Topic: Bitcoin is wasting electricity and are harmful to the environment.. Yea right!!! - page 3. (Read 942 times)

Exactly! People are always quick to make and analyze Bitcoin without looking around for other services that are the real consumers of electricity in the world. The mining of Bitcoin uses lesser electricity compared to companies that uses electricity in the production of their major products. Not to talk about credit card and master card companies, recycling companies and oil & gas companies uses a huge amount of electricity in their production compared to bitcoin mining. The electricity used for Bitcoin mining should be least of our concern in terms of electricity usage. These people saying bitcoin is wasting electricity are just haters of it.

I haven't seen any devastating effects of Bitcoin mining towards environment so far but yeah, in some instances, I agree to @franky1 that hobbyists are those who want BTC to go PoS in order to pack their bags (but I guess they won't even be able to do that as well) and earn on interest, but then the whole mining scheme of BTC would get into a dilemma as all those big wallets holding lots of BTC would need not to do anything but just lock it there alone and earn compounding interest over that. Those who mine with 1 or 2 or even 5 ASICs need to understand that if they try to use solar energy, it'd save a lot while consuming less artificial electricity compared to naturally generated electricity, not only would that save these guys a lot of electricity but this will promote more money making and less power consumption as well as least pollution.

In part it is right but not completely. I heard histories  how neighbors pleaded not to mine cryptocurrencies on villages because there was a negative effect for all who were also using electricity at that moment. It is checked out. There is no secret that any power electricity consumers reduce common voltage. Anybody can easily check it out with a voltmeter. Formerly minnig was much more cheaper than now and there is no a person, an organization to whom you can complain. Anyway I think  it is better to focus an own attention on investing.

Would that carbon foot print be the same when bitcoin becomes a mainstream currency?

Agreed, Google says it spends about 0.0003 kWh of energy on an average search query. The US data centers use more than 90 billion kilowatt-hour of electricity a year. Source : www.forbes.com and this requires roughly 34 giant (500-megawatt) coal-powered plants. Global data centers used about 416 terawatts <3% of the global power supply> in one year and this is 40% more than the entire United Kingdom.   

So if Bitcoin mining use 1% of the global supply and it supposedly equals the yearly use of Irelands power consumption, then we still have some way to go before we reach the 3% that data centers use. 

Hilariously i have 3 or 4 VISA/MC (still "valid") that could in theory not spend more than 1 satoshi (one is "Gold" lol), and now my entire country has to toss them, because Trump ordered American companies to leave so by the end of 2019 both companies will cease to operate here.

This obsolete method of payment should just go away. We are heavily dependent on debit cards, also operated by both American companies. Who knows what they will do at the end of the year, my guess is that they will bring the only non American debit/credit card company, Chinese UnionPay.

There is little and not enough banknotes, and they are too small to buy things anyway. Hyperinflation renders them useless in mere months. So you can add to the pollution the actual printing of bank notes.

Yes, but the purpose of this debate is to open people's eyes to the "hidden" pollution that are not talked about, when they target Bitcoin for their "wasteful" use of electricity and how harmful some aspects of other payment options are to the environment.
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Bitcoin mining and other bitcoin transactions need to.use electeicity is part of the growing improvement of the new tenhnology.
I think as long as bitcoin continue to exist and improve itsel how gain in the market isn't waste using electricity.
As many opinion not only bitcoin use a lot of electricity comsuption eve the multi national company use electricity. And i don't think bitcoin mining destroy the inviroment than the plastic manufacturing.

It's such a non argument. An example of that are the countless datacenters corporations such as Microsoft and Amazon operate. These consume way more electricity than Bitcoin, but nobody complains about them.

Nocoiners complain about Bitcoin's electricity consumption because they don't like it and think it has no value. If people think something has no value then it's by default a waste of electricity.

Back in the early internet days people were skeptical about the environmental impact of tech companies too, but now they somewhat depend on them, their electricity consumption is no longer an issue. 

