Bitcoin Lightning Network on Mainnet..now LIVE! (Really? See Article)

HeRetiK

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Quote from: Pursuer on February 08, 2018, 06:54:59 AM

Quote from: KwizatzHaderach on January 30, 2018, 11:34:11 PM

I think people are jumping the gun already and using Lightning Network. Arduous testing should still be conducted before it can be adopted widely.

believe it or not a lot of people are interested in the technology itself and want to get involved with it as soon as possible so they start running a Lightning node and have fun with it. you don't have to do it with a very large amount of bitcoin. you can put a smaller amount in and test things. and you may even earn some satoshis as the fees!

Also arduous testing is exactly what those glorious bastards are doing. It's voluntary testing like this that is needed to ensure that Lightning Network gets polished quickly and reaches a stable state sooner rather than later.

Pursuer

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Quote from: KwizatzHaderach on January 30, 2018, 11:34:11 PM

I think people are jumping the gun already and using Lightning Network. Arduous testing should still be conducted before it can be adopted widely.

believe it or not a lot of people are interested in the technology itself and want to get involved with it as soon as possible so they start running a Lightning node and have fun with it. you don't have to do it with a very large amount of bitcoin. you can put a smaller amount in and test things. and you may even earn some satoshis as the fees!

elizavetausova0112

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Hello! Share who earns on bitcoins? can someone did not manage to earn? Waiting for an opinion ...

KwizatzHaderach

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I think people are jumping the gun already and using Lightning Network. Arduous testing should still be conducted before it can be adopted widely.

pooya87

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Quote from: jtipt on January 30, 2018, 10:12:13 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on January 30, 2018, 04:02:29 PM

Quote from: Searing on January 30, 2018, 03:49:39 PM

Well and good...what is your view on how 'gradual' will this be? I myself don't know enough....I HOPE you are correct and such a gradual rollout will gain steam and credibility

but am clueless on how/what/when they plan this (or hope this) protocol will evolve

Ain't got a clue. And there is no 'they'. It's hundreds or thousands of people from all over the world all beavering away.

I presume what most people will regard as the 'real' launch will be the big exchanges offering it. As stated elsewhere I don't think they will.

I don't think exchanges offering LN transfers will happen anytime soon, also it isn't some I would expect LN to be used for. Main purpose of LN is for micro transactions, so essentially as a payment processor where bitcoin is accepted as payment would be the first places where I would like to see LN.
And anyways I don't think exchanges will allow trading of BTC which aren't transacted on the chain.

i wouldn't call "micro transactions" as its main purpose. i think the speed is the main purpose instead, even the name is "Lightning" Network which is hinting at the speed and also scaling which means adding capability of handling virtually limitless number of transactions per second.

jtipt

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Quote from: gentlemand on January 30, 2018, 04:02:29 PM

Quote from: Searing on January 30, 2018, 03:49:39 PM

Well and good...what is your view on how 'gradual' will this be? I myself don't know enough....I HOPE you are correct and such a gradual rollout will gain steam and credibility

but am clueless on how/what/when they plan this (or hope this) protocol will evolve

Ain't got a clue. And there is no 'they'. It's hundreds or thousands of people from all over the world all beavering away.

I presume what most people will regard as the 'real' launch will be the big exchanges offering it. As stated elsewhere I don't think they will.

I don't think exchanges offering LN transfers will happen anytime soon, also it isn't some I would expect LN to be used for. Main purpose of LN is for micro transactions, so essentially as a payment processor where bitcoin is accepted as payment would be the first places where I would like to see LN.
And anyways I don't think exchanges will allow trading of BTC which aren't transacted on the chain.

Searing

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Clueless!

Quote from: gentlemand on January 30, 2018, 04:02:29 PM

Quote from: Searing on January 30, 2018, 03:49:39 PM

Well and good...what is your view on how 'gradual' will this be? I myself don't know enough....I HOPE you are correct and such a gradual rollout will gain steam and credibility

but am clueless on how/what/when they plan this (or hope this) protocol will evolve

Ain't got a clue. And there is no 'they'. It's hundreds or thousands of people from all over the world all beavering away.

