Bitcoin is Still Economically Useless = Economist - page 5.

Iranus

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Quote from: Solosanz on July 31, 2024, 03:52:14 AM

Anything that has a value can be used for money laundering and extortion, actually it's harder for Bitcoin to be used for money laundering and extortion since the blockchain is public and can't be deleted, unlike traditional ledger in banks where they can delete or manipulate the data, if it's trade in physical, it has no trace and better than Bitcoin for illegal usage.

Speaking about economy, it's really a wide subject. If someone earn profit by investing in Bitcoin, it already has economy beneficial.

Although bitcoin has a public blockchain but tracking it is not easy and we cannot deny that bitcoin has been a favorite medium for criminals. That's why the government has cracked down heavily on coin mixing services over the past year, as it's difficult to track criminals when they use bitcoin in conjunction with mixers. But we cannot blame bitcoin because criminals are also using fiat currency, banking system, cash for their crimes. After all, all illegal acts originate from human behavior, not the fault of fiat or bitcoin.

I agree with you, if someone can make money by investing in bitcoin then it means it has a positive impact on the economy. Bitcoin is creating many millionaires and billionaires in the world, so saying that it is useless is a stupid statement.

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An economist making such a statement about an asset such as bitcoin fails from the standard of economist practice, because if he can make such a statement about bitcoin not having economic value how much more will he say about gold and other none non-transferable assets?

Trump's support for crypto was born out of his convictions about the technology and what role bitcoin can play in increasing the economic values in the state, take El Salvador for example, how far they have gone in their bitcoin state reserve.

Solosanz

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Anything that has a value can be used for money laundering and extortion, actually it's harder for Bitcoin to be used for money laundering and extortion since the blockchain is public and can't be deleted, unlike traditional ledger in banks where they can delete or manipulate the data, if it's trade in physical, it has no trace and better than Bitcoin for illegal usage.

Speaking about economy, it's really a wide subject. If someone earn profit by investing in Bitcoin, it already has economy beneficial.

laijsica

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Quote from: CryptoBuds on July 31, 2024, 03:20:15 AM

I would object if someone said that bitcoin has a big impact on the world economy but I also disagree when saying that bitcoin is completely useless for the economy. Bitcoin can create profits for many people, bitcoin-related services such as exchanges, ETFs, investors...all these things not only create jobs for some people but also bring significant tax revenue to the government. How can we say that bitcoin is useless for our economy?

I have no idea who this guy is and I suspect he doesn't even know what bitcoin is. In addition, I think we can see for ourselves everything from bitcoin, the advantages and disadvantages that bitcoin brings us. We don't need to ask someone to evaluate bitcoin for us, especially someone who doesn't know what it is.

I totally agree with you. Bitcoin can introduce a sustainable financial system regardless of rich and poor in today's mostly capitalist state system that advocates financial independence and ownership of its valuable assets. In his opinion, if useless, he should explain why Bitcoin's price skyrocketed in such a short period of time and that its upward trend is increasing. Bitcoin has emerged as an important hedge with any financial system.

Due to the decentralized system, investors are so interested in Bitcoin that it can create separate economic zones beyond the borders of different countries, which is happening now and will expand in the future.

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I would object if someone said that bitcoin has a big impact on the world economy but I also disagree when saying that bitcoin is completely useless for the economy. Bitcoin can create profits for many people, bitcoin-related services such as exchanges, ETFs, investors...all these things not only create jobs for some people but also bring significant tax revenue to the government. How can we say that bitcoin is useless for our economy?

I have no idea who this guy is and I suspect he doesn't even know what bitcoin is. In addition, I think we can see for ourselves everything from bitcoin, the advantages and disadvantages that bitcoin brings us. We don't need to ask someone to evaluate bitcoin for us, especially someone who doesn't know what it is.

