Topic: Bitcoin isn't green (Read 2513 times)
Mine with FPGA is green here.
Bitcoin mining fueled by solar and wind power. 
I don't follow this logic. If the market cap grows by 100, all other things being equal (very unlikely), the price per coin will multiply by 100. Only 2 or 3x people will start mining and everyone else will leave the 33-50x profit to miners?
Four things. One, the block reward halving will make mining more competitive. Two, there are only 8 million out of 21 million Bitcoins mined so far. Three, newer mining technologies will produce a 10-20x reduction in power usage per hash. And finally, eventually the price of Bitcoin in dollars won't be particularly relevant anyways, assuming things go well.
But it actually gets much better. Because the current Bitcoin market cap could grow by a factor of 100 with only, at most, a doubling or tripling of energy consumption. That would make it a 4.3 billion dollar market cap supported on less than $45,000 per day.
I don't follow this logic. If the market cap grows by 100, all other things being equal (very unlikely), the price per coin will multiply by 100. Only 2 or 3x people will start mining and everyone else will leave the 33-50x profit to miners?
You answered your own (implied) question. Bitcoin has a potential velocity rate several orders of magnitude faster than what is possible or common with fiat currencies today. Increases in velocity tends to suppress the market trade value of bitcoin.
But it actually gets much better. Because the current Bitcoin market cap could grow by a factor of 100 with only, at most, a doubling or tripling of energy consumption. That would make it a 4.3 billion dollar market cap supported on less than $45,000 per day.
I don't follow this logic. If the market cap grows by 100, all other things being equal (very unlikely), the price per coin will multiply by 100. Only 2 or 3x people will start mining and everyone else will leave the 33-50x profit to miners?
The reason why it costs so much to mine is because Bitcoin resembles commodity money, similar to gold mining. The value of commodity money, assuming competing suppliers, is equal to its marginal cost of production.
On the other hand, fiat money such as the US dollar and the euro, commands a value far higher than its costs of production, which raises the risk of severe mismanagement by their monopolistic suppliers.
The good thing is that in Bitcoin, it is likely that its marginal cost of production will mostly go to Research and Development to build more energy efficient and faster hash generators. So I believe Bitcoin occupies the green scale of commodity money, in comparison to gold, silver, etc.
On the other hand, fiat money such as the US dollar and the euro, commands a value far higher than its costs of production, which raises the risk of severe mismanagement by their monopolistic suppliers.
The good thing is that in Bitcoin, it is likely that its marginal cost of production will mostly go to Research and Development to build more energy efficient and faster hash generators. So I believe Bitcoin occupies the green scale of commodity money, in comparison to gold, silver, etc.
http://adventurecolorad.hubpages.com/hub/Dollar-Coins-Saving-The-Government-Money
Bitcoin has a current market cap of around $43 million. It costs about $15,000 per day to maintain.
An equivalent amount of US one-dollar bills would cost over $3,500 per day, in printing costs alone just to replace worn bills. That doesn't even count transport and handling costs and all the energy wasted by the banking system, which, believe me is substantial. In fact just the energy used by ATM machines would probably dwarf the Bitcoin network. The energy used by the corporate jets owned by the largest banks would probably dwarf the Bitcoin network.
But it actually gets much better. Because the current Bitcoin market cap could grow by a factor of 100 with only, at most, a doubling or tripling of energy consumption. That would make it a 4.3 billion dollar market cap supported on less than $45,000 per day. The equivalent in dollar bills, say ten-dollar bills on average, would cost $35,000 per day, just to print replacement bills.
And 4.3 billion dollars isn't even that much in terms of a currency. There are 9.5 billion one-dollar bills in circulation alone.
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The dollar bill has an average lifespan of 18-22 months. Some will last longer, but that means that every two years or so the U.S. Mint has to make a new supply of dollar bills. A dollar bill only costs 6 or 7 cents to make, but because it has to be replaced so frequently, it ultimately costs the government more money to use it over time.
Bitcoin has a current market cap of around $43 million. It costs about $15,000 per day to maintain.
