Topic: Bitcoin Japanese exchanges increasing - page 3. (Read 3485 times)

Quote from: just_Alice on May 06, 2017, 03:02:44 PM

That would make sense if Bitcoin price surged to a million dollars per coin

Since Bitcoin is likely to be even more deflationary than any other currency out there. What fiat currency do you know that has grown in value a few times within a year? There is no such currency since the growth of that scale would be devastating to any economy. In this manner, the whole effort may be aimed at substituting the Japanese Yen with Bitcoin in the savings of people so that greater amounts of local currency entered circulation (which would be good for inflation)

But why? In my opinion it doesn't matter how much 1 bitcoin costs. What does matter is that people take their money out of a closet and start buying it. That's what's good for the economy.

I'm a biology student, not an economist, so please explain if I get something wrong.

You get everything right, in general

What you don't get is that to make this policy of "people taking their money out of a closet and buying Bitcoin with it" even remotely successful, literally millions of people will have to buy bitcoins, and that would produce an exponential demand with Bitcoin prices hitting astronomical figures. In other words, there are not so many bitcoins as there should be people wanting to buy them if the Japanese government were really going to implement something along these lines and hoped to achieve a noticeable result at that

Thanks for the explanation. Indeed you've noticed what I can't understand so far. Even now I think that a limited number of bitcoins can't be a problem because that only would lead to the increasing of bitcoin price. Why is it bad for the economy if the price of one satoshi was $1? But I have a feeling that I can't get it because I'm not aware of some mysteries of the economy

Even self-proclaimed gurus of economics here can't grasp that

But the answer is pretty simple though. If we assume that fiat dies and Bitcoin takes over, the constant appreciation would be devastating to the economy. I've even created a thread where I explained everything in pesky details, and no guru or otherwise ventured to challenge that explanation. In short, the reason is that the profit margins of producers (if we calculate them in bitcoins) change non-linearly in respect to change in Bitcoin appreciation rates. In other words, they would decline faster than Bitcoin might appreciate. To add injury to insult, they may and will in fact turn negative at some level of appreciation, i.e. profits will become losses (when the proceeds stop covering expenses), and thus the producers will have to shut down their businesses altogether and fire their stuff. How can that be good? On the other hand, if Bitcoin continues to remain outside the economy, then its price will be mostly irrelevant

pixie85

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Why is it bad for the economy if the price of one satoshi was $1?

It isn't. You can print dollars and there are billions in circulation, while there's just a few million Bitcoins. Yes, just a few, because a large part of the ones mined till this day has been lost, or is owned by some mysterious perma holders like Satoshi. Also Dollars are used by a relatively small number of people. If you travel to Europe, you won't be able to buy anything with dollars, although the currency is recognized in Europe and you can exchange them on every corner, no store will take it.
This means that a 1$=1s is possible if Bitcoin becomes a secondary currency, acceptable everywhere as a form of electronic payment system.

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Quote from: just_Alice on May 06, 2017, 03:02:44 PM

Thanks for the explanation. Indeed you've noticed what I can't understand so far. Even now I think that a limited number of bitcoins can't be a problem because that only would lead to the increasing of bitcoin price. Why is it bad for the economy if the price of one satoshi was $1? But I have a feeling that I can't get it because I'm not aware of some mysteries of the economy.

Bitcoin price is bound to get only higher. Bitcoin production/mining is slowing down, demand and adoption will increase, purchasing power will be higher as time progresses.
But the situation when $1 = 1 Satoshi is not possible in the foreseeable future. It will be possible only in case when:

- US dollar will crash and hyperinflation will destroy purchasing power of USD
- distant future, when inflation of USD combined with increased price of BTC will do the job

just_Alice

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Quote from: deisik on May 05, 2017, 01:38:00 PM

Quote from: just_Alice on May 05, 2017, 11:56:18 AM

Quote from: just_Alice on May 05, 2017, 11:56:18 AM

That would make sense if Bitcoin price surged to a million dollars per coin

Since Bitcoin is likely to be even more deflationary than any other currency out there. What fiat currency do you know that has grown in value a few times within a year? There is no such currency since the growth of that scale would be devastating to any economy. In this manner, the whole effort may be aimed at substituting the Japanese Yen with Bitcoin in the savings of people so that greater amounts of local currency entered circulation (which would be good for inflation)

But why? In my opinion it doesn't matter how much 1 bitcoin costs. What does matter is that people take their money out of a closet and start buying it. That's what's good for the economy.

