, which is not considered a haven of value, for some scenarios of countries with inflation crises If it can turn out to be a great relief, but given the current circumstances due to the virus, all markets have fallen, including gold at 7%, so seeing Bitcoin as a haven of value is not recognized worldwide, perhaps due to its volatility, today day is a great investment to have gold and Bitcoin, it is what is always recommended.

Yes, bitcoin volatility is the biggest risk that makes some people reconsider investing. Prices can indeed go up many times, but the opposite can also happen at any time. In addition to funds, investing in bitcoin also requires mental readiness, as if we are marketed. But this decade is enough to prove that bitcoin can be a very good alternative.

alizarosa3123

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People just panic and go insane. In the event it shows an alarming panic effect on bitcoin spending on anything. Also, it was not directly linked to the corona virus but intimidated people into expecting a similar dump to Bitcoin so that they could not get a kick out of the possibility of everything trying to work fast and cause an accident!

In the case of store-related events in which you are simply implying that Bitcoin can be a money and other cash, for example, Fiat, it is also a store of great value. This time I agree.

mikeauerbach

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"A store of value is an asset that maintains its value without depreciating". - the definition from Investopedia.
Saying that Bitcoin is good as a store of value in a long term based on the fact that during 2008-2015 Bitcoin was much cheaper in dollar equivalent than it is nowadays. But how will Bitcoin perform in some years? We can't guess, so calling Bitcoin a long-term store of value isn't correct.

verita1

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Store of Value. It is literally my way of receiving income since it is my means of payment. Only my bank account is used for my grocery purchases and bill payments. All my money is distributed in my digital assets.
Thanks for this post because it is useful for the community from my point of view.

TheGreatPython

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@OP: You shouldn’t really be blaming such people. Most of them that are saying that are not even long term investors, they are just some people who are expecting the price of bitcoin to keep going up all the time and they want to be making profit within a short time and since it’s not working that they are worried about it. This is what is causing these people to be saying that Bitcoin is trash and that it’s not a store of a value.

Bitcoin can only be a store of value if you have the intention to hold it from now to a long time. I guess most people might have already started to realize the how strong bitcoin markets is doing even in this pandemic times. It may fluctuate but it will serve its original purpose of being a medium for storing value.

Artemis3

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Quote from: Yatsan on March 22, 2020, 05:22:17 PM

Quote from: Fundamentals Of on March 22, 2020, 07:44:54 AM

The fundamentals of Bitcoin is and will always remain strong regardless of the situation we are facing, most especially if the kind of monetary system that we have right now will prevail for a longer time. So regardless of the short term rise and fall of Bitcoin's price, the long term is always positive. So if you want your money's worth to not only remain valuable over a long period of time but also to even increase, Bitcoin is one very nice choice. The temporary rise and fall could make you quicker money if you are good in speculating, though.

But I still don't see it becoming a "store of value" just yet, though bitcoin technically is a store of value. The high volatility rate of bitcoin in itself just wouldn't let bitcoin be a good saving method. That being said, there are other used that bitcoin can be utilized for during these times of great need. As of now digital transactions are more sought for because they are much safer as banknotes and coins contract viruses, and it's also important right now that everyone can online shop. Bitcoin is seeing a larger user base now compared to when everyone wasn't on lockdown, but digital fiat is still dominating the game. If we can promote its usage even more, there might be a shift in the industry.

Even with fluctuation, bitcoin has already proven to be very useful. This is what gives it its value. If it wasn't useful, i wouldn't be holding at the value it has.

The infamous "backed on thin air" scenario never happened, it never went all the way down to zero (useless).

But can you say the same about fiat? My country's fiat is the closest you can get to going nearly zero (lost 99.99999% value). Do you think the other fiats are immune to this? Due to the economic crisis, the Americans are already printing while moving interest rate into zero.

IF one of the major fiat collapses, it will pull the rest of the economy with it, but not bitcoin. This is because bitcoin is independent to the situation of particular countries or even the world economy. It is in fact a place to seek refuge in case such thing occurs. Bitcoin remains useful and secure, which gives it value.

TheUltraElite

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So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

Quote from: Botnake on March 20, 2020, 06:55:26 AM

Not gonna panic for short term as a dump and a pump is quite normal for an asset that most of the volume are own by the whales.

It remains a store of value as long as we have its price on the rise or at a stable price, of which increasing price is always possible in the long term. So it becomes a good store of value provided you know the risks.

What I do not like is that some people are lazy and are just here to make money. So they are looking for complete full-proof methods to store their money in for future. Bitcoin is not something that can be keeping a high value all the time. It will drop in price move sideways, vulnerable to market risks. These people dont have any basic idea of what investing is and keep on making threads like these.

hv_

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Quote from: TalkBitcoinsCom on March 26, 2020, 02:03:45 PM

Quote from: hv_ on March 18, 2020, 11:59:01 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Well, Satoshi meant for it to be used a currency just that it's finite supply also makes it suitable as a store of value. Until crypto enthusiasts learn how to hodl and really trust in bitcoin it's feature of being a store of value will never be felt because anytime there is any concern in the market people are going to dump it. Take a look at what's happening right now with the spread of Coronavirus

Hodl and ponzl was the cancer = segwit

This is a good reading

hxxps://coingeek.com/why-there-is-no-store-of-value-or-digital-gold-in-btc/

FYI, nothing from Coingeek is "good reading"
remember, Coingeek is Calvin Ayre, known fraud who's side by side with the CSW fraud.

hv, wtf are you a noob?

