Bitcoin is the most expensive vaporware in the history of software industry

darkangel11

legendary

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Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

Quote from: AmazonStuff on December 22, 2017, 06:44:57 PM

Your assumption is completely wrong. As you can see I'm here since 2012, bought first coins at $6, earned more than you can think, I don't use BTC anymore for trading, I don't use exchanges, I only use BTC for transfers. Only reason why I'm pissed off is because I built a business around BTC and I can't use the protocol anymore because of transfer fees.

So, at the moment when people are choosing other coins like LTC to transfer money fast and cheap between the exchanges and then rebuy their BTC you're still using it for transfers? Bitcoin is great for holding, trading, but expensive to transfer and you have built your business around transfering money with BTC. Haha good one, I can already see why you're quote:

Quote from: Wilhelm on December 22, 2017, 02:06:28 PM

OP is butt hurt

Worry not, with lightning network you should be able to get back on your horse in 6 months.

Quote from: AmazonStuff on December 22, 2017, 06:44:57 PM

It's not possible to use BTC for business anymore, try to sell/buy goods or services for BTC, transfer fees will eat sellers profit or you will have price too high compared to the price of people who are selling something for USD. On the other hand, buyers of goods or services would pay too much for the product.

Bitcoin without business people and without final customers will die, because no real value is added, no products or services are offered, it would become obscure virtual virtual virtual crypto-currency which you can't spend anywhere. Why would anyone use BTC if USD/BTC---->BTC/USD route is more expensive compared to to USD---->USD route?

You claim to be around for a long time and having earned a lot of money but you still haven't learned that BTC is not what you should be using to buy a coffee or pay for parking. It has other functions as well and with fees of 2-3 USD it wasn't being used for microtransactions for over a year.

AmazonStuff

hero member

Activity: 628

Merit: 500

Quote from: darkangel11 on December 22, 2017, 01:55:41 PM

It looks to me like our OP is one of those people lured by the promises of fast and easy money. "listen dude you buy bitcoin and a month later you sell with 2x profit! I've seen a program of those young millionaires one dude has 3 million USD at the age of 20!" and now it's like
-mom, dad , I lost some of your money, they were all saying it's going to be going up, they promised me! Cry

-where did they promise you?
-on the forum! They were saying "to the moon" and so I went!

Back to reality OP, if you don't understand something don't follow the crowd. It usually doesn't end good.

Your assumption is completely wrong. As you can see I'm here since 2012, bought first coins at $6, earned more than you can think, I don't use BTC anymore for trading, I don't use exchanges, I only use BTC for transfers. Only reason why I'm pissed off is because I built a business around BTC and I can't use the protocol anymore because of transfer fees.

It's not possible to use BTC for business anymore, try to sell/buy goods or services for BTC, transfer fees will eat sellers profit or you will have price too high compared to the price of people who are selling something for USD. On the other hand, buyers of goods or services would pay too much for the product.

Bitcoin without business people and without final customers will die, because no real value is added, no products or services are offered, it would become obscure virtual virtual virtual crypto-currency which you can't spend anywhere. Why would anyone use BTC if USD/BTC---->BTC/USD route is more expensive compared to to USD---->USD route?

lizardbtc

full member

Activity: 448

Merit: 109

Quote from: AmazonStuff on December 22, 2017, 01:21:17 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on December 22, 2017, 12:56:21 PM

Quote from: sjefdeklerk on December 22, 2017, 12:54:44 PM

Lightning network goes against the decentralized philosophy of cryptocoins, that's why it will fail. Another cryptocoin that's not as flawed at its core will take over, that makes much more sense than some centralized patching system like lightning network: https://medium.com/@curt0/lightning-network-will-likely-fail-due-to-several-possible-reasons-336c6c47f049

Let's see how one operates before condemning it, no? I personally don't have the slightest clue how it's all going to work. I'll wait to see one in real life before deciding.

Go try Ripple (if you dare), they have "lightning network" called "payment channel". I used Ripple in 2013 and it's terrible and I won't use it ever again. Maybe it would be a good introduction how hard would it be to live in a centralized crypto. Problem with centralized is that you are not free, you must obey by their rules, for example bitcoin exchange website can freeze your account, block you until you get verified etc, same could happen in the centralized crypto world.

There will be other crypto-currency solutions, I didn't say that crypto-currency is dead, bitcoin is dead because technically it's heading in the wrong direction. Blockchain is the only true solution, avoid everything offchained and centralized.

