Bitcoin Is Still bad? JPMorgan Chase Traders Accused Of Market Manipulation

deisik

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Quote from: Betwrong on September 30, 2019, 03:47:15 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 28, 2019, 10:37:11 AM

~Smaller markets are easier to manipulate (silver is not a very big market overall) but even the biggest markets get manipulated. It just requires more leverage which is not available to "regular" billionaires. This is the task for central banks and their likes. Obviously, you can't catch these as they are the ones who do all the catching (and punishment, for that matter)

Well, we can't catch them, but we can spot them, and at least we have the right to not participate in the manipulations. (By "participating" I mean allowing them to rob us.) Maybe we should invest less in what they tell us to invest in, and think more with our own head

That would be of little help

You would still have to use dollars, euro, rubles, whatever, whether you like it or not. And these are the biggest scams ever aimed to steal from you and your wealth (read, you are forced to "invest" in what they tell you after all). I know what you are going to say next, namely, that now we have crypto so we have essentially won that right back. Honestly, I wish I could agree with you

But is it really so? If crypto is just an assortment of speculative assets (for all practical intents and purposes), how much is it actually different? You still remain a toy in the hands of a bunch of rogue and extremely selfish market manipulators and whoever else might be hiding in the dark out there. In fact, the only real choice we have is to use what we've got to our advantage by gaming this very system

ecnalubma

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JPMorgan is only good on making noises by demoralising the market for their own good. This is how big companies attack young market like Bitcoin, they find it cheaper to influence the market by making bad statements rather than manipulating the prices on exchanges.

cotton ball

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Do not trust any one because they can't prediction how bitcoin and altcoin price at the future, many of their prediction always incorrect with how bitcoin and altcoin situation right now, they are talking about bitcoin will down but until now bitcoin still with higher price, many prediction just to make you panic.

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on October 01, 2019, 07:16:36 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Manipulation is always there. Even in the stock market there are manipulation. The best thing to do is to not be against to those whales or those people who manipulate the market and try to learn their behavior on how they manipulate the market so after you learn their tactics and strategies then that is when you join their flow of trading and make profit from their action.

You're right cause we cant actually go against the whales when they manipulate the market but also seize the opportunity to buy low. With that been said, the JPMorgan traders was not accused of manipulating the bitcoin market but the prices of gold, silver, platinum and palladium futures through the New York and Chicago Mercantile Exchanges.

What is then the assurance that we have that he is also not manipulating the market of Bitcoin also if he can manipulate the market of gold and all those big markets. I do not trust JP Morgan one second, and all those things that he might be saying about Bitcoin sometimes might just be camouflage to just create panic so that he will get the chance to buy low, because that is how the whales naturally manipulate the market.

JP Morgan has actually been a very had influence to the cryptocurrency market and I don't think that anyone should be paying so much attention to someone of is caliber since we already know that his is a bad market player and could actually be one of these people that has been manipulating the market.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Manipulation is always there. Even in the stock market there are manipulation. The best thing to do is to not be against to those whales or those people who manipulate the market and try to learn their behavior on how they manipulate the market so after you learn their tactics and strategies then that is when you join their flow of trading and make profit from their action.

You're right cause we cant actually go against the whales when they manipulate the market but also seize the opportunity to buy low. With that been said, the JPMorgan traders was not accused of manipulating the bitcoin market but the prices of gold, silver, platinum and palladium futures through the New York and Chicago Mercantile Exchanges.

ShooterXD

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Nothing new here.
Every time these big traders company willing try any kind of manipulation. Sometimes This will be successful, and with a minimum chance to being cached by SEC.
This is the True.

Betwrong

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Quote from: deisik on September 28, 2019, 10:37:11 AM

~Smaller markets are easier to manipulate (silver is not a very big market overall) but even the biggest markets get manipulated. It just requires more leverage which is not available to "regular" billionaires. This is the task for central banks and their likes. Obviously, you can't catch these as they are the ones who do all the catching (and punishment, for that matter)

Well, we can't catch them, but we can spot them, and at least we have the right to not participate in the manipulations. (By "participating" I mean allowing them to rob us.) Maybe we should invest less in what they tell us to invest in, and think more with our own head.

deisik

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Quote from: micher143 on September 28, 2019, 10:45:43 PM

Market manipulation is anywhere, even is stock it is manipulated by whales, I think it is just fined because it happens in every type of currency or trades. we need just to be cautious in investing, many coin which have a small volume can be manipulated, just stay out of it and you will be just fine

Technically, there are two major varieties of market manipulation

The first, which you refer to in your post, i.e. manipulation by big players and market movers ("whales" as people call them here) may not even be considered proper manipulation by some (even though such activities can be prohibited by governing bodies and agencies such as CFTC, SEC and their likes) because it is market manipulation carried out by market means via exploiting one's financial leverage

