Topic: Bitcoin is NOT a decentralize currency (Read 5889 times)

Quote from: Syke on June 29, 2012, 10:43:45 PM

I think that his concern was that Satoshi created ~~a trillion~~ 57,600 BTC for himself before he released the client.

ftfy

January 3, 2009: Genesis block established at 18:15:05 GMT
January 11, 2009: Bitcoin v0.1 released and announced on the cryptography mailing list

The early miner was pretty slow. It took much longer than 10 minutes per block. Only about 100 blocks (5000 btc) were solved by Jan 11.

Part of that was because Satoshi also coded a minimum difficulty into the algo, which was high enough that one cpu was never going to be able to reach that mark. Since there were no gpu miners yet, this required that a number of other players jump into the game before the 10 minute target interval could be obtained.

So Satoshi didn't give himself more advantage than he deserves as the inventor. He even gave himself much less than what could be argued as a "fair first mover advantage".

relevant old thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/satoshi-nakamoto-15-million-bitcoins-we-need-answers-37333 ("Satoshi Nakamoto - 1,5 million Bitcoins - We need answers")

MoonShadow

legendary

Activity: 1708

Merit: 1010

Quote from: molecular on June 29, 2012, 05:04:29 PM

Quote from: molecular on June 29, 2012, 05:04:29 PM

I think that his concern was that Satoshi created ~~a trillion~~ 57,600 BTC for himself before he released the client.

ftfy

January 3, 2009: Genesis block established at 18:15:05 GMT
January 11, 2009: Bitcoin v0.1 released and announced on the cryptography mailing list

The early miner was pretty slow. It took much longer than 10 minutes per block. Only about 100 blocks (5000 btc) were solved by Jan 11.

Part of that was because Satoshi also coded a minimum difficulty into the algo, which was high enough that one cpu was never going to be able to reach that mark. Since there were no gpu miners yet, this required that a number of other players jump into the game before the 10 minute target interval could be obtained.

Syke

legendary

Activity: 3878

Merit: 1193

I think that his concern was that Satoshi created ~~a trillion~~ 57,600 BTC for himself before he released the client.

ftfy

January 3, 2009: Genesis block established at 18:15:05 GMT
January 11, 2009: Bitcoin v0.1 released and announced on the cryptography mailing list

The early miner was pretty slow. It took much longer than 10 minutes per block. Only about 100 blocks (5000 btc) were solved by Jan 11.

molecular

donator

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1019

When a person or a group of person are in control of the value, IT IS CENTRALIZE. And no matter how you will call it, the problem still remain.

And, again, the protocol wasn't design to address that concern. The decentralization of bitcoin doesn't have to do with value. There is no way to address the concern your raising. Want to know why? Because it has to do with the economics of supply and demand and that some people simply have enough wealth to influence the value of any financial instrument. There is no solution to this "problem".

I think that his concern was that Satoshi created ~~a trillion~~ 57,600 BTC for himself before he released the client.

ftfy

January 3, 2009: Genesis block established at 18:15:05 GMT
January 11, 2009: Bitcoin v0.1 released and announced on the cryptography mailing list

MoonShadow

legendary

Activity: 1708

Merit: 1010

When a person or a group of person are in control of the value, IT IS CENTRALIZE. And no matter how you will call it, the problem still remain.

And, again, the protocol wasn't design to address that concern. The decentralization of bitcoin doesn't have to do with value. There is no way to address the concern your raising. Want to know why? Because it has to do with the economics of supply and demand and that some people simply have enough wealth to influence the value of any financial instrument. There is no solution to this "problem".

I think that his concern was that Satoshi created a trillion BTC for himself before he released the client.

He could have, but he didn't and couldn't do it now. The running codebase wouldn't recognize it as valid. There is no special powers that Satoshi (or anyone else) can grant themselves at this point.

Realpra

hero member

Activity: 815

Merit: 1000

When a person or a group of person are in control of the value, IT IS CENTRALIZE. And no matter how you will call it, the problem still remain.

And, again, the protocol wasn't design to address that concern. The decentralization of bitcoin doesn't have to do with value. There is no way to address the concern your raising. Want to know why? Because it has to do with the economics of supply and demand and that some people simply have enough wealth to influence the value of any financial instrument. There is no solution to this "problem".

I think that his concern was that Satoshi created a trillion BTC for himself before he released the client.

BTC would still be cool and all, but with that much wealth in the hands of the creator he might as well have put in a "print BTC"-button.

An alt chain with less initial cash would have been the easy solution to that.

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

When a person or a group of person are in control of the value, IT IS CENTRALIZE. And no matter how you will call it, the problem still remain.

And, again, the protocol wasn't design to address that concern. The decentralization of bitcoin doesn't have to do with value. There is no way to address the concern your raising. Want to know why? Because it has to do with the economics of supply and demand and that some people simply have enough wealth to influence the value of any financial instrument. There is no solution to this "problem".

Sure there is... Off with their heads!