Lol

Don't trust, verify. U reading mostly fake news if u don't research own, down to the sources.

Coingeek does that quite ok.

TalkBitcoinsCom

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Quote from: hv_ on March 18, 2020, 11:59:01 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Well, Satoshi meant for it to be used a currency just that it's finite supply also makes it suitable as a store of value. Until crypto enthusiasts learn how to hodl and really trust in bitcoin it's feature of being a store of value will never be felt because anytime there is any concern in the market people are going to dump it. Take a look at what's happening right now with the spread of Coronavirus

Hodl and ponzl was the cancer = segwit

This is a good reading

hxxps://coingeek.com/why-there-is-no-store-of-value-or-digital-gold-in-btc/

FYI, nothing from Coingeek is "good reading"
remember, Coingeek is Calvin Ayre, known fraud who's side by side with the CSW fraud.

hv, wtf are you a noob?

dnprock

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Quote from: witcher_sense on March 20, 2020, 04:34:34 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on March 20, 2020, 03:45:22 AM

One of Bitcoin's main feature that gives it its utility is censorship-resistance, which requires it to be decentralized. Would Bitcoin have value if decentralization was removed, and be a "slow Paypal"?

Decentralization of Bitcoin is one of the main features for sure, but it isn't the only feature that gives value to bitcoin. Decentralized system itself is not very usefull for doing exchanges for goods. Desentalization helps to push monetary properties of Bitcoin through any obstacles such us borders, regulations, lack of banking services etc.

So, from my point of view, what makes bitcoin truly valuable is a combination of credibility of its monetary properties and bitcoin's ability to express these monetary properties through everything trying to stop that expression.

I agree. Decentralization is a feature of Bitcoin, not a utility. It's a feature that enables digital SoV function. Bitcoin has a utility, you can transfer it to others. But this utility is a feature of Bitcoin's SoV function. It's not a widespread utility. This is the reason against big blocks. Some people try to scale this utility up to payment. It won't work because it's not a use case. It's like you're trying to make a hammer out of gold. You can certainly do that. Your gold hammer won't be good at hammering nails. You want to use steel for making hammers.

Bitcoin is a long-term Store of Value. It's not a medium of exchange during a crisis.

Yatsan

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Quote from: Fundamentals Of on March 22, 2020, 07:44:54 AM

The fundamentals of Bitcoin is and will always remain strong regardless of the situation we are facing, most especially if the kind of monetary system that we have right now will prevail for a longer time. So regardless of the short term rise and fall of Bitcoin's price, the long term is always positive. So if you want your money's worth to not only remain valuable over a long period of time but also to even increase, Bitcoin is one very nice choice. The temporary rise and fall could make you quicker money if you are good in speculating, though.

But I still don't see it becoming a "store of value" just yet, though bitcoin technically is a store of value. The high volatility rate of bitcoin in itself just wouldn't let bitcoin be a good saving method. That being said, there are other used that bitcoin can be utilized for during these times of great need. As of now digital transactions are more sought for because they are much safer as banknotes and coins contract viruses, and it's also important right now that everyone can online shop. Bitcoin is seeing a larger user base now compared to when everyone wasn't on lockdown, but digital fiat is still dominating the game. If we can promote its usage even more, there might be a shift in the industry.

Fundamentals Of

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The fundamentals of Bitcoin is and will always remain strong regardless of the situation we are facing, most especially if the kind of monetary system that we have right now will prevail for a longer time. So regardless of the short term rise and fall of Bitcoin's price, the long term is always positive. So if you want your money's worth to not only remain valuable over a long period of time but also to even increase, Bitcoin is one very nice choice. The temporary rise and fall could make you quicker money if you are good in speculating, though.

AniviaBtc

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Quote from: isaac_clarke22 on March 21, 2020, 01:31:21 AM

Quote from: BrewMaster on March 18, 2020, 12:18:42 PM

people just panicked and went crazy. if anything it shows the effects of unreasonable fear on the bitcoin price. and it wasn't directly linked to coronavirus but it was liked to everything else being dumped that caused fear in people expecting the same dump in bitcoin so they tried to act faster and caused the crash becasue of that!

as for Store of Value, if you mean bitcoin is a currency and like any other currency such as fiat, it is a store of value too. then i agree.