This is a very short but accurate answer. I always say this to people who attack bitcoin saying it's bad for the environment. Electricity is being produced anyway and in most parts of the world there are no shortages.

The rivers won't stop flowing all of a sudden and water dams won't disappear because of some mining farms. They were there before Bitcoin and they will be there if miners go bankrupt. Stop mining and all this electricity will go to waste.

How many people drink pepsi,
how many people use bitcoin?

Now get a clue to which has more global usage / mass adoption / greater utility of purpose.  

Funny it is always the PoW guys claiming PoS has no costs,
maybe if you used one, you realize their are cost of coins & costs of nodes & developers & block explorers.
But having a $1000 monthly maintenance PoS network outperform $millions dollars monthly maintenance PoW network just blows your mind.
Which is why PoS network can have LOW FIXED transaction fees and your PoW network has to have Larger Variable Transaction Fees.

Now drink your pepsi before it gets warm.



FYI:
A PoS coin price would be a result of speculation and utility usage as a currency, while factoring in quantity of coins.
Bitcoin will never convert to PoS, it will just fade away from public use as only elites can afford it,  
while the rest of the world choose coins that are affordable and allow them to take part in governance of said network.
 
In bitcoin , you have a get rich scheme, pump & dump, with ever increasing energy waste driving up a manipulated market price.
Get rich scheme, then bitcoin is your huckleberry. (Like all merry go rounds, sooner or later the musics is over and that is the end.)

But if you actually wanting a virtual worldwide currency that is for the masses and sustainable and maintainable at reasonable levels,
then that can only be a Proof of Stake network.

 

pepsi has greater utility??
seriously... hang on a second i just need to laugh

do you even know where the pepsi liquid ends up just 6 hours after consumption....... in a toilet bowl
do you even know where the pepsi plastic bottle ends up just minutes after consumption....... in a trash can

nxt time you flush your toilet ask yourself, is the toilet a ledger that keeps the contents allowing it to be exchanged between people.

i really do understand your infuriation about not being able to mine as its costs are way above your abilities. but please dont try taking your personal circumstance to try make bitcoin become just as crappy and underlying valueless as altcoins

again. imagine if gold could be attained from anyones back garden using only a spoon and a coffee filter. the price of gold would not be $1k+ but instead less than a dollar. as no one would buy it for more than a dollar if they can get it virtually free themselves.
same goes for PoS. it has no cost. its only "value" is the speculation of utility

If I am not wrong, Bitcoin mining consumes less than 1% of the total electricity generation in the world. And is not like these mining farms are getting electricity for free. They are paying a rate, which is much higher than the cost of production. And there is no point in saying that Bitcoin mining is wasting electricity. Because in those countries where the largest farms are located, there is surplus electricity production.

And the argument that Bitcoin mining is harmful to the environment also holds no truth. The miners are ready to use environmentally clean forms of electricity, such as solar energy and nuclear energy. But it is up to the government to provide the power. The miners are compelled to use whatever electric supply the authorities provide.

Bitcoin makes additional coins per day , therefore it is inflationary.
It's rewards decrease over time, but it is still inflation until the rewards end completely.

Only a coin that burns more coins than it produces is truly deflationary.
(Such as a PoS coin that burns more in transaction fees than it generates in staking rewards.)

With PoS , you don't have to pool, it is optional, making decentralization possible.
(PoS is a cooperative network , while PoW is a combative winner take all network.)

With PoW, you have to pool to survive, making decentralization impossible.
(Due to ASICS and PoW Energy wasteful input costs.)

Pepsi has a greater utility than bitcoin, and is not using exponentially more energy per year.
I think that is the part you really like to ignore, bitcoin is exponentially wasting more energy yearly , Pepsi is not.

      Using of electricity will be good for other business like electrical plant  and not wasting but with regards to the hazards of environment , will make sense and it should be resolve as soon as possible to save our mother earth .

