Pages:
Author

Topic: Bitcoin is like cash under the mattress (Read 5251 times)

legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1062
One coin to rule them all
August 03, 2014, 04:23:09 AM
#99
It's sad to think about all the Bitcoin that is essentially mined and now lost. I wonder how will this affect the bitcoin economy with not having the original number of coins in circulation?

It is not sad for you and me... each time a bitcoin is lost, then will our bitcoins be worth a tiny fraction more.
member
Activity: 76
Merit: 10
August 03, 2014, 03:41:07 AM
#98
It's sad to think about all the Bitcoin that is essentially mined and now lost. I wonder how will this affect the bitcoin economy with not having the original number of coins in circulation?
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
'Slow and steady wins the race'
August 03, 2014, 02:28:26 AM
#97
All those hard drives formatted and thrown away with wallets on them... not too many people throw out cash when they dump an old mattress.

Bitcoin would be more like a $20 you left in a pair of jeans and ran through the wash and don't even notice it's not a bill after it comes out. Oh the horror!
The reason people threw away hard drives with private keys on them was because when the bitcoin was received it was worth very little, but is worth a lot more now. Today most people have multiple backups of their private keys with even small amounts on them.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
August 03, 2014, 01:51:20 AM
#96
Someone mentioned Orwellian.....how about an implanted chip or a rearranged DNA-cell-complex-identifier like a healed scar or "brand"....oh that sounds a little like "the mark of the beast".

Yes Bitcoin is here to stay and exists as the perfect system for One World Government Control. The accounts can all be seized and then doled out in exchange for some sort of compliance.
As the old timers say "be careful what you wish for"........  Wink

All we can do is watch the progression closely and insist on the freedom of its use by devising a completely unique electronic or naturally magnetic pipeline (not the internet)  or refuse compliance altogether.

I foresee some sort of "magic wand" (for lack of a better term) where the user is identified by their own unique genetic magnetic field variance.
You could "LOSE" your wand and it would be rendered useless in the possession of anyone else (therefore replaceable). Transmission of payment data is through a frequency within the Earth's magnetic field spectrum triggered and identified by both party's mutual code generation (the unique combination of the two "magic wands".)

In conclusion: BTW I just thought of this while I was writing this so don't forget you heard it here first.  Grin

 

Yes, the body perhaps has a lasting electromagnetic signature. I know that the heart pattern has been suggested for biometric personal identification.

The mark of the beast?

"It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666." -- Revelation 13:16-18 (NIV)

Mark on the right hand, that sounds like an implantable microchip, and on the forehead sounds like Google Glass. Grin

A mandatory implantable microchip would indeed be Orwellian. Horrible. I would refuse it.

The magic wand you describe sounds less intrusive, like an ID card that detects the body's unique electromagnetic pattern. And from that ID the user can generate temporary IDs, so that anonymity is preserved when doing transactions over the Internet.
sr. member
Activity: 422
Merit: 250
August 02, 2014, 11:52:41 PM
#95
I don't like the idea of a unique user id ,while I cannot change it or if I can have only one.

newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 0
August 02, 2014, 10:17:48 PM
#94
Someone mentioned Orwellian.....how about an implanted chip or a rearranged DNA-cell-complex-identifier like a healed scar or "brand"....oh that sounds a little like "the mark of the beast".

Yes Bitcoin is here to stay and exists as the perfect system for One World Government Control. The accounts can all be seized and then doled out in exchange for some sort of compliance.
As the old timers say "be careful what you wish for"........  Wink

All we can do is watch the progression closely and insist on the freedom of its use by devising a completely unique electronic or naturally magnetic pipeline (not the internet)  or refuse compliance altogether.

I foresee some sort of "magic wand" (for lack of a better term) where the user is identified by their own unique genetic magnetic field variance.
You could "LOSE" your wand and it would be rendered useless in the possession of anyone else (therefore replaceable). Transmission of payment data is through a frequency within the Earth's magnetic field spectrum triggered and identified by both party's mutual code generation (the unique combination of the two "magic wands".)

