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Topic: Bitcoin is the undisputed global public ledger, but we need a private one too. - page 2. (Read 1693 times)

sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
if we have a private ledger, people doing illicit activities will simply go there, and nobody will know a thing of what they're doing...

governments can just carry on putting money that's not their in their pocket:

no honest government has anything to fear towards their citizens, and a government should be transparent. a private ledger won't do anyone any good, they'll keep on putting money under the carpet as they do now. for a private ledger we already have fiat...


What you said is true, and a completely private blockchain will be used for a lot of such activities, and tax evasion.

But if cryptocurrencies become widely accepted in the future, such a blockchain will 100% be developed for such purposes anyway. It's not something you can prevent.

The question is, are you going to cash in on the profit, or are you going to watch on the sidelines?
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
For me Bicoin has enough privacy. I do not think there is a very good reason to have even more for the general public...
 
 
Will you please post a copy of your bank statements for the past three months? 
 
I'm curious about a few things, and I'd like to take a look at them.

Sometimes exaggeration proves nothing.

"I like ice cream"

.... Okay, then eat 6 pounds of icecream every day for 6 months and tell me again you like it..!!!

Now, I have proven that you don't actually like icecream.....

Or not...
member
Activity: 71
Merit: 10
My God.... the things you said are at Billy Madison level, but I'm going to be civil and give them a proper response.


if we have a private ledger, people doing illicit activities will simply go there, and nobody will know a thing of what they're doing...  
 
  
So we shouldn't have new and better technology because then the criminals will use it?  Wat?  "Why should you need privacy if you have nothing to hide?" 
 
So we should do away with bitcoin too because the criminals are apparently using that.  As you can see, this makes no sense both logically and historically.  
  
governments can just carry on putting money that's not their in their pocket:

no honest government has anything to fear towards their citizens, and a government should be transparent. a private ledger won't do anyone any good, they'll keep on putting money under the carpet as they do now. for a private ledger we already have fiat...  
 
  
Unfortunately, sometimes governments need privacy too.  I know that might blow your mind, but global politics is a giant chess/poker game and there's simply no way to make everyone play open and honest.  Even if we were united under one world government, sub-factions within that government would all fight in the shadows to control it.  
  
Organizations will pit themselves against each other, and this is our natural tendency.  The games they play will consist of public moves and private moves, and both are necessary.  
  
If citizens don't want their government dealing in private currency, they can just pass a law forbidding them from doing so.  If this truly is a better way to run a government, then that government should quickly dominate all others because of openness and transparency.  

i seriously don't think it would be any good. it would be destroying what bitcoin has accomplished so far.
 
  
It would be a natural extension and evolution of what bitcoin has accomplished so far.  If bitcoin was anti-privacy it would record IP addresses with each transaction.  Unfortunately, the technology to have truly anonymous peer-to-peer transactions did not exist in 2008.  It only came into existence in 2014.  
  
Welcome to the future; you're living in it.

we should have better technology when this new tech improves the current one, not when it goes back a few years.
criminals may wish to use Bitcoin if they want it: knowing all their transactions are recorded in a public ledger and cannot be altered or tampered with in any way


exactly as you say: politics is a giant chess game. this is precisely what we want to avoid for many, many years and so far we could not, the biggest problem being money expenditure. politicians spend fortunes (sums of money that we don't know for sure how high they go) for campaigns and promises they will never deliver. if this is the government you want and consider this "a natural tendency" then feel free to support them, and keep using fiat currencies. this definitely not the government I want.

as for laws, citizens do not pass them, governments do. do you think any government will allow such a law? they aren't honest and open because it's easier just to steal and fade away



the natural extension to you seems to be banksters handling fiat. this introduces human error and we could speak about that for quite a long time, but you've already enumerated examples. people are two faced while handling fiat, avoid leaks of what doesn't matter to be leaked. Bitcoin is not anti privacy, it enforces privacy if you use it correctly. math might not be an opinion, that's for sure... but it is indeed a fact.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 504
For me Bicoin has enough privacy. I do not think there is a very good reason to have even more for the general public...
 
 
Will you please post a copy of your bank statements for the past three months? 
 
I'm curious about a few things, and I'd like to take a look at them.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
✪ NEXCHANGE | BTC, LTC, ETH & DOGE ✪
For me Bicoin has enough privacy. I do not think there is a very good reason to have even more for the general public...
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 504
We already have many private ledger. They are called FIAT and stored in Bank's DB. Private... No ?
 
  
They are absolutely not private.  And they are certainly not decentralized.  
  