I presume what most people will regard as the 'real' launch will be the big exchanges offering it. As stated elsewhere I don't think they will.

ok...point..exchanges start to offer/pump lighting...I guess I can see that...as a timeline or sorts gradual or not....

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Quote from: Searing on January 30, 2018, 03:49:39 PM

Well and good...what is your view on how 'gradual' will this be? I myself don't know enough....I HOPE you are correct and such a gradual rollout will gain steam and credibility

but am clueless on how/what/when they plan this (or hope this) protocol will evolve

Ain't got a clue. And there is no 'they'. It's hundreds or thousands of people from all over the world all beavering away.

I presume what most people will regard as the 'real' launch will be the big exchanges offering it. As stated elsewhere I don't think they will.

Washball

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Lightning Network is not live yet, there's a test phase on the testnet. People are already using LN for small transactions, but devs complain it's distracting their attention and only slows down the development. It will take a while before LN goes live.

Searing

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Clueless!

Quote from: gentlemand on January 30, 2018, 03:33:32 PM

Quote from: Searing on January 30, 2018, 03:30:43 PM

Does anyone have a link to a 'timeline' on when they expect this aspect to go LIVE in a real sense and not a 'test' sense? and/or a link to such speculations?

knowing Bitcoin Core...they could test this till August 2018..they have the coding speed of a Snail.....

anyway, anybody, anything?

You've already been told. There will be no such thing. It's not being developed by Core. It's a layer on top and there are multiple versions, all working on being interoperable. It'll be a gradual roll out spread between all of the services in the system.

Well and good...what is your view on how 'gradual' will this be? I myself don't know enough....I HOPE you are correct and such a gradual rollout will gain steam and credibility

but am clueless on how/what/when they plan this (or hope this) protocol will evolve

your thoughts, please

brad

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Quote from: Searing on January 30, 2018, 03:30:43 PM

Does anyone have a link to a 'timeline' on when they expect this aspect to go LIVE in a real sense and not a 'test' sense? and/or a link to such speculations?

knowing Bitcoin Core...they could test this till August 2018..they have the coding speed of a Snail.....

anyway, anybody, anything?

You've already been told. There will be no such thing. It's not being developed by Core. It's a layer on top and there are multiple versions, all working on being interoperable. It'll be a gradual roll out spread between all of the services in the system.

Searing

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Clueless!

Quote from: pooya87 on January 29, 2018, 02:07:51 AM

Quote from: bitart on January 28, 2018, 05:34:33 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on January 28, 2018, 12:56:42 AM

it has been active for a while: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.28589053

Quote from: Searing on January 28, 2018, 12:09:45 AM

seems sketchy as the only article I can find...do they mean just live on 'main net' to test

or is it really ready for prime time?

well, LN applications have been ready a while ago and LN network on mainnet also started up a while ago. but the thing is, these applications are still in beta mode and need a lot of testing and bugs only show themselves if the code is reviewed and the application is used by more people. but at the same time you should be careful to not put a lot of bitcoin in it because you may easily lose it to a bug.

there currently are nearly 300 LN nodes and the network has a capacity of 3.6BTC in total.

It's amazing for me how the LN nodes are growin on the mainnet, a few weeks before it was just really a few and now there are nearly 300 nodes. And they are only testing, because there's just a few real merchants who accept the payments via the LN network yet, so most of the guys who run the LN hubs are only testing the micro payments via sending the coins to each other? The lucky thing is that despite of they're testing on the main net, the fee of the channel opening and closing transactions (they have to go thru the normal blockchain) are really low now, compared to the end of last year.
There's a thread where someone have posted a link where the LN network is visualized, but I was not brave enough to click the link, so I don't know if it's safe and really works or not :
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/interactive-3d-force-graph-of-the-mainnet-lightning-network-2838979

i haven't been able to find any lists of merchants already implementing LN but there are some news here and there.
there is blockstream obviously: https://blockstream.com/2018/01/16/lightning-charge.html
there is a VPN provider: https://news.bitcoin.com/vpn-provider-now-accepts-lightning-network-payments/
i've seen charging mobile using LN from one of the LN devs.

but yeah, it is mainly "micro payment" and also for testing since it is still new.

as for the link, just click on the link i posted above. it has a screenshot that doesn't require you to exit bitcointalk...