Blitzboy

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It is wrong to say that Bitcoin is "economically useless". Everything new is attacked; this is how things go. But emphasising issues like money laundering ignores the whole picture. The truly big picture. Bitcoin is about financial freedom, folks. People can utilise Bitcoin in nations without sophisticated banks. Their pass to the marketplaces of the globe. That is actual economic value just there. Blockchain is amazing; its security is unchangeable. That is enormous for every type of company.

This goes beyond just money, folks. Its about empowering people and tearing down obstacles. Bitcoin upends the old systems, links us all, and generates new employment. Although some people might not understand it yet, that is normal. Bitcoin seems to me to be an innovation and a real tool for good. Believe me.

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Quote from: ContentWriter on July 30, 2024, 03:16:43 PM

This guy may have made sense, though I suspect he's a Democrat. Apart from early holders making a killing off Bitcoin, how has it benefitted the world economy? Your opinion though...

Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman said that Tech-bro's support for Trump and Vance seems to be related to cryptocurrency/ He said that in reality. Bitcoin is still economically useless and useful just for money laundering and extortion. He described Trump's call for the creation of some kind of national Bitcoin reserve as equivalent to the government rescuing a scandal-ridden, value- and environment-destroying industry.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/29/opinion/vance-trump-cryptocurrency.html

Bitcoin is actually able to provide quite good changes to economic progress. For example, in El Salvador, after the country adopted bitcoin, the country's economy slowly experienced quite good improvements. Apart from that, if someone says that Bitcoin is widely used for fraud or used for money laundering. I think this is a very inappropriate opinion for this person to express. Because did he know that paper money is much more often used to do these evil things? The reason is that in 2022 the US Treasury Department and Europol also said that fraudsters were targeting paper money more than virtual assets. So with these facts, it means that saying that crypto or bitcoin is an asset that is widely used for criminal acts such as money laundering is very wrong.

Quote

The US Department of the Treasury in its 2022 National Money Laundering Risk Assessment² highlighted how fiat and traditional financial activities still far outnumber the use of virtual assets to conduct illicit activities. Likewise, EUROPOL in its 2021 Spotlight, Cryptocurrency: Tracing the Evolution of Criminal Finance,³ stated: “The overall number and value of cryptocurrency transactions linked to criminal activity still represents only a small portion of the criminal economy when compared to cash and other forms other transactions".

Source: https://www.unit21.ai/blog/combat-crypto-fraud-via-fiat

So in my opinion, people who say that crypto assets or bitcoin are often used to commit criminal acts, I think those people only see the case from one side. Plus it seems like the person doesn't like bitcoin and doesn't study it at all. That's why this person only talks about Bitcoin from the bad side, which is actually very small.

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Quote from: ContentWriter on July 30, 2024, 03:16:43 PM

This guy may have made sense, though I suspect he's a Democrat. Apart from early holders making a killing off Bitcoin, how has it benefitted the world economy? Your opinion though...

Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman said that Tech-bro's support for Trump and Vance seems to be related to cryptocurrency/ He said that in reality. Bitcoin is still economically useless and useful just for money laundering and extortion. He described Trump's call for the creation of some kind of national Bitcoin reserve as equivalent to the government rescuing a scandal-ridden, value- and environment-destroying industry.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/29/opinion/vance-trump-cryptocurrency.html

A 71-year-old economist who won the Nobel Prize in 2008 because of his work on economic geography and global trade patterns shouldn't be taken seriously. The field of economics is broad and dynamic, and an individual, no matter how intelligent he is, cannot understand all its intricacies. Maybe he does not know about cryptocurrencies, and instead of learning, he chooses to throw shades.

This attack might also have a political undertone since Paul Krugman is a well-known critic of the Republican party. He once called it the "party of the stupid". He is still in the dark and might be disappointed by the steady growth of Bitcoin's popularity. Let him check the statistics of the currency that is highly used by criminals and his perspective will change.

