Bitcoin is not suitable as a currency, it's a store of value - page 3.

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Quote from: Ifemini on March 07, 2020, 03:16:42 AM

For me, i do not think bitcoin can replace fiat totally, because when their are larger transactions to be processed, it takes hours or even a day, except you have to pay Higher fees to process your transaction.

I will love several suggestions below, to further enlighten and brighten my knowledge.

We are of the same mind. I like bitcoin, but I'm not interested in using it as a payment tool, it's not effective because the volatility is very high. It could be that you buy a cup of coffee for 0.005Btc, and a few months later at the pump, with the same nominal you can get dozens of cups of coffee. With these facts, BTC is more effectively used as an investment tool. and other technical matters related to the duration of the transaction, fees, etc. as you mentioned also reduce its effectiveness. But it is undeniable that someday it can get better and this shortcoming can be eliminated, but for now fiat is more effective as an instant and small scale payment.

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Quote from: sheenshane on March 07, 2020, 09:03:10 AM

Quote from: LogitechMouse on March 07, 2020, 08:34:18 AM

Quote from: Ifemini on March 07, 2020, 03:16:42 AM

I want to ask a question, if there is a Bitcoin ATM card, and you want to use it to pay bills such as an hotel booking, will the payment reflect instantly while the atm machine or Miners still has to process the transaction?

Bitcoin ATM isn't necessary right now since we can create a transaction thru digital phones only or other digital things.

That's right it's not necessary because other establishments used QR codes when accepting Bitcoin as a payment. I dont think if there is a Bitcoin ATM card, all I know is a Bitcoin ATM machine where you can buy/sell your Bitcoin.

As mentioned above, the Lightning Network will solve the problem for micro payment and it is faster than the regular transaction of Bitcoin.
If you don't understand what is Lightning Network you can read it here for more info, A Beginner's guideline to Bitcoin Lightning Network.

I dont think Bitcoin can replace fiat, they had a different function and both of them are useful to us. Just accept the fact that Bitcoin is good for an alternative when it comes to payment transactions online. Yet, Bitcoin is the number of digital currency I had ever known.

As our technology is constantly developing, some features in the bank are also developing. But we don't need ATM for bitcoin as of now, we just need more people to understand how bitcoin works and how important it is. Mass adoption is all we need right now so that the government and world economy will make a bitcoin withdrawal through ATM machines. Most likely, this machine should be in a highly secured places and is guarded by a security. But in reality, bitcoin is known just for a store of value because its price is not constant compared to the fiat currency that is stable when we use it in our daily lives.

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Quote from: Ifemini on March 07, 2020, 08:10:52 AM

Quote from: pakhitheboss on March 07, 2020, 07:29:19 AM

Actually Bitcoin needs fiat currency to fuel its global value. Therefore it will never replace fiat in actual world. On the other hand Bitcoin is a digital currency and will replace fiat for digital transactions. The adoption is slow but gradually it is happening, considering Bitcoin is only a decade old.

With Lightening network you can send min 1 Satoshi and the payment is also instant.

Ok, i think i agree, but to my knowledge, lightening network is expensive as it consumes alot of power per transaction and it is not functional yet.

Litecoin and some projects only talked about it, but nothing yet.
Even recently, Matic has also made mention of it, any project yet finalized the lightening network ?

Actually, the Lightning Network is considered a solution that allows cheap small transactions, even though there are some 'buts' in that. And the LN is functional and there even start to appear some companies that accept the payment in Bitcoin LN. For instance, this famous Lightning Pizza website allows ordering a Domino's pizza and paying with Bitcoin LN.
As for the general question about currency vs a store of value, for me, Bitcoin is currently more about #2, but if it were easy to pay for stuff I currently buy with fiat with Bitcoin, I would be very interested in that. And it's not absolutely impossible, many problems can be solved.

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Personally, I don't think that Bitcoin ATM is that aligned with its decentralized feature, in fact, it is contrary to its existence as digital currency. Upon the various transactions that Bitcoin can be used with, I think it will be different in every establishment and situation. There are urgent expenses that should be taken into account immediately and there are establishment or individuals who do not acknowledge cryptocurrencies that significant which are some of the challenges that both Bitcoin holders and the market might encounter. At this time, I do not think that Bitcoin is capable yet to replace flat, but its function as a currency that shall be used as payment has been served well.