I'm a biology student, not an economist, so please explain if I get something wrong.

You get everything right, in general

What you don't get is that to make this policy of "people taking their money out of a closet and buying Bitcoin with it" even remotely successful, literally millions of people will have to buy bitcoins, and that would produce an exponential demand with Bitcoin prices hitting astronomical figures. In other words, there are not so many bitcoins as there should be people wanting to buy them if the Japanese government were really going to implement something along these lines and hoped to achieve a noticeable result at that

Thanks for the explanation. Indeed you've noticed what I can't understand so far. Even now I think that a limited number of bitcoins can't be a problem because that only would lead to the increasing of bitcoin price. Why is it bad for the economy if the price of one satoshi was $1? But I have a feeling that I can't get it because I'm not aware of some mysteries of the economy.

deisik

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That would make sense if Bitcoin price surged to a million dollars per coin

Since Bitcoin is likely to be even more deflationary than any other currency out there. What fiat currency do you know that has grown in value a few times within a year? There is no such currency since the growth of that scale would be devastating to any economy. In this manner, the whole effort may be aimed at substituting the Japanese Yen with Bitcoin in the savings of people so that greater amounts of local currency entered circulation (which would be good for inflation)

But why? In my opinion it doesn't matter how much 1 bitcoin costs. What does matter is that people take their money out of a closet and start buying it. That's what's good for the economy.

I'm a biology student, not an economist, so please explain if I get something wrong.

You get everything right, in general

What you don't get is that to make this policy of "people taking their money out of a closet and buying Bitcoin with it" even remotely successful, literally millions of people will have to buy bitcoins, and that would produce an exponential demand with Bitcoin prices hitting astronomical figures. In other words, there are not so many bitcoins as there should be people wanting to buy them if the Japanese government were really going to implement something along these lines and hoped to achieve a noticeable result at that

just_Alice

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Quote from: just_Alice on May 04, 2017, 04:55:31 AM

Quote from: just_Alice on May 03, 2017, 11:57:00 AM

Quote from: Maheshkumar_Hrangkhawl on May 03, 2017, 08:21:58 AM

This is just the beginning. The other countries are going to take notice of what the Japanese government did. I am sure that China and Russia are carefully studying the implications. And trust me, if China recognizes BTC, it is going to be huge

It would be interesting to know what are the real reasons for the Japanese government to be so loyal toward Bitcoin. Regarding other countries, Russia is highly unlikely to follow Japan's lead, at least, not to the degree of accepting Bitcoin as a rival currency. Further, I warn people not to be too enthusiastic about governments finally "noticing" Bitcoin. It is not given that the "acceptance" that these governments may be looking and going for will make many Bitcoin users happy

It is not even clear as of yet what the Japanese government is actually up to

Yes, we can't know what the Japanese government is up to, but regardless, they are already doing a good thing for bitcoin. I think the rise we are witnessing nowadays is in a good measure due to the fact that the Japanese government has recently started treating bitcoin legally as a form of payment

We can't say that for certain

It may be a Trojan horse decision (don't know how to call such actions properly). I don't necessarily mean evil or otherwise rogue intentions but I'm still curious what has been driving them to do that. After all, accepting Bitcoin as legal tender (provided it is really so) means tougher competition for the Japanese Yen. On the other hand, the government of Japan was fighting with deflation for literally decades, so they may be wanting exactly that, i.e. inflation for the Yen?

They say some inflation is healthy for the economy, they say that deflation is what should be avoided at all costs because it encourages people to not spend their money, so I think you have a point here. But if they think Bitcoin will help to save their economy and that's why they encourage using it, I think that's a good thing.

That would make sense if Bitcoin price surged to a million dollars per coin

Since Bitcoin is likely to be even more deflationary than any other currency out there. What fiat currency do you know that has grown in value a few times within a year? There is no such currency since the growth of that scale would be devastating to any economy. In this manner, the whole effort may be aimed at substituting the Japanese Yen with Bitcoin in the savings of people so that greater amounts of local currency entered circulation (which would be good for inflation)

But why? In my opinion it doesn't matter how much 1 bitcoin costs. What does matter is that people take their money out of a closet and start buying it. That's what's good for the economy.