1. bitcoin has no inflation rate. its deflationary
2. PoS is not a cost. you lock coin up. get new coin cos of it. and then get to tak the original locked coin back later.
3. PoS is already failing the 'decentralised' debate as people are already syndicating/pooling their stakes into large lumps to share out rewards
4. and before you get started on any other proof of method that could be decentralised. sooner or later groups will find a way to game the system by multiplying the resources needed to gain the upper hand
5. bitcoin still uses less electric than pepsi does for all its refrigerators, so take your energy waste debate over to pepsi

Do you want a truly decentralized network.
All you do is make the inflation rate extremely low rewards,
this ends the free nonsense, as the coins purchased to stake do compete and are an expense.
This also presents the opportunity for Low fixed transaction fees , something a PoW network can never achieve once ASICS are involved.


Hate to break it to you, we are all on the earth and all pulling from it's limited natural resources.

There is no get rich without any cost nonsense in Proof of Stake,
Staking coins with too high an inflation rate price will collapse,
only extremely low inflation rate PoS coins are sustainable in the long run and their rates won't make you rich.
The only way you can get rich with them is as their utility grows so too will their price per coin.
(More useful as a real Currency than a bitcoin boom and bust scenario.)


FYI:
PoW network requires millions per month once ASICS take over to maintain their network.
PoS network requires less than $1000 per month to maintain it's network,
while exceeding the transactions capacity and an energy footprint that would not even be noticed.
That is as evolutionary improvement.
Staying on the PoW path is eventually going to run everyone using it off a cliff.

It's not really a strong point when they give electricity consumption on bitcoin as an argument. Here in modern days, everyone uses technology and electricity. It becomes a 'need' to people. And there are a lot more factors that consumes bigger electricity than bitcoin. I think every innovation to make people's life easier, has a negative impact on the environment. It harms the environment.

Everywhere you go, most of the things you do, has to do with consuming electricity. Even though you don't use bitcoin nor mine bitcoin, you still consume a lot of electricity. So to those people who use it as an argument, don't act as if you don't waste electricity.

must you forget a few things
1. bank transactions are only part of the overal flow of fiat. think about it.
people that use applepay(users own phone uses battery) which communicates to
applepays datacentre(uses electric) which then communicates its transaction to
visa/mastercards datacentre(uses electric) which then.. yep then communicates to
banks

2. a bitcoin transaction can contain many outputs (many destination/payments)

1. making bitcoin go to PoS is like making gold become available in everyons backyard as long as they have a spoon and a coffee filter.
imagine if gold could be mined for free.. the value of gold would drop. dont you realise yet the reason bitcoin/gold is so highly priced is because its expensive to attain.

2. mining farms do not even consume electric from the same 'consumer market' as residents. infact power grids make excess electric to cover occasional power demand spikes. and its this excess that usually goes to waste and unpaid, which mining farms do contracts for.
if you didnt realise power grids have multiple markets. residential, industrial and others. so please understand the bitcoin mining does not even touch the residential market.

3. i think all those crying about bitcoin mining costs are those lonely hobbyists that have just 1 or 2 asics and are not 'getting rich' purely because they have to pay thir parents/landlords electric bill. i think its these hobbyists that should find their own efficiencies rather than blaming the entire bitcoin mining community.
yes i get it, hobbyists want PoS so that they can 'get rich' without any costs.. we all understand it. but sorry bitcoin aint free


the fact that mist asic miners make profit if they are smart enough to be efficient. means they made returns on initial investment by using what you describe as the eventual bitcoin paperweight.. and then
yep and then.. they sell the bitcoin paperweight for less than its purchase price to the altcoin community o they can use it as altcoin miners. thus getting even more return on original investment

The fact that most ASICS lifespan is less than 2 years before they are just paperweights ,
is also an incredibly wasteful event.  

Ignoring flesh eating disease or bitcoin energy waste, in time they both consume the host.
 

FYI: https://www.inverse.com/article/57389-bitcoin-mining-s-incredible-energy-waste-has-been-captured-in-new-research
Banks .4 kilowatt per transaction
verses
Bitcoin 491 to 765 kilowatt per transaction
(Proof of Waste)