I expect that the future of crypto-currency world would be in concurrent blockchains, find one that is cheapest, fastest, most secure etc, blockchain usability would dictate blockchain's crypto-currency value.

You can always try to make another fork or another altcoin if you believe that theres something else that can be done. Or you can just simply go and support Bitcoin Cash as I believe it is one of the most recognizable fork out there that could take up bitcoins place I don't say that it will but it might; or support some other fork. It depends on how all plays out. You could go and support other projects if you don't like bitcoin.

LN will bring centralization, but with centralization it will bring a lot of new features as well. SO far there is no perfect crypto out there that supports all needs.

Thing is I can't change much, nor you can. We know what are the plans for development of "main devs" of bitcoin who control its development. As software is open source we all can go and change what we don't like - sadly I don't like to start alone on new coin its easier for me to look for existing one because it will take a lot of work to get your coin to be heard out.

Biodom

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Quote from: AmazonStuff on December 22, 2017, 12:28:19 PM

Bitcoin just doesn't deliver what he promises, cheap and fast money transactions. Transactions via BTC network are not cheap at all ($55 per transaction and raising), they are the most expensive transactions around, plus you can't even make a transaction because network is clogged, 282 000 unconfirmed transactions, we only have a promise of Lightning Network as a solution for this problem, solution that is not fully implemented, solution that is not Bitcoin, promise is not a solution, promise in software industry is called vaporware. In my honest opinion, after 5+ years of using BTC, currently it's worth $0 (ZERO).

the baby that fell down and scratched his/her knee is worth zero in your calculation (crying, not moving, cannot do anything).
Otherwise, your opinion is noted. re vaporware-tell it to mr softie. They had perfected the art.

Wilhelm

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Merit: 1265

Quote from: darkangel11 on December 22, 2017, 01:55:41 PM

It looks to me like our OP is one of those people lured by the promises of fast and easy money. "listen dude you buy bitcoin and a month later you sell with 2x profit! I've seen a program of those young millionaires one dude has 3 million USD at the age of 20!" and now it's like
-mom, dad , I lost some of your money, they were all saying it's going to be going up, they promised me! Cry

-where did they promise you?
-on the forum! They were saying "to the moon" and so I went!

Back to reality OP, if you don't understand something don't follow the crowd. It usually doesn't end good.

tl;dr; ?

OP is butt hurt

Wilhelm

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Activity: 1652

Merit: 1265

Quote from: sjefdeklerk on December 22, 2017, 01:07:15 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on December 22, 2017, 12:56:21 PM

Let's see how one operates before condemning it, no? I personally don't have the slightest clue how it's all going to work. I'll wait to see one in real life before deciding.

A lot of details are known already and it's just worthless. LN is much more like traditional banking than cryptocoins. The revolution won't stop, Bitcoin will die but some other coin will survive. Decentralized money is here to stay, Lightning Network is not an option.

I know little about LN but considering your statement I can still see the following

- Countries have their banking system.
- Bitcoin promises full decentralization.
- Lightning network creates a banking system that is global and not country owned.

For now the best of both worlds when considering the Blockchain to be the winning technology and not the decentralization of money.

PhilippeStevens

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Bitcoin software is actually not only free but open-source under a fairly unrestrictive license. It's not software people are paying for.

darkangel11

legendary

Activity: 2478

Merit: 1360

Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

It looks to me like our OP is one of those people lured by the promises of fast and easy money. "listen dude you buy bitcoin and a month later you sell with 2x profit! I've seen a program of those young millionaires one dude has 3 million USD at the age of 20!" and now it's like
-mom, dad , I lost some of your money, they were all saying it's going to be going up, they promised me! Cry

-where did they promise you?
-on the forum! They were saying "to the moon" and so I went!

Back to reality OP, if you don't understand something don't follow the crowd. It usually doesn't end good.