I'm a biology student, not an economist, so please explain if I get something wrong.

voltesbit777

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Quote from: mynhpark1 on May 03, 2017, 04:28:46 AM

The Japanese Bitcoin exchange market and industry have matured significantly over the past few months, to the point in which the country’s largest financial institutions and corporations have started to launch digital currency exchanges and trading platforms.

In fact, one month after Japan started recognizing Bitcoin as a method of payment, more than ten new companies in the country are reportedly applying to become Bitcoin exchanges. Meanwhile, institutional investors are increasingly gaining interest in the digital currency.

How many Japanese Bitcoin exchanges do you think will launch this year?

This is really such a great news to all bitcoin community in the entire world actually. Imagine different 10 biggest company all over the world are now decided to adopt the system of bitcoin, well that is not astonishing because bitcoin was really has a brighter future. And now it is happening already little by little.

deisik

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Quote from: just_Alice on May 04, 2017, 04:55:31 AM

Quote from: just_Alice on May 03, 2017, 11:57:00 AM

Quote from: Maheshkumar_Hrangkhawl on May 03, 2017, 08:21:58 AM

This is just the beginning. The other countries are going to take notice of what the Japanese government did. I am sure that China and Russia are carefully studying the implications. And trust me, if China recognizes BTC, it is going to be huge

It would be interesting to know what are the real reasons for the Japanese government to be so loyal toward Bitcoin. Regarding other countries, Russia is highly unlikely to follow Japan's lead, at least, not to the degree of accepting Bitcoin as a rival currency. Further, I warn people not to be too enthusiastic about governments finally "noticing" Bitcoin. It is not given that the "acceptance" that these governments may be looking and going for will make many Bitcoin users happy

It is not even clear as of yet what the Japanese government is actually up to

Yes, we can't know what the Japanese government is up to, but regardless, they are already doing a good thing for bitcoin. I think the rise we are witnessing nowadays is in a good measure due to the fact that the Japanese government has recently started treating bitcoin legally as a form of payment

We can't say that for certain

It may be a Trojan horse decision (don't know how to call such actions properly). I don't necessarily mean evil or otherwise rogue intentions but I'm still curious what has been driving them to do that. After all, accepting Bitcoin as legal tender (provided it is really so) means tougher competition for the Japanese Yen. On the other hand, the government of Japan was fighting with deflation for literally decades, so they may be wanting exactly that, i.e. inflation for the Yen?

They say some inflation is healthy for the economy, they say that deflation is what should be avoided at all costs because it encourages people to not spend their money, so I think you have a point here. But if they think Bitcoin will help to save their economy and that's why they encourage using it, I think that's a good thing.

That would make sense if Bitcoin price surged to a million dollars per coin

Since Bitcoin is likely to be even more deflationary than any other currency out there. What fiat currency do you know that has grown in value a few times within a year? There is no such currency since the growth of that scale would be devastating to any economy. In this manner, the whole effort may be aimed at substituting the Japanese Yen with Bitcoin in the savings of people so that greater amounts of local currency entered circulation (which would be good for inflation)

Mometaskers

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Quote from: just_Alice on May 04, 2017, 04:55:31 AM

Quote from: just_Alice on May 03, 2017, 11:57:00 AM

Quote from: Maheshkumar_Hrangkhawl on May 03, 2017, 08:21:58 AM

This is just the beginning. The other countries are going to take notice of what the Japanese government did. I am sure that China and Russia are carefully studying the implications. And trust me, if China recognizes BTC, it is going to be huge

It would be interesting to know what are the real reasons for the Japanese government to be so loyal toward Bitcoin. Regarding other countries, Russia is highly unlikely to follow Japan's lead, at least, not to the degree of accepting Bitcoin as a rival currency. Further, I warn people not to be too enthusiastic about governments finally "noticing" Bitcoin. It is not given that the "acceptance" that these governments may be looking and going for will make many Bitcoin users happy

It is not even clear as of yet what the Japanese government is actually up to

Yes, we can't know what the Japanese government is up to, but regardless, they are already doing a good thing for bitcoin. I think the rise we are witnessing nowadays is in a good measure due to the fact that the Japanese government has recently started treating bitcoin legally as a form of payment

We can't say that for certain

It may be a Trojan horse decision (don't know how to call such actions properly). I don't necessarily mean evil or otherwise rogue intentions but I'm still curious what has been driving them to do that. After all, accepting Bitcoin as legal tender (provided it is really so) means tougher competition for the Japanese Yen. On the other hand, the government of Japan was fighting with deflation for literally decades, so they may be wanting exactly that, i.e. inflation for the Yen?