I know right, although I am kinda thinking that coronavirus kinda affected some hodlers maybe not all of them. Maybe there were whales that panicked ot and caused them to sell a bunch causing this massive dumping that we're currently experiencing. Kinda sad that they brought their emotions to the table, but meh there's nothing we could do about it.
Bitcoin does both. Investment and utility but I believe that more people are into its own value.

Whales deserved that kind of panic because they are taking advantage and abusing the value of bitcoin, they think that bitcoin is juts made for one purpose, to become rich. As they knew that the bitcoin were down, they suddenly sell and it is surely out of there plan and they are probably shocked. It is true that we have nothing to do about this kind of event in crypto, we just need to continue promoting it and patiently wait for its growth again. It is more likely that bitcoin will be more useful during this Covid-19 pandemic because no one is safe to go outside that's why government are implementing community quarantine to slow the rate of infected people than the people recovering from the virus.

Twentyonepaylots

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Quote from: odolvlobo on March 19, 2020, 03:07:19 PM

Quote from: dnprock on March 18, 2020, 03:46:06 PM

Defining Store of Value is a trap to walk into. The most accurate definition of a Store of Value is a store of VALUE.

A close definition is a value that does not devalue with inflation. Some examples are gold, real estate. I think gold is the closest analogy. Real estate can be a Store of Value if the land is in high demand, like big metropolitans, agriculture lands. If you're in declining cities, like the US midwest areas, real estate is not a Store of Value. The US equity market can be considered a Store of Value. You've done well if you've invested after WW2. I'm not sure what the future holds for the equity market when we start having negative interest rates. My guess is it'll slowly lose its Store of Value status.

Anything that can generate income is a store of value by definition (i.e. discounted cash flow), including land. Gold and Bitcoin don't generate income so their value must be derived from their utility. Without that utility, they are no more than a pyramid scheme.

Quote from: dnprock on March 18, 2020, 03:46:06 PM

... Bitcoin is only a Store of Value. Bitcoin will not be a medium of exchange. Its supply cap of 21M is the reason. It's "good" money. It's desirable that people will dump other "bad" monies before they touch their bitcoins. I wrote an article on this topic:

There are three requirements for a good money:

store of value
medium of exchange
unit of account

If Bitcoin is only a store of value, and is not (and can never be) a medium of exchange or unit of account, then Bitcoin is not (and will never be) a good money. Sorry.

I personally believe that there is a good chance that Bitcoin will become all three and become a good money in time. Otherwise, it will just fade away.

Or it wouldn't fade away really. This has not been the first time bitcoin received a punch in the gut and even managed to reach an all time high. This is purely coincidental. Bitcoin is already on it's way to 12k until the news regarding COVID-19 pandemic kicked in and messed up not only bitcoin but the US STOCK MARKET as well. Provided that the US market is already recovering or at least that's what I can infer judging by the graphs and charts. There is a very high chance that bitcoin would bounce back as well. Although this further emphasizes that bitcoin while technically a store of value, isn't a really good one at that matter. A drop of more than 50% in just a couple of weeks already says a lot.

isaac_clarke22

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Quote from: BrewMaster on March 18, 2020, 12:18:42 PM

people just panicked and went crazy. if anything it shows the effects of unreasonable fear on the bitcoin price. and it wasn't directly linked to coronavirus but it was liked to everything else being dumped that caused fear in people expecting the same dump in bitcoin so they tried to act faster and caused the crash becasue of that!

as for Store of Value, if you mean bitcoin is a currency and like any other currency such as fiat, it is a store of value too. then i agree.

I know right, although I am kinda thinking that coronavirus kinda affected some hodlers maybe not all of them. Maybe there were whales that panicked ot and caused them to sell a bunch causing this massive dumping that we're currently experiencing. Kinda sad that they brought their emotions to the table, but meh there's nothing we could do about it.
Bitcoin does both. Investment and utility but I believe that more people are into its own value.

Botnake

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Quote from: dnprock on March 18, 2020, 01:15:37 AM

Long-term, Bitcoin is a Store of Value.

I would really agree with this and that is the reason why i am holding some of my bitcoins for long term.
The basic principle that I have put in mind until now is the law of supply and demand, and I always believe in the long run, the crypto adoption will increase and that would certainly make bitcoin less volatile and the value will increase, I have a big target on my holding, so I am still holding til now.

Not gonna panic for short term as a dump and a pump is quite normal for an asset that most of the volume are own by the whales.

witcher_sense

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on March 20, 2020, 03:45:22 AM

One of Bitcoin's main feature that gives it its utility is censorship-resistance, which requires it to be decentralized. Would Bitcoin have value if decentralization was removed, and be a "slow Paypal"?

Decentralization of Bitcoin is one of the main features for sure, but it isn't the only feature that gives value to bitcoin. Decentralized system itself is not very usefull for doing exchanges for goods. Desentalization helps to push monetary properties of Bitcoin through any obstacles such us borders, regulations, lack of banking services etc.

So, from my point of view, what makes bitcoin truly valuable is a combination of credibility of its monetary properties and bitcoin's ability to express these monetary properties through everything trying to stop that expression.

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