Anti-Cen

member

Activity: 210

Merit: 26

High fees = low BTC price

Quote from: AmazonStuff on December 22, 2017, 12:28:19 PM

$55 per transaction and raising

I hope you jest, they are locking the doors so we cannot get out at these prices and if I do get out
then sod them, i will not be coming back after being burned

The whole block-chain concept from a software point of view is bloatware but who is a
MCSD, Mcp, Msc software developers of 30 years under his belt to argue with.

gentlemand

legendary

Activity: 2590

Merit: 3015

Welt Am Draht

Quote from: AmazonStuff on December 22, 2017, 01:21:17 PM

Go try Ripple (if you dare), they have "lightning network" called "payment channel". I used Ripple in 2013 and it's terrible and I won't use it ever again. Maybe it would be a good introduction how hard would it be to live in a centralized crypto. Problem with centralized is that you are not free, you must obey by their rules, for example bitcoin exchange website can freeze your account, block you until you get verified etc, same could happen in the centralized crypto world.

There will be other crypto-currency solutions, I didn't say that crypto-currency is dead, bitcoin is dead because technically it's heading in the wrong direction. Blockchain is the only true solution, avoid everything offchained and centralized.

I expect that the future of crypto-currency world would be in concurrent blockchains, find one that is cheapest, fastest, most secure etc, blockchain usability would dictate blockchain's crypto-currency value.

Like I said, judge when it's there winking at you in your wallet. Until then it's nothing but conjecture, and pointless conjecture to boot. It could a heap of shit. It could be the saviour of everything. No one here is qualified to answer shit yet.

fabiorem

sr. member

Activity: 1400

Merit: 347

Quote from: sjefdeklerk on December 22, 2017, 01:07:15 PM

Bitcoin will die but some other coin will survive.

What other coin? Let me guess... WAVES? IOTA?

AmazonStuff

hero member

Activity: 628

Merit: 500

Quote from: gentlemand on December 22, 2017, 12:56:21 PM

Quote from: sjefdeklerk on December 22, 2017, 12:54:44 PM

Lightning network goes against the decentralized philosophy of cryptocoins, that's why it will fail. Another cryptocoin that's not as flawed at its core will take over, that makes much more sense than some centralized patching system like lightning network: https://medium.com/@curt0/lightning-network-will-likely-fail-due-to-several-possible-reasons-336c6c47f049

Let's see how one operates before condemning it, no? I personally don't have the slightest clue how it's all going to work. I'll wait to see one in real life before deciding.

Go try Ripple (if you dare), they have "lightning network" called "payment channel". I used Ripple in 2013 and it's terrible and I won't use it ever again. Maybe it would be a good introduction how hard would it be to live in a centralized crypto. Problem with centralized is that you are not free, you must obey by their rules, for example bitcoin exchange website can freeze your account, block you until you get verified etc, same could happen in the centralized crypto world.

There will be other crypto-currency solutions, I didn't say that crypto-currency is dead, bitcoin is dead because technically it's heading in the wrong direction. Blockchain is the only true solution, avoid everything offchained and centralized.

I expect that the future of crypto-currency world would be in concurrent blockchains, find one that is cheapest, fastest, most secure etc, blockchain usability would dictate blockchain's crypto-currency value.

gentlemand

legendary

Activity: 2590

Merit: 3015

Welt Am Draht

Quote from: sjefdeklerk on December 22, 2017, 01:07:15 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on December 22, 2017, 12:56:21 PM

Let's see how one operates before condemning it, no? I personally don't have the slightest clue how it's all going to work. I'll wait to see one in real life before deciding.

A lot of details are known already and it's just worthless. LN is much more like traditional banking than cryptocoins. The revolution won't stop, Bitcoin will die but some other coin will survive. Decentralized money is here to stay, Lightning Network is not an option.

Ok. Have fun.

sjefdeklerk

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SODL

Quote from: gentlemand on December 22, 2017, 12:56:21 PM

Let's see how one operates before condemning it, no? I personally don't have the slightest clue how it's all going to work. I'll wait to see one in real life before deciding.

A lot of details are known already and it's just worthless. LN is much more like traditional banking than cryptocoins. The revolution won't stop, Bitcoin will die but some other coin will survive. Decentralized money is here to stay, Lightning Network is not an option.

Crypto Capital

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🔥3.5% a Month🔥Loans bit.ly/2JRWesw

Quote from: AmazonStuff on December 22, 2017, 12:28:19 PM

Bitcoin just doesn't deliver what he promises, cheap and fast money transactions. Transactions via BTC network are not cheap at all ($55 per transaction and raising), they are the most expensive transactions around, plus you can't even make a transaction because network is clogged, 282 000 unconfirmed transactions, we only have a promise of Lightning Network as a solution for this problem, solution that is not fully implemented, solution that is not Bitcoin, promise is not a solution, promise in software industry is called vaporware. In my honest opinion, after 5+ years of using BTC, currently it's worth $0 (ZERO).