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Erm, it isn't supposed to change/replace currency. Probably a lot better for it to stand together with currency as mode of payments.

Quote from: Ifemini on March 07, 2020, 03:16:42 AM

For me, i do not think bitcoin can replace fiat totally, because when their are larger transactions to be processed, it takes hours or even a day, except you have to pay Higher fees to process your transaction.

I will love several suggestions below, to further enlighten and brighten my knowledge.

Erm, not sure but fees are made from exchanges. They are requested so that exchanges actually have a source of income to manage the equipment/servers/etc. they use to process transactions and the like. Now, if we use BTC as payment, a p2p format would probably be better with it having no need for fees (AFAIK) and being faster compared to exchanges when dealing with big transactions.

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Quote from: AGD on March 07, 2020, 04:23:24 AM

I bought a lot of different goods with Bitcoin and it always worked smoothly, which brings me to the conclusion that Bitcoin is a currency AND a store of value. Esp. 2nd layer solutions like Lightning brought instant confirmations. Bitcoin ATM cards are not needed to make payments.

That's true, but it works all fine as a currency until it comes to the fees. I've placed some orders on a website and all went very well until the day I found out the fees they took for every transaction was actually more than 5%.

That's a turn-off for me.

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Quote from: LogitechMouse on March 07, 2020, 08:34:18 AM

Quote from: Ifemini on March 07, 2020, 03:16:42 AM

I want to ask a question, if there is a Bitcoin ATM card, and you want to use it to pay bills such as an hotel booking, will the payment reflect instantly while the atm machine or Miners still has to process the transaction?

Bitcoin ATM isn't necessary right now since we can create a transaction thru digital phones only or other digital things.

That's right it's not necessary because other establishments used QR codes when accepting Bitcoin as a payment. I dont think if there is a Bitcoin ATM card, all I know is a Bitcoin ATM machine where you can buy/sell your Bitcoin.

As mentioned above, the Lightning Network will solve the problem for micro payment and it is faster than the regular transaction of Bitcoin.
If you don't understand what is Lightning Network you can read it here for more info, A Beginner's guideline to Bitcoin Lightning Network.

I dont think Bitcoin can replace fiat, they had a different function and both of them are useful to us. Just accept the fact that Bitcoin is good for an alternative when it comes to payment transactions online. Yet, Bitcoin is the number of digital currency I had ever known.

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Quote from: Ifemini on March 07, 2020, 03:16:42 AM

Today, i was discussing with my friend about bitcoin, and we argued that the world is trying to make bitcoin look like a currency, replacing fiat majorly and used as payment everywhere.

I want to ask a question, if there is a Bitcoin ATM card, and you want to use it to pay bills such as an hotel booking, will the payment reflect instantly while the atm machine or Miners still has to process the transaction?

Also, let’s say in the aspect of payment for services, would you have to wait for minutes? Or hours if there are large transactions to be processed, we are talking of when adoption eventually takes place in the world.
Remember what happened to binance yesterday when India lifted the ban on cryptocurrency, even binance exchange had to do a quick maintenance.

For me, i do not think bitcoin can replace fiat totally, because when their are larger transactions to be processed, it takes hours or even a day, except you have to pay Higher fees to process your transaction.

I will love several suggestions below, to further enlighten and brighten my knowledge.

True, bitcoin won't be able to completely replace fiat currency. People who think that bitcoin will soon take over the fiat currency system, are just day dreaming. The sad truth is, there are a lot of flaws in the current cryptocurrency system, mainly in bitcoin to be used a regular fiat currency. Like you said, the transaction confirmation time is one of the biggest problem. If one will have to wait more than 10 minutes while making purchases for their transactions to confirm, then its going to be really annoying. Unless some sort of plausible solution is found, it can not replace the fiat money completely. Though I do believe that bitcoin and fiat currency will be used side by side in harmony.

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Quote from: Ifemini on March 07, 2020, 03:16:42 AM

I want to ask a question, if there is a Bitcoin ATM card, and you want to use it to pay bills such as an hotel booking, will the payment reflect instantly while the atm machine or Miners still has to process the transaction?

Bitcoin ATM isn't necessary right now since we can create a transaction thru digital phones only or other digital things.