Does anyone have a link to a 'timeline' on when they expect this aspect to go LIVE in a real sense and not a 'test' sense? and/or a link to such speculations?

knowing Bitcoin Core...they could test this till August 2018..they have the coding speed of a Snail.....

anyway, anybody, anything?

pooya87

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Quote from: bitart on January 28, 2018, 05:34:33 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on January 28, 2018, 12:56:42 AM

it has been active for a while: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.28589053

Quote from: Searing on January 28, 2018, 12:09:45 AM

seems sketchy as the only article I can find...do they mean just live on 'main net' to test

or is it really ready for prime time?

well, LN applications have been ready a while ago and LN network on mainnet also started up a while ago. but the thing is, these applications are still in beta mode and need a lot of testing and bugs only show themselves if the code is reviewed and the application is used by more people. but at the same time you should be careful to not put a lot of bitcoin in it because you may easily lose it to a bug.

there currently are nearly 300 LN nodes and the network has a capacity of 3.6BTC in total.

It's amazing for me how the LN nodes are growin on the mainnet, a few weeks before it was just really a few and now there are nearly 300 nodes. And they are only testing, because there's just a few real merchants who accept the payments via the LN network yet, so most of the guys who run the LN hubs are only testing the micro payments via sending the coins to each other? The lucky thing is that despite of they're testing on the main net, the fee of the channel opening and closing transactions (they have to go thru the normal blockchain) are really low now, compared to the end of last year.
There's a thread where someone have posted a link where the LN network is visualized, but I was not brave enough to click the link, so I don't know if it's safe and really works or not :
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/interactive-3d-force-graph-of-the-mainnet-lightning-network-2838979

i haven't been able to find any lists of merchants already implementing LN but there are some news here and there.
there is blockstream obviously: https://blockstream.com/2018/01/16/lightning-charge.html
there is a VPN provider: https://news.bitcoin.com/vpn-provider-now-accepts-lightning-network-payments/
i've seen charging mobile using LN from one of the LN devs.

but yeah, it is mainly "micro payment" and also for testing since it is still new.

as for the link, just click on the link i posted above. it has a screenshot that doesn't require you to exit bitcointalk...

jtipt

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Quote from: Searing on January 28, 2018, 12:09:45 AM

I read just now, that the 'lightning network' for BTC is now LIVE...

here is the link to the article

https://www.finder.com.au/bitcoin-price-weekly-analysis-2018-01-28

AFAIK there currently about 300 LN nodes with 800 active channels and a total of 3.7 BTC, active on mainnet, it's no where near as safe and people are just testing it. Some people have made succesful transcation with LN on blockstream, torguard and bitrefill.
You can explore all the nodes and channels here https://lnmainnet.gaben.win

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Quote from: PandoraToken on January 28, 2018, 07:40:12 PM

It looks like Lightning Network is active, but the quantity of people using it is increasing slowly. In fact, fees have gone down lately.

I share your opinion here. I have observed that fees have gone down lately which I thought was weird, but now it starts to make sense. It does seem like the lightning network is indeed active, but it seems like a beta version currently since they tell us to be careful and be aware of the risks involved. Personally, I am happy that it is active and people have begun to test it and I am expecting all users to enjoy the lightning network benefits within a few months.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: gentlemand on January 28, 2018, 07:07:34 PM

Quote from: HeRetiK on January 28, 2018, 06:57:49 PM

Exchanges don't need to keep track of the whole blockchain and each Lightning transaction though. All they do and should care about is coins and fiat entering and leaving their system. I don't think KYC / AML regulations require anything beyond that. Otherwise you wouldn't see the likes of XMR and ZEC on Kraken, for example. But maybe I misunderstood your concern.

