Bitcoin is legal in Thailand | Bitcointalksearch.org

NewLiberty

legendary

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Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: mrb on August 04, 2013, 03:52:23 PM

Guidance is not law.

Besides, FinCEN is part of the US government, whereas the Bank of Thailand is not part of the government.

this.

And FinCEN is a part of the Dept of the Treasury, executive branch. Yes they do not make law, they do enforce it however, and so their guidance on how then intend to enforce it is instructive but not dispositive absent any definitive litigation and legislation.

In plain English, that means they are announcing (the guidance) what (they think) the current law means and they are likely to attempt to enforce it as such.
Judges may disagree. If it is Judge vs FinCEN, Judge wins. Congresscritters may disagree. If they pass some law that changes or refines the FinCEN guidance, that wins too (subject to it being ruled in court). In the final analysis, what happens in court matters most for criminal matters.

Viceroy

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Quote

The Foreign Exchange Administration and Policy Department advised that due to lack of existing applicable laws, capital controls and the fact that Bitcoin straddles multiple financial facets the following Bitcoin activities are illegal in Thailand

Yes, I'm sure a bitcoin exchange is anti-bitcoin Roll Eyes

Stn

full member

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I was shocked has fast the media picked this up with only one guy having this info on his blog.
Crazy.

It is indirect proof that it was part of anti-Bitcoin campaign.

Stn

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Guys who cares is FinCEN, Fed, BoT is the part of government or not. In this case it is absolutely doesn't matter. The fact that alleged blurb in the bitcoin.co.th blog was not uttered by the Bank of Thailand at all. It was just result of confusion or pure lie. No official paper exists and even simple press release was not issued on the alleged illegality of Bitcoin in Thailand.

Viceroy

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Quote from: dree12 on August 25, 2013, 08:20:04 PM

Big misconceptions about the Thai central bank. It is part of the government. In fact, the bank's director is also the minister of finance! The bank is in charge of financial regulation and can indeed pass laws.

that's what I said!

dree12

legendary

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Big misconceptions about the Thai central bank. It is part of the government. In fact, the bank's director is also the minister of finance! The bank is in charge of financial regulation and can indeed pass laws.

That said, the bank's authority seems to only allow decreeing laws regulating foreign currency, that is, currency that is legal tender in another sovereign state. Bitcoin does not as of yet fall under this definition, so any statements about it are not law but rather guidance. The guidance is likely unenforceable until Bitcoin becomes a recognized legal tender in another state.

BitcoinChick25

newbie

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thanks for posting after reading some other threads I was convinced it was illegal.

Viceroy

hero member

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I'll just put this here.

Thai police summon Facebook users over coup-rumor posts, threaten to jail people for ‘liking’

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/thai-police-summon-facebook-users-over-coup-feared-posts/2013/08/05/932e71d8-fdad-11e2-8294-0ee5075b840d_story.html

no surprise they are afraid of bitcoin, they can't even handle free speech!

Viceroy

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Quote from: mrb on August 06, 2013, 04:39:25 PM

Quote from: Viceroy on August 06, 2013, 02:23:21 PM

So we need to follow the advice of the BOT the same as we follow the advice of FinCEN, right?

No. For the last time: FinCEN is part of the govt. BoT is not. How hard is it to understand the difference?

What do you mean "part of the government". BoT was created by the Thai government to be the oversee-er of all Thai banks. Surely they are not just some meaningless organization.

The number one role of BoT is:

It defines its roles as:[1]
Print and issue banknotes

Are they are are they not Thailand's equivalent of "the Fed" in the US? I think they are the same thing.

"The Federal Reserve System (also known as the Federal Reserve, and informally as the Fed) is the central banking system of the United States."

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Quote from: mrb on August 06, 2013, 04:39:25 PM

Quote from: Viceroy on August 06, 2013, 02:23:21 PM

So we need to follow the advice of the BOT the same as we follow the advice of FinCEN, right?

No. For the last time: FinCEN is part of the govt. BoT is not. How hard is it to understand the difference?

He's a concern troll/pathological liar. Just ignore him.

mrb

legendary

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Quote from: Viceroy on August 06, 2013, 02:23:21 PM

So we need to follow the advice of the BOT the same as we follow the advice of FinCEN, right?

No. For the last time: FinCEN is part of the govt. BoT is not. How hard is it to understand the difference?

Viceroy

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So we need to follow the advice of the BOT the same as we follow the advice of FinCEN, right? So your problem is with the word 'legal' not the idea that Bitcoin is not allowed to be used in Thailand.

mrb

legendary

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Quote from: Viceroy on August 04, 2013, 04:40:52 PM

Quote from: mrb on August 04, 2013, 03:52:23 PM

Guidance is not law.

Besides, FinCEN is part of the US government, whereas the Bank of Thailand is not part of the government.

Per Wikipedia:

The Bank of Thailand (BOT) was first set up as the Thai National Banking Bureau. The Bank of Thailand Act was promulgated on 28 April 1942 vesting upon the Bank of Thailand the responsibility for all central banking functions. The Bank of Thailand started operations on 10 December 1942.

Sounds just like the Federal Reserve to me.

Now FinCEN is not part of the Federal Reserve and none of these bodies can make law but they sure can interpret the law and they have. The Bank of Thailand's opinion is that bitcoin is illegal. FinCEN's opinion is that bitcoin is money.