I have used my Bitcoin to buy things online and it went ok. I also used Bitcoin in other things (converting it into Fiat and buying other things). Regarding the Bitcoin ATM and the current state of Bitcoin right now, we know that the transaction speed of Bitcoin is not as fast as other ways of payment but still there are some developers who are developing a solution into it and LN is one of them.

Quote from: Ifemini on March 07, 2020, 03:16:42 AM

For me, i do not think bitcoin can replace fiat totally, because when their are larger transactions to be processed, it takes hours or even a day, except you have to pay Higher fees to process your transaction.

I don't think that too but I think that Bitcoin and crypto in general will be an "ALTERNATIVE" mode of payment aside from the fiat currency that we are using everyday. If Lightning Network will be use by many people then more and more establishments will accept Bitcoin in my opinion.

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Quote from: Ifemini on March 07, 2020, 03:28:40 AM

I am still of the believe that It’s hard for any coin to beat bitcoin and be the number one major King Coin in the crypto industry even with scalability being the major problem.

Imagine if I have to pay for a service and it’s taking longer before confirmation of payment. Yet, it’s hard for another coin to overthrown Bitcoin.

Which coin is the best coin to be used for scalability right now, If there is truly one, why are they not fixing it right, now. So as to convince the world that scalability isn’t a problem, so many coins have tried in the past and failed

Does anyone have a few examples?

Bitcoin is one of the largest cryptocurrency that has surely lots of investors in different country. It will be very hard to any competitors (not in bad terms) to beat or to become the top one in the digital currency. Bitcoin is the widely known digital currency. So I think, other coin cannot surpass bitcoin but they can go in the same level.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on March 07, 2020, 07:29:19 AM

Actually Bitcoin needs fiat currency to fuel its global value. Therefore it will never replace fiat in actual world. On the other hand Bitcoin is a digital currency and will replace fiat for digital transactions. The adoption is slow but gradually it is happening, considering Bitcoin is only a decade old.

With Lightening network you can send min 1 Satoshi and the payment is also instant.

Ok, i think i agree, but to my knowledge, lightening network is expensive as it consumes alot of power per transaction and it is not functional yet.

Litecoin and some projects only talked about it, but nothing yet.
Even recently, Matic has also made mention of it, any project yet finalized the lightening network ?

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Actually Bitcoin needs fiat currency to fuel its global value. Therefore it will never replace fiat in actual world. On the other hand Bitcoin is a digital currency and will replace fiat for digital transactions. The adoption is slow but gradually it is happening, considering Bitcoin is only a decade old.

With Lightening network you can send min 1 Satoshi and the payment is also instant.

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Quote from: joinfree on March 07, 2020, 05:52:24 AM

One thing that OP needs to understand is that it was Satoshi's vision to create Bitcoin as a digital currency to be used as a payment method in our daily lives but the design of it currently does not make it suitable to be adopted by over 7Billion people in this world. That would certainly jam the network but with the development of Lightning solutions, we hope to see confirmations made as fast as possible. So now bitcoin suits more as an asset than a currency because only a few people actually use it to make purchases.

Many people today are using the cryptocurrency or the most popular bitcoin because it is faster to transfer funds and also efficient than the use of the traditional way of transferring of earnings and profit, some of the people today are still afraid to the use of cryptocurrency because they know the misinformation came from the other sources that it is illegal, can cause of hacking and more but the truth about this bitcoin is its created to the future that we are heading towards on it, all of the transaction today are faster than the old way and also it is more secured because all of the transferring of funds are monitored also it is just for both parties that sending their funds and every transaction with the bitcoin is included with hashing or encrypted and the only one can decypher is the receiver.

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Quote from: Ifemini on March 07, 2020, 03:16:42 AM

For me, i do not think bitcoin can replace fiat totally, because when their are larger transactions to be processed, it takes hours or even a day, except you have to pay Higher fees to process your transaction.

Fiat has been here for a long time, and will be around for a while until it is completely replaced by digital currencies. The question is only how many years or decades will it take to completely disappear from use.

The big transactions you mention are not a problem for crypto, you can send $1 dollar or $1 million in BTC, and it just depends on the fees when the transaction will be confirmed. Only thing that we need to pay attention is size of transaction (number of inputs/outputs), and to use SegWit if we want to save on fees. If your transaction is had 1 input/2 outputs (standard transaction), you will pay same fee regardless of the amount you send.