Quote
Snoop Dogg stopped by Italian police and $211,000 cash seized
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/aug/01/snoop-dogg-stopped-italian-police-cash-seized  
 
 
Quote
 
This is utterly unacceptable.  If a man or organization holds money, no one should be able to deprive them of that money without a fair trial.  
  
And private?  Really?  Kidding me?  What do you think would happen if someone tried to transfer $400,000 to a foreign bank account?  A TON of flags would have gone up and both governments would want to know why money was being transferred.  
  
Fiat is about as NOT private as you can get.  
  

 
  
The significance of this cannot be overstated:  For the first time in all of human history, we have truly anonymous, decentralized, digital currency.  That has never happened before, and it only came into existence in 2014.  This is as big of a deal as the original bitcoin was, and possibly more.
legendary
Activity: 2226
Merit: 1052
We already have many private ledger. They are called FIAT and stored in Bank's DB. Private... No ?
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 504
My God.... the things you said are at Billy Madison level, but I'm going to be civil and give them a proper response.


if we have a private ledger, people doing illicit activities will simply go there, and nobody will know a thing of what they're doing...  
 
  
So we shouldn't have new and better technology because then the criminals will use it?  Wat?  "Why should you need privacy if you have nothing to hide?" 
 
So we should do away with bitcoin too because the criminals are apparently using that.  As you can see, this makes no sense both logically and historically.  
  
governments can just carry on putting money that's not their in their pocket:

no honest government has anything to fear towards their citizens, and a government should be transparent. a private ledger won't do anyone any good, they'll keep on putting money under the carpet as they do now. for a private ledger we already have fiat...  
 
  
Unfortunately, sometimes governments need privacy too.  I know that might blow your mind, but global politics is a giant chess/poker game and there's simply no way to make everyone play open and honest.  Even if we were united under one world government, sub-factions within that government would all fight in the shadows to control it.  
  
Organizations will pit themselves against each other, and this is our natural tendency.  The games they play will consist of public moves and private moves, and both are necessary.  
  
If citizens don't want their government dealing in private currency, they can just pass a law forbidding them from doing so.  If this truly is a better way to run a government, then that government should quickly dominate all others because of openness and transparency.  

i seriously don't think it would be any good. it would be destroying what bitcoin has accomplished so far.
 
  
It would be a natural extension and evolution of what bitcoin has accomplished so far.  If bitcoin was anti-privacy it would record IP addresses with each transaction.  Unfortunately, the technology to have truly anonymous peer-to-peer transactions did not exist in 2008.  It only came into existence in 2014.  
  
Welcome to the future; you're living in it.
legendary
Activity: 1320
Merit: 1007
The private ledger is called Monero.

Uses ring signatures. Out of all the different private alt coins, and there's many good ones, Monero is the most simplest and private.

member
Activity: 71
Merit: 10
if we have a private ledger, people doing illicit activities will simply go there, and nobody will know a thing of what they're doing...

governments can just carry on putting money that's not their in their pocket:

Not only is this an unacceptable level of transparency for criminals, but it is also unacceptable for business, government, and honestly any normal individual.

no honest government has anything to fear towards their citizens, and a government should be transparent. a private ledger won't do anyone any good, they'll keep on putting money under the carpet as they do now. for a private ledger we already have fiat...

i seriously don't think it would be any good. it would be destroying what bitcoin has accomplished so far.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 504
This is a topic that many may disagree on, but math is not an opinion.  
  
Pseudo-privacy is not privacy.  And it is not good enough.  
  
Can you imagine an internet where everyone could see everyone else's browsing history?  And if you *did* want a respite you needed to publicly login to some scrambling service, which would only invite further scrutiny?  But this is the state of bitcoin today.  
  
However don't get me wrong.  I believe that there will always be a need for a global public ledger, and I see little reason why it shouldn't be bitcoin in perpetuity (properly upgraded and guided as it goes forward).  I am still amazed that we have an absolute digital way to time stamp something such that no one can refute when a message occured, and that is thanks to bitcoin.  But when it comes to functioning as an actual currency, bitcoin is woefully inadequate:  
  
 
  



Not only is this an unacceptable level of transparency for criminals, but it is also unacceptable for business, government, and honestly any normal individual.  
  
Those of you who know me also know what truly anonymous cryptocurrency I think will become that undisputed private ledger, but I'm not here to shill. I'm here to debate the fact that our civilization cannot run off bitcoin alone: at least one (possibly more) blockchains are necessary provided they offer something radically different that bitcoin cannot.  
  
And true privacy is one of those essential things, which is why not only will the future shock and surprise banks, it's probably going to shock and surprise bitcoiners too.
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