On the other hand, there is market manipulation of a more evil or even destructive type. This manipulation is done not by traders (whales or otherwise) but by entities which have a leverage other than purely financial. These are exchanges themselves first and foremost as well as all those trading commissions already mentioned (don't be surprised here). This type of manipulation is inherently evil as it destroys the market when it runs wild

micher143

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Market manipulation is anywhere, even is stock it is manipulated by whales, I think it is just fined because it happens in every type of currency or trades. we need just to be cautious in investing, many coin which have a small volume can be manipulated, just stay out of it and you will be just fine.

deisik

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Quote from: Betwrong on September 28, 2019, 09:58:42 AM

Quote from: deisik on September 28, 2019, 01:37:10 AM

~
This is just human nature and you can't do anything with it apart from catching transgressors and punishing them appropriately (which would raise that ratio and make it prohibitively expensive to break the rules). The Hunt brothers case is a classic in the market manipulation genre

Great example! It shows us what kind of people can manipulate the market. Just read the quote below:

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday

The Hunts lost over a billion dollars through this incident, but the family fortunes survived.

Those guys lost $1 billion, but it was okay because their family had $4 billion more. So you have to be not simply rich, but super rich, with billions of USD, to do such things

This is only a tip of the iceberg

Silver market is especially shiny (pardon the pun) for its manipulation propensity but it is definitely not the only pebble on the beach. Smaller markets are easier to manipulate (silver is not a very big market overall) but even the biggest markets get manipulated. It just requires more leverage which is not available to "regular" billionaires. This is the task for central banks and their likes. Obviously, you can't catch these as they are the ones who do all the catching (and punishment, for that matter)

Pab

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I am curious what kind of penalty they will get
I am more and more sure that we have that kind of great traders in bitcoin trading
It is paradise for them.All kind of dirty tricks are legal .With some printed money they can move markets as they wants.we still don"t here news that they were manipulating gold,silver and bitcoin market.Hope it will happen one day

djsugar

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This market manipulation has become a daily routine of these investment banks. Investment banks and hedge funds make up to 60%-70% of the total volume traded on US exchanges. Hence, come the big advantage of manipulating the daily trades and volumes. Recently, Goldman Sachs came on news for the exact same reason. They get fined time and again by regulatory authorities but that changes nothing. This is sad reality the major concentration is with a few.

Betwrong

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Quote from: deisik on September 28, 2019, 01:37:10 AM

~
This is just human nature and you can't do anything with it apart from catching transgressors and punishing them appropriately (which would raise that ratio and make it prohibitively expensive to break the rules). The Hunt brothers case is a classic in the market manipulation genre

Great example! It shows us what kind of people can manipulate the market. Just read the quote below:

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday

The Hunts lost over a billion dollars through this incident, but the family fortunes survived.

Those guys lost $1 billion, but it was okay because their family had $4 billion more. So you have to be not simply rich, but super rich, with billions of USD, to do such things.

Now, let's think of where, on what markets, we have more billionaires, on crypto or on regular ones? I bet it's the latter. So, at least we can safely assume that manipulations happen everywhere, not only in the field of crypto.

deisik

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Quote from: Kemarit on September 17, 2019, 06:00:06 PM

Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin

I wouldn't blame just JPMorgan traders

Every trader would do essentially the same in absolutely any market (gold, crude oil, and, yes, crypto too) as long as the risk/reward ratio is acceptable to them. In more mundane terms, if they can pull off some trick that is considered illegal or even outright prohibited but there is a high chance to get away with it, you can be damn sure some will go for it to earn a buck or two

This is just human nature and you can't do anything with it apart from catching transgressors and punishing them appropriately (which would raise that ratio and make it prohibitively expensive to break the rules). The Hunt brothers case is a classic in the market manipulation genre

marcbitcoins

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It would be really bad if this true that the business magnet JP Morgan involve in manipulating the market as it will give ugly reputation to the crypto market in which it will make the investors to stay away from Bitcoin but what is his true motive of doing this? Is he is a Bitcoin supporter or a destroyer? As i think manipulation is very common to all market.

Dread Pirate Roberts

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When talking crypto market with the stock market is certainly very different. they trade based on the real activity of a real project that is sure to have an impact. and they are required to make a definite profit or with a large percentage to make a profit. different from crypto market. so from the way they think and crypto traders it's definitely different.

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Quote from: Kemarit on September 17, 2019, 06:00:06 PM

Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin.