Quote from: https://www.ccn.com/194-million-was-moved-using-bitcoin-with-0-1-fee-true-potential-of-crypto/

On October 16, a Bitcoin user moved 29,999 BTC worth $194 million with a $0.1 fee, a transaction which with banks would cost tens of thousands of dollars. An often pushed narrative against cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum is that it is expensive to clear…

As you can see from the example above, transactions in crypto can be very cheap, but you need to consider all the key factors when doing payment with crypto. If you need instant transaction, check current fees and apply them - if you can wait, just go with lower fees.

I use Bitcoin as currency, but also as store of value, one does not exclude the other, and this is one of the great advantages of Bitcoin.

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Thaths all about transaction processing time. Of course, bitcoin is not the best payment system

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One thing that OP needs to understand is that it was Satoshi's vision to create Bitcoin as a digital currency to be used as a payment method in our daily lives but the design of it currently does not make it suitable to be adopted by over 7Billion people in this world. That would certainly jam the network but with the development of Lightning solutions, we hope to see confirmations made as fast as possible. So now bitcoin suits more as an asset than a currency because only a few people actually use it to make purchases.

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Quote from: Ifemini on March 07, 2020, 03:16:42 AM

the world is trying to make bitcoin look like a currency, replacing fiat majorly and used as payment everywhere.

The world doesn't make it like a currency, but indeed it is created for a digital currency from the beginning (electronic cash for online payments). Please read the Bitcoin whitepaper for the detail information: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf.

Replacing fiat? Who said? Even on Bitcoin WP, I don't see Satoshi's statement saying "replacing fiats".
I don't think it will be fully replacing fiat because Bitcoin still has a weakness that can't cover people's needs around the world. But surely it will support and complete the current world's financial system with its advantages.

Quote from: Ifemini on March 07, 2020, 03:16:42 AM

if there is a Bitcoin ATM card, and you want to use it to pay bills such as an hotel booking

Why do we need Bitcoin ATM card? If there is a more effective way than using ATM card, people surely don't really need ATM card. Personally, I prefer to send Bitcoin from my wallet than using a service from a third party. Remember that Satoshi created Bitcoin in order to avoid the third party. No third party service will make faster, easier, cheaper, and more efficient transactions.

*In my view, using services of the third party just make a longer process in the transaction.

Bitcoin whitepaper: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

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Quote from: Ifemini on March 07, 2020, 03:16:42 AM

I want to ask a question, if there is a Bitcoin ATM card, and you want to use it to pay bills such as an hotel booking, will the payment reflect instantly while the atm machine or Miners still has to process the transaction?

Probably you dont need a physical bitcoin atm card, since bitcoin is digital and used to transact with different establishment.

I am using my btc to pay for some of the hotel, airline ticket and some reload balance so I cant say this can be considered yet as a currency but I am grateful for it as payment method to which I am always need. Some can say its not that worth it but for users like me. It is very useful.

Quote from: Ifemini on March 07, 2020, 03:28:40 AM

Imagine if I have to pay for a service and it’s taking longer before confirmation of payment.

That's not an issue for some stores and restaurant that accept BTC. Yes the payment could be delay but the tx has been done. It's just needed time to be process. Well scalability must be improved. There are many users that using the network is a prove that adoption is increasing.

Quote from: AGD on March 07, 2020, 04:23:24 AM

2nd layer solutions like Lightning brought instant confirmations.

Used this OP.

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I bought a lot of different goods with Bitcoin and it always worked smoothly, which brings me to the conclusion that Bitcoin is a currency AND a store of value. Esp. 2nd layer solutions like Lightning brought instant confirmations. Bitcoin ATM cards are not needed to make payments.

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I am still of the believe that It’s hard for any coin to beat bitcoin and be the number one major King Coin in the crypto industry even with scalability being the major problem.

Imagine if I have to pay for a service and it’s taking longer before confirmation of payment. Yet, it’s hard for another coin to overthrown Bitcoin.

Which coin is the best coin to be used for scalability right now, If there is truly one, why are they not fixing it right, now. So as to convince the world that scalability isn’t a problem, so many coins have tried in the past and failed

Does anyone have a few examples?

Topic: Bitcoin is not suitable as a currency, it's a store of value - page 3. (Read 1084 times)