OgNasty

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If you’ve never been in a situation where you have your money held hostage by banks or governments, you might not appreciate what Bitcoin has to offer. If you haven’t lived long enough to watch inflation change people’s quality of life, you might not appreciate what Bitcoin has to offer. If you’ve never had to send funds quickly to another country, you might not appreciate what Bitcoin has to offer. I’m guessing the author has lived a life void of real world experiences.

avikz

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Quote from: ContentWriter on July 30, 2024, 03:16:43 PM

This guy may have made sense, though I suspect he's a Democrat. Apart from early holders making a killing off Bitcoin, how has it benefitted the world economy? Your opinion though...

Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman said that Tech-bro's support for Trump and Vance seems to be related to cryptocurrency/ He said that in reality. Bitcoin is still economically useless and useful just for money laundering and extortion. He described Trump's call for the creation of some kind of national Bitcoin reserve as equivalent to the government rescuing a scandal-ridden, value- and environment-destroying industry.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/29/opinion/vance-trump-cryptocurrency.html

It's a personal opinion and every individual can have a personal opinion on everything under the sun. I don't see any issue here. Bitcoin has a long list of influential haters. That includes people like Warren Buffet, Jemie Dimon, Almost all Democrat senators in US etc. It's just one addition to that list. It has no impact on Bitcoin whatsoever. The environment things a long-standing narrative against Bitcoin. So that's all fine. Haters gonna hate!

But one thing I agree about Trump. He is seeing that Bitcoiners in US need support due to the actions from various enforcement agencies and ongoing harassments. So Trump is very cleverly targeting this community and promising to become their support system. It is true that Trump will eventually win this election. The chance is very promising after the attack on him. But never trust a politician unless you see some actions in reality. Take a cautious approach in proclaiming yourself as an ardent Bitcoin supporter in US. Might not go well with the enforcement agencies in case Trump looses the election.

davis196

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Quote from: ContentWriter on July 30, 2024, 03:16:43 PM

This guy may have made sense, though I suspect he's a Democrat. Apart from early holders making a killing off Bitcoin, how has it benefitted the world economy? Your opinion though...

Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman said that Tech-bro's support for Trump and Vance seems to be related to cryptocurrency/ He said that in reality. Bitcoin is still economically useless and useful just for money laundering and extortion. He described Trump's call for the creation of some kind of national Bitcoin reserve as equivalent to the government rescuing a scandal-ridden, value- and environment-destroying industry.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/29/opinion/vance-trump-cryptocurrency.html

"Environment-destroying"? It's 2024 and the crypto haters are still bitching and whining about crypto mining polluting the environment, even though many crypto miners moved to green energy.
Krugman and most macroeconomists are crypto haters. I get their point and I totally understand that Bitcoin/crypto has a questionable utility.
However, they are missing the point about "being your own bank" and holding a valuable asset in your own wallet, without relying on third parties and middlemen. I also agree that Trump's idea about a Bitcoin national reserve is kinda stupid and pointless.

pooya87

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Quote from: _act_ on July 30, 2024, 04:23:11 PM

I do not expect a nobel prize-winning economist to say something like this.

Why not?

You think highly of the prize because of some of those who won this award named after the inventor of the first weapon of mass destruction. If you check the whole list, you'll see it's filled with people who not only didn't deserve the prize but also they should not even be free!

As for Krugman's prize, it's in something very silly and not exactly economy related. It's not surprising he's saying some nonsense about Bitcoin at all. Not to mention that his statements are more political (bashing a candidate in the upcoming election) than being about Bitcoin itself.

Yaunfitda

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Lol, and that's why we really love Bitcoin, everyone has it's own opinion, from a nobel price winning economist to a simply average joe you can find here. And with that, it's obvious that we have seen the effect of Bitcoin. We have the pandemic and there are reports that it has been used as a hedge by some wealthy people. So there's a lot of pros and cons of Bitcoin that even if it has existed for the last 10 years, everyone's opinion is totally different. Or every one is opinionated about it, even if they don't have the experience (I assumed that Paul Krugman doesn't own BTC, or at least do not understand what cryptocurrency is). So for me, his opinion doesn't matter to us, we've been here, done that and no one can take that away from us.

boyptc

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Before, he's right. Even so, there's been a small economic contribution already from the Bitcoin community.