An equivalent amount of US one-dollar bills would cost over $3,500 per day, in printing costs alone just to replace worn bills. That doesn't even count transport and handling costs and all the energy wasted by the banking system, which, believe me is substantial. In fact just the energy used by ATM machines would probably dwarf the Bitcoin network. The energy used by the corporate jets owned by the largest banks would probably dwarf the Bitcoin network.
But it actually gets much better. Because the current Bitcoin market cap could grow by a factor of 100 with only, at most, a doubling or tripling of energy consumption. That would make it a 4.3 billion dollar market cap supported on less than $45,000 per day. The equivalent in dollar bills, say ten-dollar bills on average, would cost $35,000 per day, just to print replacement bills.
And 4.3 billion dollars isn't even that much in terms of a currency. There are 9.5 billion one-dollar bills in circulation alone.
Once mining becomes unreasonable(er) it will be greener. Why? No electricity except for the transactions.
Let's hope we'll always have miners wasting electricity; we need them to protect our coins.
If you're worried that Bitcoin is a sin in your religion, why not just go to the Catholic Church Al Gore and buy an indulgence carbon offset?
I'm more of an environmentalist than almost anyone I know, but I feel the same way that the green movement is looking more and more like a religion. Anyways back to the regular discussion...
Well, once one of the founders of Greenpeace comes out and says that Greenies are screwed up for rejecting the science on (carbon free) nuclear energy, it's past the cult stage.
If you're worried that Bitcoin is a sin in your religion, why not just go to the Catholic Church Al Gore and buy an indulgence carbon offset?
I'm more of an environmentalist than almost anyone I know, but I feel the same way that the green movement is looking more and more like a religion. Anyways back to the regular discussion...
If you're worried that Bitcoin is a sin in your religion, why not just go to the Catholic Church Al Gore and buy an indulgence carbon offset?
What currencies are considered green now?
I always heard that green currency was the US Dollar. Maybe I got fooled, dunno.
Bitcoin needs mining. Mining costs a whole lot of electricity. Electricity still mostly comes from fossil fuels.
Ergo, bitcoin isn't green.
Any thoughts about this?
Ergo, bitcoin isn't green.
Any thoughts about this?
The US dollar needs paper from trees & cotton, and printing presses, and a mint, and employees, and security trucks to move it around, and computers to count it all, and banks to hide it in, and construction of banks, and more employees. All of these activities require electricity, and material resources, and human resources.
Ergo, the US dollar isn't green.
silly "go green" hippies
If only there was some other low-power activity we could be doing instead this would be great.
Slavery is pretty low-power. You should try that.
Ok...
Once mining becomes unreasonable(er) it will be greener. Why? No electricity except for the transactions.
Bitcoin mining probably uses like 0.000001% of the worlds energy. Who cares if its green or not?
I heard Chinese people are good at math and have low hourly wages. Just saying.
If only there was some other low-power activity we could be doing instead this would be great.
Slavery is pretty low-power. You should try that.
well, HUMANS and everything they do isn't green. The problem is that this energy must be used to decipher the SHA256 hashes, which is how the btc supply is naturally regulated. If only there was some other low-power activity we could be doing instead this would be great.
How about every time you plant a tree you register the tree and get 1 btc...or something. Someones would figure a way to scam the system, the value will decimate, and people will lose faith and stop using btc. And anyway who is gonna issue you that 1 btc? The central bank of btc? I think alot of people participate in btc because its decentralized and anonymous, and the environmentally unfriendly methods we have now give the currency the unique qualities that make people want to trade in some of there dollars for it.
How about every time you plant a tree you register the tree and get 1 btc...or something. Someones would figure a way to scam the system, the value will decimate, and people will lose faith and stop using btc. And anyway who is gonna issue you that 1 btc? The central bank of btc? I think alot of people participate in btc because its decentralized and anonymous, and the environmentally unfriendly methods we have now give the currency the unique qualities that make people want to trade in some of there dollars for it.
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