Topic: Bitcoin is already the most stable store of value. (Read 2369 times)

Jenga is already the most stable store of board games.

You are correct if we are speaking about present times.  I should have been more clear.   I more meant that bitcoin will be a good store of value over time..

It takes a special kinda retard to think bitcoin is a good store of value. The writing is on the wall, bitcoin isnt a good currency and it never will be. This is how to fix it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyWfUqEyIZc    Mostly it needs a definition 1 bitcoin = something and it needs an elastic supply. Bitcoin = Shitcoin.

It cant free markets, it cant free trade, it cant avoid taxation, it cant avoid capital gains, it is no longer capable of micro transactions, the institutions that have built up around it cant be trusted, the protocol cant be trusted, the miners cant be trusted, the valuation cant be trusted, you cant trade large amounts p2p, it cant replace government issued fiat, it cant cut sending cost (I can send for free with paypal), it isnt any good for cutting remittance cost.

It is real simple, the scarcity model sucks because it is controllable. Defining the unit of the measure of value in terms of a very finite item is like defining the unit of the measure of length in terms of an inch worm.     

Someone who would want $100,000 would either buy gold, or silver. Storing value is to make sure that the amount you stored is still that amount in the future, say I stored $1000 in BTC when prices were $1000 per BTC, I'd have just lost 40% in two months, bitcoins are not good for storing value; it is good for making transactions (for use as a currency)

The bad part of it was - those that laughed their a**es off actually got it right in the first place. They recognized the ponzi right at the start, because they knew the subtle but hughe difference between paper (a promise advertised as good as gold) and the real thing (which needs no stinkin' promises).

[ Bare in mind just who gave that promise and never forget that. If you trust politicians, central banks and bankers in general - you may want to reconsider. I consider these promises absolutely worthless, since they come from lying criminal snakes that I'd outright deny to even shake hands with. They're nothing but parasitic thieves that poison and exploit entire continents and generations if you let them - and they smile when they do it. These are nothing but sociopathic psychos with not a single atom of honour or honesty in their blood. Early US Presidents like Andrew Jackson fully knew that, but last century the banks won and assimilated even the United States, the rest was decades of propaganda and corruption to separate the free citizens from both real value and freedom. That's still work in progress but they already got so far, a free man of the land from the 1800's wouldn't even recognize today's "citizens" (property of the Federal corporation system) anymore for their sheer blind idiocy. He'd rather die standing upright & guns blazing than be enslaved in such a corrupt, criminal and tyrannical system. ]

Countless times in history, IOUs were broken and the bag holders had worthless paper claims in their hand. If one of your ancestors had passed on the gold he held on to (not trusting the empty promises), you'd hold a true store of value in your hands. In contrast, take a Silver certificate Dollar or earlier Dollar bills (redeemable in gold) to a bank, the FED or the State - they'll laugh right in your face.
Debasing = devaluing... De-Valuing. That's something bankers are good at when it comes to the money they want you to use. So hard, they enforced it with "legal tender for all debts" laws.

Alternatively, take a 20 British Pound bill and try to redeem that promise (after all, it's still printed on their bills).
I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of xxx pounds.
Try to get those 20 pounds of fine, british sterling silver for that bill. Just try that to see what that promise is worth today. And that promise was given by no other than the Queen, someone in old days usually known to rather keep a publicly issued royal promise (even inconvinient ones). Ah, the old days.

Anyway, that trust in paper IOUs was usually built in ever-complex and poisonous schemes - just to eventually collapse due to its inherent criminal design all over - fast. Very fast. And guess who got out every single time to hold actual value leaving the peasants with paper? - the banks and their owners/accomplices .

Lession learned : just because something becomes successful (widely adapted) by the masses doesn't mean it's good for you. Remember the masses are basically sheeple and their herds are too easily lured into places I'd rather not be.

Physical gold itself cannot be manipulated (finite physical resource), Bitcoin (technically) i.e. could be extended to 100 Million coins anytime needed or whatever. Almost anything can happen to a digital virtual good, no matter how secure it is deemed. Bits are easy to flip. The way it is today is no guarantee whatsoever for how it will be in a few years from now.
Bottom line : it's virtual and thus its value has been imaginary right from inception.
Physical vs. virtual in regard to value = easy choice for those that still know or re-learned what actual value is when it comes to store (rather preserve/protect) it over a long time.

To some (me included), virtual money is possibly the final, ultimate form of monetary debasement. A banker's wet dream (not really Bitcoin exclusive, digital bank accounts held on mainframes is already pretty close). Try to find average/good work that takes you without a bank account for the digital transfers today... Good luck, another banker plot went successful within a mere 50-70 years (depending on country). This used to be different, until mid last century workers were normally paid on payday in cash and didn't require a bank account.