In conclusion: BTW I just thought of this while I was writing this so don't forget you heard it here first.  Grin

 
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
August 02, 2014, 06:50:52 AM
#93
I don't like the idea of a unique user id if I cannot change it or if I can have only one.

However I agree that the need for cold storage in order to store your coins safely is pretty retarded.

It would then be better to have ordinary Bitcoin wallets instead of user IDs. In practice for example Google Wallet accepting Bitcoin would be good enough. And for people who deal with very large sums of bitcoins then banks may start to offer cold storage.

So in practice the problem is maybe not so big as I first thought.
DrG
legendary
Activity: 2086
Merit: 1035
August 02, 2014, 05:24:07 AM
#92
All those hard drives formatted and thrown away with wallets on them... not too many people throw out cash when they dump an old mattress.

Bitcoin would be more like a $20 you left in a pair of jeans and ran through the wash and don't even notice it's not a bill after it comes out. Oh the horror!
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1001
Let the chips fall where they may.
August 02, 2014, 04:25:00 AM
#91
I don't like the idea of a unique user id if I cannot change it or if I can have only one.

However I agree that the need for cold storage in order to store your coins safely is pretty retarded.

If your computer was proven to operate correctly, you would not need cold storage.

Most computer technology is developed with "ad-hoc" debugging. This can lead to rapid innovation: but also leads to persistent bugs to the point that my technically knowledgeable room-mate thinks bug-free code is impossible.

There is hope.
It is possible to characterize what software should should do; then systematically prove that it does it. Examples that I am aware of include:
BTW, a voting machine hack using return-oriented programming on Read-only memory convinced me that you can not have security without formal verification.
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 0
August 02, 2014, 03:27:02 AM
#90
hmm, never gave that much thought, guess it goes with the (territory) script  Undecided
donator
Activity: 1616
Merit: 1003
August 02, 2014, 03:20:48 AM
#89
I don't like the idea of a unique user id if I cannot change it or if I can have only one.

However I agree that the need for cold storage in order to store your coins safely is pretty retarded.
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 0
August 02, 2014, 03:14:32 AM
#88
An interesting way to put it, but who knows? Visit http://ufobux.com and advertise yours free  Grin
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
August 02, 2014, 03:10:57 AM
#87
Today Bitcoin is still in the innovation phase in the diffusion of innovation curve, or at most in the early adopters phase.



For users like that, who build their own Linux servers and install all kinds of complicated software, the idea of cold storage is no big deal. For the average Joe and your ordinary soccer mom on the other hand, managing a Bitcoin cold storage safely is a big deal.

Bitcoin cold storage is like cash under the mattress, only that the cold storage is much more difficult to manage than moving cash to and from a mattress.

full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
August 02, 2014, 02:55:49 AM
#86
Cold storage means I learned that you store the private keys in ways that are unconnected from the Internet.

The term "cold storage" may seem new and modern, but it actually means going back to stone age technology basically. And how many people would want to bother with doing their own cold storage? And how trustworthy would the cold storage be if ordinary people did it themselves? And trusting a third party to do the cold storage for you, do you really want to do that?

legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
August 02, 2014, 12:48:03 AM
#85
you may be interested in looking into Shamir's Secret Sharing.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
August 02, 2014, 12:30:51 AM
#84
Deterministic wallets have been mentioned. If I have understood it correctly a single key can generate as many private keys as needed. That's actually a clever idea. And it could be used together with a user ID!

Instead of as in the Electrum wallet where you need to remember or safely store a secret phrase of words, a user ID system could be used that holds a private key that is used instead of the manual secret phrase of words to generate new private keys.

With such solution the existing Bitcoin specification can be used as it is! It would still be ordinary Bitcoin addresses.

There are many solutions being developed today that are along the lines
you are thinking.  Many people will use 3rd party services.  Coinbase
just introduced their vault product.