But he should look at the actual scene on how Bitcoin is being used right now. There's so more to what he said but I disagree to what he has said.

Anyway, no matter what the title of someone has. It seems that it's no longer wisdom that they're saying but he's entitled for that.

Pokapoka124

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I think the world has moved past the point where people would cling on to the word of a man just because of his title, degree or awards. Politicians, economists, and some so called financial experts have always labeled bitcoin as a scam and a currency used only by criminals and terrorists. Their story hasn’t changed one bit. I think they believe that if they can paint Bitcoin to be bad then people wouldn’t get involved in Bitcoin.

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If financial inclusion of the poor does not benefit the economy then what is?
If the creation of job does not benefit the economy then what is?
If technological advancement does not benefit the economy then what is?
If the increase of ability of an individual in purchasing power does not benefit the economy then what is?

I believe the person who stated that Bitcoin is economically useless failed to understand the features of Bitcoin and the technology behind it.

It is worth reading this article: https://www.pelicoin.com/blog/what-is-the-economic-impact-of-cryptocurrency that explains the economic impact of Bitcoin and its features.

mrmacintosh

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Quote from: ContentWriter on July 30, 2024, 03:16:43 PM

This guy may have made sense, though I suspect he's a Democrat. Apart from early holders making a killing off Bitcoin, how has it benefitted the world economy? Your opinion though...

Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman said that Tech-bro's support for Trump and Vance seems to be related to cryptocurrency/ He said that in reality. Bitcoin is still economically useless and useful just for money laundering and extortion. He described Trump's call for the creation of some kind of national Bitcoin reserve as equivalent to the government rescuing a scandal-ridden, value- and environment-destroying industry.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/29/opinion/vance-trump-cryptocurrency.html

First time on this forum, but this economist only exists to support the current scam that is known as fiat. That's basically any mainstream economist. I haven't trusted an economist since Milton. Milton had some sound arguments, but he never thought of dissolving the dependency on the government money supply.

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Quote from: ContentWriter on July 30, 2024, 03:16:43 PM

This guy may have made sense, though I suspect he's a Democrat. Apart from early holders making a killing off Bitcoin, how has it benefitted the world economy? Your opinion though...

Bitcoin does not only benefits the economy, bit its a life changer currency in which has many applicable uses in satisfying the entire financial needs of the people in this dilapidating economy all around the world, there are many opportunities and benefits that comes with the adoption of bitcoin for use in which we cannot start mentioning now, because they are numerous, those that have accepted to use bitcoin knows about many of the advantages and benefits in which they got served through bitcoin adoption in the economy.

_act_

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I do not expect a nobel prize-winning economist to say something like this. They will not know anything about bitcoin but prefer to start misinforming people and feeding them with wrong information.

Bitcoin pave ways to other cryptocurrencies. Exchanges then were created. Wallets were created. Many other businesses were created. These businesses employed people. The people they employed buy things which is an indirect means of helping economy.

If you hold bitcoin and earn money from it, that will indirectly help economy.

How about miners. There are bitcoin miners. They create job and pay money for electricity.

If that man know how bitcoin and crypto has created jobs and opportunities to people, he will not say such thing.

ContentWriter

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This guy may have made sense, though I suspect he's a Democrat. Apart from early holders making a killing off Bitcoin, how has it benefitted the world economy? Your opinion though...

Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman said that Tech-bro's support for Trump and Vance seems to be related to cryptocurrency/ He said that in reality. Bitcoin is still economically useless and useful just for money laundering and extortion. He described Trump's call for the creation of some kind of national Bitcoin reserve as equivalent to the government rescuing a scandal-ridden, value- and environment-destroying industry.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/29/opinion/vance-trump-cryptocurrency.html

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