Historical quotes :
“Give me control over a nations currency, and I care not who makes its laws.”
Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

United States Coinage act of 1965 :
Some have asked whether our silver coins will disappear. The answer is very definitely-no.

Our present silver coins won't disappear and they won't even become rarities. We estimate that there are now 12 billion--I repeat, more than 12 billion silver dimes and quarters and half dollars that are now outstanding. We will make another billion before we halt production. And they will be used side-by-side with our new coins.

Since the life of a silver coin is about 25 years, we expect our traditional silver coins to be with us in large numbers for a long, long time.

If anybody has any idea of hoarding our silver coins, let me say this. Treasury has a lot of silver on hand, and it can be, and it will be used to keep the price of silver in line with its value in our present silver coin. There will be no profit in holding them out of circulation for the value of their silver content.
Lyndon B Johnson, 23 July 1965
(today we all know what happened... those that trusted Johnson were soon left using nearly worthless base metal coins, those that did not trust him kept the silver coins and did exactly the right thing)

“There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
John Adams, 1826

“The Central Bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the principles and form of our constitution… if the American people allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
Thomas Jefferson

Umm, any new proposed currency likely to take time to develop, people were most probably laughing their a**** off when goldsmiths started handing
people dollar bills as a promise to pay the bearer the weight in gold, this is how banknotes came about -- I'd imagine it had huge trust issues, but over time, people trusted the system.

gold is a well established store of value, i.e. people 'perceive' it as looking pretty and being valuable, but key thing is it is a finite resource, Bitcoin has all the same qualities.  Granted its got a long way to go and pretty volatile at the moment, give it time ;-)

I must have misread then. No, I do not panic. My holdings are not at risk here, even if bitcoin goes to 0.
I'm waiting for the right time to acquire more than what I had. You should see some market changes then.

Its definitely a great store of value, but saying that it is stable is a bit of a reach right now. Maybe in a few years it may be stable

What I was trying to get at is the difference between the subjective value each individual market participant gives to bitcoin, and the objective market price that we can see on any exchange.

To me the bitcoin value is well above where it trades now, and it is pretty stable there. Today's events didn't budge my subjective value at all. And given the low turnover of bitcoins in the markets, that seems to be the case for most bitcoin holders.

So in that sense, whatever it does in price in these historically low regions is irrelevant to me. If I could buy more I would. The market price is where the amount of bitcoins sold matches the amount of bitcoins bought. It says little about the other 90% of bitcoins that don't leave their coffers.

The question is, how stable is Bitcoin when compared with the money being used in the United states in 1800. Bitcoin is about 5 years old. In 1800, following the new constitution of 1786, the United States already had 14 years to develop their currency and make it work.

I'm not into the history of the various U.S. currencies. The point is not the history. The point is the rapidity with which Bitcoin has become popular.

The world has never seen a currency that is being traded worldwide with the popularity of Bitcoin, go from zero to what it is today, all in just 5 years. Nobody knows how inherently secure and valuable Bitcoin really is. It is just too early to draw a real conclusion. However, one thing is sure, Bitcoin has risen, worldwide, way faster than the German Mark did in Germany, after Hitler rebuilt Germany prior to WWII. And that is fast.

It crashed for a moment. What would have happen to litecoin if somebody would have dropped 20 000 LTC on the market?
It would have been the same for any altcoin.

Except the fact that bitcoin is already recovering , many of the alt coins would have been frozen at the moment of the drop for ages.

If the present state of BitCoin was to represent the most stable store of value.... oh boy, we'd be fu*&ed. Big time.

It's a permanently endangered, unstable, volatile construction in progress and experimental way to conduct monetary transactions via internet with a still unknown background and uncertain future - nothing more.
It lacks about every single base requirement to be a store of value and in some regards even its value is highly debatable itself.

Complementary FIAT-type virtual commodity at best IMHO, which derives most of its value from the ability to conduct worldwide transactions at relatively small fee and reasonable transaction time - where accepted - and to date mostly outside of government control. Lots of variables that are subject to change without notice, hardly the "qualities" you'd need to have a store of value.

It's a new, virtual "use at your own risk" development restricted to internet use only, so never confuse it with a store of value.

One day? Will that day be in our lifetime? lol.

It is not stable, and it won't become any time soon. I do think it will become stable one day, at least stable enough that variations within a day won't be larger then those of regular currencies.

That's why I said "as a " :

People love to have some other people panicking as an excuse to panic.

10% drop seems a splash compared to today.

Not exactly a crash, just a dip, imagine someone making an instant buy order for 10 000+ BTC, it would jump quickly before going back.

I really doubt people in countries where there is hyperinflation have more than a few satoshi fer thousands citizen.
Just like the whole whole kenya bitcoin rush was one major myth.

Yes , it's that dip at btc-e that everybody is talking about as a crash to 100.

Where did this happen? Btc-e?