Also, several providers offer multi-sig solutions.
Green Address already has a multisignature deterministic system.

As far as the ID, you could certainly build an ID system instead
of a "12 word seed".  The advantage of the seed is that its easier
to remember.

If you want to trust the ID to a third party, then you
are back to all the problems associated with third parties,
although services use 2FA to try to make IDs more secure.


Ok, the user ID as a master private key would be very sensitive. Not something that should be stored in plain text on any device connected to the Internet. Tricky. Maybe a clever authentication scheme could be used where the master private key is only generated on the fly through a connection with authentication servers, and an online bank style login for the user. Then the master private key for the user ID would never be stored anywhere.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
August 02, 2014, 12:16:50 AM
#83
Deterministic wallets have been mentioned. If I have understood it correctly a single key can generate as many private keys as needed. That's actually a clever idea. And it could be used together with a user ID!

Instead of as in the Electrum wallet where you need to remember or safely store a secret phrase of words, a user ID system could be used that holds a private key that is used instead of the manual secret phrase of words to generate new private keys.

With such solution the existing Bitcoin specification can be used as it is! It would still be ordinary Bitcoin addresses.

There are many solutions being developed today that are along the lines
you are thinking.  Many people will use 3rd party services.  Coinbase
just introduced their vault product.

Also, several providers offer multi-sig solutions.
Green Address already has a multisignature deterministic system.

As far as the ID, you could certainly build an ID system instead
of a "12 word seed".  The advantage of the seed is that its easier
to remember.

If you want to trust the ID to a third party, then you
are back to all the problems associated with third parties,
although services use 2FA to try to make IDs more secure.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
August 02, 2014, 12:10:01 AM
#82
Deterministic wallets have been mentioned. If I have understood it correctly a single key can generate as many private keys as needed. That's actually a clever idea. And it could be used together with a user ID!

Instead of as in the Electrum wallet where you need to remember or safely store a secret phrase of words, a user ID system could be used that holds a private key that is used instead of the manual secret phrase of words to generate new private keys.

With such solution the existing Bitcoin specification can be used as it is! It would still be ordinary Bitcoin addresses.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
August 01, 2014, 11:36:11 PM
#81
What is needed is for the bitcoins to be automatically secure.

Thats impossible, because it would require transactions to be reversible in the case of fraud, which would destroy fungibility and the entire point of Bitcoin.

You wouldnt leave your wallet with physical currency lying out on the street. If you use a secure password for your Bitcoin, and dont forget it, the likelyhood of theft is extremely low.

Dont worry about losing your Bitcoin wallet. Worry about losing your password, because your wallet.dat file is worthless without it.

And check this site out: https://howsecureismypassword.net/

The Bitcoin transactions would still be irreversible. My idea is to have encrypted user keys stored on the block chain, since each transaction can be given a separate key to prevent user IDs from being tracked. So it would not be the actual user IDs that would be stored on the block chain, only encrypted user keys.

That would require a secure personal ID system which doesn't exist today but may exist in the near future. Banks today for example have secure user accounts. Something similar could be used for a more general user ID system.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
August 01, 2014, 11:26:48 PM
#80

Not sure why you want to complicate Bitcoin security.  You've been
given the proven methods to do it correctly but you don't seem
to want to listen.


Because information technology can be used as a tool that removes the burden of manual labor. It's a LOT of tedious work today to have to manage the safety of personally owned bitcoins. I would want to have all that personal safety handled by an automatic and trustless system.

What may happen is perhaps that services like Coinbase will be how most people will deal with their bitcoins.

Here is an interview with the founder of Coinbase: Is Bitcoin the Future of Money? - SXSW Interactive 2014 (Full Session) -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD-ahgTkGvs

And PayPal may in the future have online Bitcoin wallets, I don't know. Although that may work in practice it's still the old trust paradigm. It's like printing emails on paper and sending them via postal delivery.
Pages:
Jump to: