Topic: Bitcoin is money, everything else is credit. - page 4. (Read 2245 times)

Why are you so surprised? If bitcoin is used simply to invest the money I would have to maintain your sarcasm, but there are many people who perform some work and receive payment in bitcoins. This is already the emergence of the bitcoin economy, and this is serious.

If you really think about it, BTC is nothing but a ledger with the record of all the inputs and outputs. If you think about it that way you wouldnt think of it as money. We dont even have the coins in our wallets. Its all right there in the ledger stored as UTXOs. If the world finds some value in that and they are willing to pay for over $2000 per 1 BTC, then ok.

So true but unfortunately when the majority of the population will open their eyes and see it, it will be already too late for tem. The 2008 crisis is nothing compared to what will happen, and it will. Maybe in 5 years, maybe in 20 years but don't worry, the finacial collapse will happen.
By the way, have you ever watched the documentary "Money as debt"? It's an animated video explaining how the monetary systems work with banking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_as_Debt You can find with no problem on Youtube

Traditional money has a face value. It applies to fiat money as well as fiduciary money. Bitcoin does not have a face value. Its value depends on demand and supply (like shares or other investments). At the same time bitcoin can be used as a payment instrument.

I think that is the main advantage of bitcoin: it comprises features of both investments and money. Thanks to that, the bitcoin eliminates the division between money and investments and makes investing available for everyone for every level of society.

Fiat is credit. Only commodities like gold and Bitcoin can be considered monies.

To understand why that is the case, you have to understand the origins of money and banking.

Historically, “banking” was rooted in bailment – the practice of storing someone else’s goods. The depositor would leave his items for safe keeping with the warehouse and have a ticket issued. This ticket pledged that his article would be redeemable on demand. After the receipt-holder presented his ticket and paid a storage fee, the warehouse would return his item.

Some goods, however, are relatively homogenous and indistinguishable. Gold is homogenous. An individual storing 100 ounces of gold at a warehouse for safe keeping does not care whether the exact same ounces of gold he particularly left with the warehouseman are redeemed; he just needs 100 ounces of gold back.

Unfortunately, this lack of caring enables the warehouseman embezzle the items/funds entrusted with him. The warehouseman is a cunning and calculating figure. Since he knows not all his customers will demand their gold at the same time, he may maneuver within a margin, profiting off his customer’s property. At any given time, he may only have 90% of the claims he issued available for redemption; at other times, he may have 50%, 40%, 30%, 10%, or even 0%.

The warehouseman may choose to live it up – selling his customer’s gold and spending the money on yachts, women, or booze. However, if he is caught violating their trust, his customers will immediately demand their grain back; thus, running him out of business. The warehouseman can engage in another, less obvious, form of fraud and deception. Rather than cashing-in his customer’s gold, he can instead issue fake warehouse receipts. Warehouse receipts backed by nothing but identical to the genuine receipts in all aspects. He can then lend these receipts out to borrowers, collecting interest on claims to property he never had.

Since all fiat is a claim on something that doesn't exist, it is credit.

It was J.P. Morgan that said "Gold is money, everything else is credit".

Unlike gold, which is material, exists in society and carries great value through its beauty. Bitcoin is a product of technology, it is a digital product, its power and value are completely dependent on human beliefs for it.

The only thing I'd see attractive in gold is that it has never gone out of style. People has always valued it. I see gold more as a store of value rather than a instrument for growth. Not as convenient as bitcoin but if you have enough money to invest in multiple stuff, it probably wouldn't hurt to have a bit of AU.


And the ever increasing value is not much of a problem for bitcoin because of the satoshi system. You don't see fiat with 8 trailing decimals units.

Bitcoin is certainly a very good tool for earning and currency, but gold is still better for the reason that it still exists in the real world. Bitcoin is not always convenient for use because of the high commission, so ordinary money must exist in parallel, this is complementary to each other.

Very great post, I bookmarked it for future purpose !

i don't agree with your defaltionary definition about bitcoin, it's not the price of the goods that falls, it's bitcoin that increase and have more power in purchase

for fiat can be seen in both case, inflationary because they lose value due to infinite printing, which make their coin have less and less value over time, or because the goods increase in price

I think you're correct in the point where bitcoin is money but I can't see the logic where everything else is credit. Yes the value of gold will always be there and bitcoin also but we can't infer the same of gold and bitcoin as the stocks of bitcoin sometimes drops. But I do agree in a way that bitcoin is koney now it is used more and kore as the days go by and in the future who knows.

i think even the creator never think that bitcoin will rise like these days, long way before popular it's only used for anonym/untraceble transaction with advantage for helping people with fast transaction, but that day just changed after it enters the market, now it become another "market games", unstable curency, and high fees.

This is just my opinion for now, maybe change in the future 

In 2014, Warren Buffett had said: "Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency can't become to a precious thing like gold, Bitcoin just a support tools for help make transaction between people in country to other country, useful, fast and safe"

=> We can know from him: Bitcoin just is a digital cash, can't replace FIAT or Gold

Bitcoin is not money because it can not really buy everything. As long as I know real world money can buy any dam thing. Don’t answer me that bitcoin is available everywhere and can many stuff around, No it can’t, and bitcoin is actually a commodity and it can traded for money. Thats what I think folks. I wish it will turn into money form soon. I would be more than happy sir!

100% correct. I hate to admit it, but something must be done about transaction fees to stop this out of control, outrageous fee situation.

There is absolutely no way Bitcoin will become fully mainstream before this problem is solved. I think it will be the next thing we talk about after August 1st and Segwit is done with.

You are looking Bitcoin from a perspective omitting the presence and influence of fiat at people's life.

No one can live without fiat these days, Bitcoin can't buy everything, so Bitcoin is still an investment and Bitcoin still rises its price. If we were in a Bitcoin's utopian society I would agree 100% with you, but we aren't.

For now Bitcoin is much more rentable than gold, but with so many possible changes in Bitcoin system, it's a unpredictable currency, gold is still more stable and guaranteed as it's a physical resource and not a virtual one.

This is something we should talk about!

What is it about gold that you still consider better than Bitcoin? What if the appreciation we've seen this year occurred every year? Or let's just say that Bitcoin gains 25% price growth each year, what would that do to change your mind?

We've seen a 125% gain thus far this year...so the price could stay this way for 5 years and we'd still be able to claim 25% growth year over year. That's more than we've seen with gold historically.

Bitcoin at its current state has several disadvantages that make it a very bad form of money - transaction fees make small transactions (below $200-$100) very expensive; volatility makes it risky to hold and receive as a payment; confirmation time can also be an issue, as sometimes instant transactions are required for business. All these factors currently outweigh potential benefits of Bitcoin for most users, so people still haven't started mass adoptions, despite Bitcoin being here for 8 years already.

Good vid, thanks for sharing, especially narrator is strong point in this doc.
They dont tell absolute truth about fee cost though so it is a little biased at least in this aspect.
Very good sound design, a little weird transition effects (to artsy), talking heads have no or close to none make-up (that's a plus, if you ask me).
Overall score for a documentary feature 6.3/10 ( IMO of course )
As to the title of this thread I would say Bitcoin is money everything else is debt :/

Maybe with the current situation, high tx fees and slow confirmation time doesn't look like that bitcoin will take over the monetary system. But for me, even if bitcoin becomes the giant it can be, it still can't totally eliminate fiat but will go hand and hand with it. Gold is better as store of value and hedge against a worldwide crisis.