Disclaimer: this is a joke, killing people is bad m'kay?

proudhon

legendary

Activity: 2198

Merit: 1311

Quote from: Syke on June 27, 2012, 04:55:17 AM

When a person or a group of person are in control of the value, IT IS CENTRALIZE. And no matter how you will call it, the problem still remain.

And, again, the protocol wasn't design to address that concern. The decentralization of bitcoin doesn't have to do with value. There is no way to address the concern your raising. Want to know why? Because it has to do with the economics of supply and demand and that some people simply have enough wealth to influence the value of any financial instrument. There is no solution to this "problem".

Realpra

hero member

Activity: 815

Merit: 1000

Quote from: knight22 on June 26, 2012, 01:46:14 PM

Quote from: BoardGameCoin on June 26, 2012, 01:32:34 PM

Look at the numbers in Jon Matonis' article here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/06/22/the-bitcoin-richest-accumulating-large-balances/

Well I guest 12.5% of total holding is not enough to control but only influence the value. That is reassuring me.

Thanks for sharing.

Read the article. There is one address that holds about 5%. The next largest address holds about 1%. Nobody has 12.5%.

He was referring to a theoretical maximum number that I calculated.

+ address balance means nothing. You could have more.

Syke

legendary

Activity: 3878

Merit: 1193

Quote from: knight22 on June 26, 2012, 01:46:14 PM

Quote from: BoardGameCoin on June 26, 2012, 01:32:34 PM

Look at the numbers in Jon Matonis' article here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/06/22/the-bitcoin-richest-accumulating-large-balances/

Well I guest 12.5% of total holding is not enough to control but only influence the value. That is reassuring me.

Thanks for sharing.

Read the article. There is one address that holds about 5%. The next largest address holds about 1%. Nobody has 12.5%.

mccorvic

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: knight22 on June 26, 2012, 12:12:48 PM

In that case we can only hope the big holders will spend their bitcoin with a responsible manner... and this is something we can never be sure about

Yes! Onward to bitOrwllianism comrade! We can only achieve decentralization by centralizing control to ensure that it is decentralized.

I like the cut of your jib.

MoonShadow

legendary

Activity: 1708

Merit: 1010

Quote from: knight22 on June 26, 2012, 01:24:59 PM

Quote from: Realpra on June 26, 2012, 12:57:55 PM

I told you the rich people are relatively KNOWN and it is KNOWN that they do NOT hold all that much money.

There is NO single person out there with 99,9% of all bitcoins who can use it as monopoly money.

If that WAS the case I might agree with you, but its not, so admit that fact or make it obvious you are trolling.

OK then but do you have any numbers to share?

Do you? I can personally know for certain that it's impossible that anyone else has 99.9% of bitcoins, because I have direct evidence that there are several people that have enough to total to over 0.1% of said coins.

knight22

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1000

--------------->¿?

Quote from: BoardGameCoin on June 26, 2012, 01:32:34 PM

Look at the numbers in Jon Matonis' article here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/06/22/the-bitcoin-richest-accumulating-large-balances/

Well I guest 12.5% of total holding is not enough to control but only influence the value. That is reassuring me.

Thanks for sharing.

kokjo

legendary

Activity: 1050

Merit: 1000

You are WRONG!

Quote from: knight22 on June 24, 2012, 11:45:44 AM

How a currency that approx 50% is held by a few people can be stated as a decentralize money? These people together can influence the value of bitcoin with their spending. In a way, they are in control of it's value and saying that it is fully decentralize is only a lie. The more the bitcoin will be valuable, the more they will be able to be in control. Unproportional holding of a currency is never good for the majority.

the 50% of the bitcoins have not yet been mined.

Realpra

hero member

Activity: 815

Merit: 1000

Quote from: knight22 on June 26, 2012, 01:24:59 PM

OK then but do you have any numbers to share?

BTC is pretty hard to track, however there is a known genesis block that is the first block.

That was created about 3-4 years ago and the BTC generation has been steady since by protocol design.

This means that even if satoshi was the ONLY miner the first YEAR he still "only" has 2.628.000 BTC or ~17 mil $ or what must be ~12.5% of all bitcoin there will ever be.

That is a long long way from 99.9% and likely far from what anyone has, as there have been multiple and different miners for most of bitcoins time and they likely used at least some of their coins before the value went way up.

BoardGameCoin

sr. member

Activity: 283

Merit: 250

Look at the numbers in Jon Matonis' article here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/06/22/the-bitcoin-richest-accumulating-large-balances/

knight22

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1000

--------------->¿?

Quote from: Realpra on June 26, 2012, 12:57:55 PM

I told you the rich people are relatively KNOWN and it is KNOWN that they do NOT hold all that much money.

There is NO single person out there with 99,9% of all bitcoins who can use it as monopoly money.

If that WAS the case I might agree with you, but its not, so admit that fact or make it obvious you are trolling.

OK then but do you have any numbers to share?

Realpra

hero member

Activity: 815

Merit: 1000