They say some inflation is healthy for the economy, they say that deflation is what should be avoided at all costs because it encourages people to not spend their money, so I think you have a point here. But if they think Bitcoin will help to save their economy and that's why they encourage using it, I think that's a good thing.

I agree with Deisik, they wouldn't jump the bandwagon if they wouldn't have any benefit from it. I still can't imagine how it could be eventually harmful to bitcoin though. Maybe they really just want to jump start their slowing economy. Bitcoin would encourage people to pull out some savings out to buy it for the profit. When they do cash out, that money is going back to the economy. Even if they just hold, the gov't can earn from the exchanges.

Quote from: eternalgloom on May 04, 2017, 10:55:08 AM

Quote from: blade87 on May 04, 2017, 10:35:18 AM

Here are some 2015 GDPs via Google:

Russia: 1.3 trillion
India: 2.0 trillion
Japan: 4.1 trillion
China: 10.9 trillion
USA: 18.0 trillion

People have always focused on China, and Russia to some extent. But Japan alone is already quite significant. And India will likely follow this month. Could this start as a trickle, and then snowball ? Could this be the beginning of the time that all of us have been waiting for?

Do you have a source for mentioning that India would likely soon be following?
I would've thought that they could very well be implementing regulations against Bitcoin as opposed to for it...

Yeah, they seem to be quite negative towards it and might even see it as an alternative method for people trying to hoard money (they demonetized their 2 largest bills).

blade87

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https://news.bitcoin.com/indias-government-may-be-preparing-to-legalize-and-regulate-bitcoin/

Maybe likely was the wrong word to use. Other "sources" I've read made it sound that way. But we should find out soon one way or the other.

eternalgloom

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Quote from: blade87 on May 04, 2017, 10:35:18 AM

Here are some 2015 GDPs via Google:

Russia: 1.3 trillion
India: 2.0 trillion
Japan: 4.1 trillion
China: 10.9 trillion
USA: 18.0 trillion

People have always focused on China, and Russia to some extent. But Japan alone is already quite significant. And India will likely follow this month. Could this start as a trickle, and then snowball ? Could this be the beginning of the time that all of us have been waiting for?

Do you have a source for mentioning that India would likely soon be following?
I would've thought that they could very well be implementing regulations against Bitcoin as opposed to for it...

blade87

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Activity: 644

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Here are some 2015 GDPs via Google:

Russia: 1.3 trillion
India: 2.0 trillion
Japan: 4.1 trillion
China: 10.9 trillion
USA: 18.0 trillion

People have always focused on China, and Russia to some extent. But Japan alone is already quite significant. And India will likely follow this month. Could this start as a trickle, and then snowball ? Could this be the beginning of the time that all of us have been waiting for?

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: mynhpark1 on May 03, 2017, 04:28:46 AM

The Japanese Bitcoin exchange market and industry have matured significantly over the past few months, to the point in which the country’s largest financial institutions and corporations have started to launch digital currency exchanges and trading platforms.

In fact, one month after Japan started recognizing Bitcoin as a method of payment, more than ten new companies in the country are reportedly applying to become Bitcoin exchanges. Meanwhile, institutional investors are increasingly gaining interest in the digital currency.

How many Japanese Bitcoin exchanges do you think will launch this year?

This is a good news about bitcoins adoption and for sure price will surely main affected here which means it will surely rise up.Its not surprising that adoption on that place comes very high because thats the origin on where satoshi lived(correct me if im wrong) they do accept its invention and now they are now on the trend.Talking about how many possible exchanges will come out,no one really knows after all.

bartolo

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The news coming from Japan are very good for Bitcoin. Japan is a huge market, a huge number of users where there is a very close relationship with technology. It´s possible that the rise in the price of bitcoin we are experiencing is closely related to what is happening in Japan. It will be interesting to see if other countries follow their example, in particular will have to see the steps that occur in China, neighbor and rival.

just_Alice

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Quote from: just_Alice on May 03, 2017, 11:57:00 AM