The main difference is that if the authorities have enough evidence for the manipulation they will be fined a hefty amount as well as suspend them from trading for an amount of time and bitcoin market needs to get rid of these manipulation and FUD and for that regulation in the market is needed, bitcoin will be seen as a market for all these manipulators to invest Grin

.

BitHodler

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Quote from: teosanru on September 27, 2019, 03:57:01 AM

Who said that the stock markets are not manipulated? I have worked myself in a major stock trading firm and Insider trading is a routine activity unless and until you play foolishly and get caught.

It happens on all levels indeed. The difference is that in the legacy markets the manipulation is much more advanced and less in the picture, while in crypto you can reek and actually see it from miles away.

Quote from: teosanru on September 27, 2019, 03:57:01 AM

You know the worst part is that many a times SEC too gets compromised in this. I don't want to sound like a whistle blower but Generally the big cases you hear about insider trading are the one's which are absolutely impossible to hide from eyes of normal public so SEC too is forced to take a strong action.

I think the underlying problem is that people assume that regulators (doesn't matter what part of the industry they guard) are constantly monitoring market activity to curb down potential abuse, but that's definitely not the case.

In most cases they are being tipped or start an investigation after many complaints. From there it's not too surprising that it may seem they only go after the most obvious cases of manipulation.

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Quote from: Kemarit on September 17, 2019, 06:00:06 PM

Bitcoin Is Still bad? JPMorgan Chase Traders Accused Of Market Manipulation, Again!

Quote

The U.S. Department of Justice has charged top managers at JPMorgan Chase of market manipulation, Reuters reports. For the better part of a decade, according to DoJ charges, traders Gregg Smith, Michael Nowak and Christopher Jordan allegedly manipulated prices of gold, silver, platinum and palladium futures on the New York and Chicago Mercantile Exchanges. JPMorgan Traders Accused Of Market Manipulation

The individuals under indictment hold high-profile roles at JPMorgan Chase & Co. Smith is an executive director and trader on the precious metals desk, while Nowak runs the entire desk as a managing director. Both are still employed at JPMorgan, though they were suspended in light of the indictment.

Jordan left JPMorgan in 2009 but continued to trade precious metals with in other firms.

The trio is accused of spoofing, a practice where the trader places bids to buy or sell contracts which are canceled before execution, allowing them to influence prices to their benefit. The scale involved was massive, with prosecutors alleging that they were conducting thousands of unlawful trading actions while layering orders in rapid succession.

https://thecoinrise.com/bitcoin-is-still-bad-jpmorgan-chase-traders-accused-of-market-manipulation-again/

Oh well, what do you expect from people behind JP Morgan, they made a noise about Bitcoin is 2017 saying nasty things and then manipulating the price in their favor. Now, we see what this company are made of, greedy, manipulators, I'm sure they can pay the fine. But I do hope that their investors would shift their funds to Bitcoin.

Who said that the stock markets are not manipulated? I have worked myself in a major stock trading firm and Insider trading is a routine activity unless and until you play foolishly and get caught. You know the worst part is that many a times SEC too gets compromised in this. I don't want to sound like a whistle blower but Generally the big cases you hear about insider trading are the one's which are absolutely impossible to hide from eyes of normal public so SEC too is forced to take a strong action. Otherwise Insider trading is something too cool and stock traders love to stay in touch with KMP of major companies to get this information regularly.

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Quote from: abhiseshakana on September 26, 2019, 02:22:02 AM

When discussing JP Morgan's sentiments towards Bitcoin we must try to find out what their interests are?
Psychologically they are banking giants in the United States and the World. They have planted their hegemony in the banking industry at enormous expense, they are traditional conservative people who want to maintain their hegemony.

JP Morgan feels their hegemony is threatened by the existence of cryptocurrency, they realize that it is only a matter of time before some of the world's population realizes the benefits of the digital economy. If the internet can shut down mass media companies, giant retail stores close outlets, they fear bitcoin will castrate JP Morgan's role in the banking industry.

It is all about profit and about money
Adoption and innovation of advanced technology is absolute and cannot be avoided by anyone. What JP Morgan is doing now is just an attempt to slow down the process of losing hegemony.

We are not really discussing JPMorgans sentiment towards bitcoin though. I mean surely they don't like bitcoin at all and they accused it being so easy to manipulate (they are right on that) but at the same time it doesn't matter because Goldman Sachs another huge company like them bought out Circle payment systems which owns poloniex, which shows that not all big money is against bitcoin, some maybe against it but some are supporting it, plus these are huge companies that usually does what CEO wants so maybe CEO of JPMorgan may not like bitcoin but surely there must be some investors of bitcoin working there.

No, the discussion here was that yes bitcoin is easy to manipulate but that doesn't mean there is no manipulation in other markets as well, there are plenty of them provable by the message OP wrote.

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