I think there are way too many heavily invested stakeholders to let this coin truely drop to 0$. If such a crash were to begin to happen I believe the miners and other stakeholders would get their act together and develop updates to resolve the weaknesses of the coin. For example, do you really think coinbase would profit from the complete collapse of the crypto market? I think they would rather invest in infrastructure to make it last for the long haul.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: sjefdeklerk on December 22, 2017, 12:54:44 PM

Lightning network goes against the decentralized philosophy of cryptocoins, that's why it will fail. Another cryptocoin that's not as flawed at its core will take over, that makes much more sense than some centralized patching system like lightning network: https://medium.com/@curt0/lightning-network-will-likely-fail-due-to-several-possible-reasons-336c6c47f049

Let's see how one operates before condemning it, no? I personally don't have the slightest clue how it's all going to work. I'll wait to see one in real life before deciding.

sjefdeklerk

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Activity: 154

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SODL

Quote from: AK47- on December 22, 2017, 12:51:56 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on December 22, 2017, 12:38:19 PM

It's never promised cheap and fast. Something properly decentralised, though it may not really be that at present, can never hold a candle to a conventional centralised service. Others do promise cheap and fast but let's see them at full capacity for years before deciding whether that claim is true.

ETH failed in its current form at that when enough users arrived too. But it wasn't claiming that either.

Indeed!
Many those coins which promise fast transaction and less fees might fail when their adoption rate matches Bitcoin's. Lightening Network is in process of development and it might very well get implemented by next year. High fees and slow transactions are indeed the problems. But before that becomes a problem in growth of bitcoin, LN would be operational.

Lightning network goes against the decentralized philosophy of cryptocoins, that's why it will fail. Another cryptocoin that's not as flawed at its core will take over, that makes much more sense than some centralized patching system like lightning network: https://medium.com/@curt0/lightning-network-will-likely-fail-due-to-several-possible-reasons-336c6c47f049

AK47-

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Quote from: gentlemand on December 22, 2017, 12:38:19 PM

It's never promised cheap and fast. Something properly decentralised, though it may not really be that at present, can never hold a candle to a conventional centralised service. Others do promise cheap and fast but let's see them at full capacity for years before deciding whether that claim is true.

ETH failed in its current form at that when enough users arrived too. But it wasn't claiming that either.

Indeed!
Many those coins which promise fast transaction and less fees might fail when their adoption rate matches Bitcoin's. Lightening Network is in process of development and it might very well get implemented by next year. High fees and slow transactions are indeed the problems. But before that becomes a problem in growth of bitcoin, LN would be operational.

Wilhelm

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Quote from: sjefdeklerk on December 22, 2017, 12:47:14 PM

Quote from: Wilhelm on December 22, 2017, 12:35:10 PM

Bitcoin code can be changed. Fees can be changed in the code as far as I know (probably a soft fork).

The problem is that there are too many people entering bitcoin at once causing the current infrastructure to be overrun.
They will adapt and then we can go higher with Bitcoin.

LOL you make it sound like it's something easy to change it. Fact is that they've been working for years on 'lightning network', the supposed workaround for the problems and that it's still far from ready to be rolled out. And even when it's ready, there are a lot of arguments against it.

It's much more likely that bitcoin will just disappear and some other coin that's not flawed at its core will take over.

OK so because it's not easy we should just let it burn down and give up Cheesy

sjefdeklerk

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SODL

Quote from: Wilhelm on December 22, 2017, 12:35:10 PM

Bitcoin code can be changed. Fees can be changed in the code as far as I know (probably a soft fork).

The problem is that there are too many people entering bitcoin at once causing the current infrastructure to be overrun.
They will adapt and then we can go higher with Bitcoin.

LOL you make it sound like it's something easy to change it. Fact is that they've been working for years on 'lightning network', the supposed workaround for the problems and that it's still far from ready to be rolled out. And even when it's ready, there are a lot of arguments against it, like: https://medium.com/@curt0/lightning-network-will-likely-fail-due-to-several-possible-reasons-336c6c47f049

It's much more likely that bitcoin will just disappear and some other coin that's not flawed at its core will take over.

Topic: Bitcoin is the most expensive vaporware in the history of software industry (Read 184 times)