Well, this is from someone who knows rather more than me - http://bitcoinist.com/coinbase-exchanges-wont-run-lightning-antonopoulos/

KYC will only get more anal as the years go by and places like Bitpay and Coinbase seem to actively want to scupper Bitcoin's chances at the moment.

More anal? Hahaha. What do you mean by that? "Very neat and organized", or the dirty meaning? I do not believe it is the right word to use.

But if KRYC/AML is becoming a problem for the whole community, then we should start to use Bisq, https://bisq.network/.

P2P exchanges will be the next big thing.

HeRetiK

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Quote from: gentlemand on January 28, 2018, 07:07:34 PM

Quote from: HeRetiK on January 28, 2018, 06:57:49 PM

Exchanges don't need to keep track of the whole blockchain and each Lightning transaction though. All they do and should care about is coins and fiat entering and leaving their system. I don't think KYC / AML regulations require anything beyond that. Otherwise you wouldn't see the likes of XMR and ZEC on Kraken, for example. But maybe I misunderstood your concern.

Well, this is from someone who knows rather more than me - http://bitcoinist.com/coinbase-exchanges-wont-run-lightning-antonopoulos/

KYC will only get more anal as the years go by and places like Bitpay and Coinbase seem to actively want to scupper Bitcoin's chances at the moment.

I guess I need to listen to the full podcast, but based on the article the concerns still don't make quite sense to me:

Quote

They have a fully KYC/AML-ed customer on one end of their connection, but if they receive a payment that’s going to that customer over the Lightning Network, they have no idea whether that customer’s the final destination… If they receive one coming in from that customer, they have no idea if that customer’s the origin… Which means their KYC just fell apart – completely fell apart.

I don't understand that argument. LN nodes don't know the origin and destination of transactions that cross them, so far so good. But exchanges still know that they are the destination of a LN transaction -- and who send it. Otherwise how would anyone know that they received a Lightning transaction from the correct counterparty? Unless the argument is that running a LN node makes you a money transmitter according to US law, but that would open a whole different can of worms with exchanges being the least of our problems.

PandoraToken

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It looks like Lightning Network is active, but the quantity of people using it is increasing slowly. In fact, fees have gone down lately.

gentlemand

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Quote from: HeRetiK on January 28, 2018, 06:57:49 PM

Exchanges don't need to keep track of the whole blockchain and each Lightning transaction though. All they do and should care about is coins and fiat entering and leaving their system. I don't think KYC / AML regulations require anything beyond that. Otherwise you wouldn't see the likes of XMR and ZEC on Kraken, for example. But maybe I misunderstood your concern.

Well, this is from someone who knows rather more than me - http://bitcoinist.com/coinbase-exchanges-wont-run-lightning-antonopoulos/

KYC will only get more anal as the years go by and places like Bitpay and Coinbase seem to actively want to scupper Bitcoin's chances at the moment.

Anti-Cen

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High fees = low BTC price

I think it's live on mainnet and here is a map of all the banker hubs getting connected
ready to start running a banking service or did you think that something that has
terms and conditions, charges Tx fees and interest was not a bank !!!

https://lnmainnet.gaben.win/

Don't worry they will keep fees low these bankers will whilst they try to suck people in
but this was not part of the original plan and if block-chain brought you to Bitcoin then
private off-chain ledgers should send you away.

Other coins not based on Bitcoin can scale, keep transactions on-block and the Tx fees
are next to nothing and do save the bull about LN saving fees because they were only
$0.10 a year ago and we have been treated to problem-reaction-solution and I'm not
buying it.

Topic: Bitcoin Lightning Network on Mainnet..now LIVE! (Really? See Article) (Read 266 times)