As a matter of fact the Bank of Thailand works hand in hand with FinCEN as they are both members of FATF
http://www.fatf-gafi.org/pages/asiapacificgrouponmoneylaunderingapg.html
http://www.fincen.gov/international/fatf/

Now tell me again how FinCEN's opinion is any different than BOT's opinion in terms of how it affects users of bitcoin.

Err... you answered yourself a few lines above(!): because "FinCEN is not part of the Federal Reserve" (emphasis mine); FinCEN is actually part of the US government (Department of the Treasury). Understand that the Federal Reserve, like BoT, are weaker entities set up by the government, but not part of it, and strictly regulated by its laws.

turtle83

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Supersonic

BoT saying saying something is not legal (assuming they have the right to decide on such matters) only has implications for businesses who want to mention BTC transactions in their books. For it to be "really" illegal for the common man, they need to publish a ruling saying so, send notifications to relevant authorities to enforce such ruling. Thats just the way it is in Thailand. IMHO prostitution is more illegal than BTC in Thailand.

We dont know if BoT did indeed say its illegal or not. The blogpost by the defunct exchange wrote something on their blog (all media articles based off that) doesnt make it law. After days of searching, the only quote I found from BoT did not say anything firm. All they said was they rejected the request for exchange. They probably also told the reporter that they did not rule it illegal, but such headline wont sell newspapers. Has it occurred to you that the exchange's blogpost could have been something lost in translation, or they are just venting out in frustration?

Lohoris

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Bitgoblin

Quote from: joesmoe2012 on July 29, 2013, 02:54:22 PM

Wow thanks for the heads up, I'm suprised more people from thailand haven't spoken up yet to correct the misconception.

They did, but media wouldn't listen, and people wouldn't listen.
Once a FUD is spread, people are too stupid to stop it and spread it on.

Viceroy

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Quote from: mrb on August 04, 2013, 03:52:23 PM

Guidance is not law.

Besides, FinCEN is part of the US government, whereas the Bank of Thailand is not part of the government.

Per Wikipedia:

The Bank of Thailand (BOT) was first set up as the Thai National Banking Bureau. The Bank of Thailand Act was promulgated on 28 April 1942 vesting upon the Bank of Thailand the responsibility for all central banking functions. The Bank of Thailand started operations on 10 December 1942.

Sounds just like the Federal Reserve to me.

Now FinCEN is not part of the Federal Reserve and none of these bodies can make law but they sure can interpret the law and they have. The Bank of Thailand's opinion is that bitcoin is illegal. FinCEN's opinion is that bitcoin is money.

As a matter of fact the Bank of Thailand works hand in hand with FinCEN as they are both members of FATF
http://www.fatf-gafi.org/pages/asiapacificgrouponmoneylaunderingapg.html
http://www.fincen.gov/international/fatf/

Now tell me again how FinCEN's opinion is any different than BOT's opinion in terms of how it affects users of bitcoin. Are you really trying to say that BOT has no authority regarding money and Thailand?

Or are you just jazzed about the misuse of the English word "law" or "legal" in this context?

mrb

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Guidance is not law.

Besides, FinCEN is part of the US government, whereas the Bank of Thailand is not part of the government.

Viceroy

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Merit: 501

Quote from: mrb on August 02, 2013, 05:42:07 PM

Viceroy, every single one of these articles you quoted has the "Bank of Thailand" as its source. And you completely missed the main point of this thread that the "Bank of Thailand" has no legal power to declare Bitcoin illegal.

Yes the media is wrong. They are wrong more often than you think...

Nor does FinCEN have ANY ability to make law... but they have every right to offer guidance. Tell me how that is in any way different. Thailand's regulating body (the body that regulates all banks) has decided that bitcoin is an illegal currency and will not authorize any of it's banks to trade in it.

In America we have the Department of Treasury overseeing all banks through its FinCEN unit. I do not see any difference in why we should give FinCEN's guidance any more credence or why we should ignore the guidance of the Bank of Thailand which is the regulating authority on the matter.

mrb

legendary

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Viceroy, every single one of these articles you quoted has the "Bank of Thailand" as its source. And you completely missed the main point of this thread that the "Bank of Thailand" has no legal power to declare Bitcoin illegal.

Yes the media is wrong. They are wrong more often than you think...

Viceroy

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Quote from: ?? on ??

They all have the same "source".
Crappy journalism at its finest.

No doubt, but journalism has been declining for decades the lack of original reporting is nothing new. The core statement remains:

"The ruling means it is illegal to buy and sell bitcoins, buy or sell any goods or services in exchange for bitcoins, send any bitcoins to anyone outside of Thailand, or receive bitcoins from anyone outside the country".

https://bitcoin.co.th/news/

At the conclusion of the meeting senior members of the Foreign Exchange Administration and Policy Department advised that due to lack of existing applicable laws, capital controls and the fact that Bitcoin straddles multiple financial facets the following Bitcoin activities are illegal in Thailand:

Buying Bitcoins
Selling Bitcoins
Buying any goods or services in exchange for Bitcoins
Selling any goods or services for Bitcoins
Sending Bitcoins to anyone located outside of Thailand
Receiving Bitcoins from anyone located outside of Thailand

Topic: Bitcoin is legal in Thailand (Read 8321 times)