I quite often do already spend my coins, both on and off chain. I'm not really that bothered by the $0.50-$1 on chain fees. I'm used to pay way more in fees than that through PayPal for purchases. An advantage is that as long as you include a decent enough fee, the payment processors the merchants use tend to accept them without a single confirmation, which means it's an instant payment on my side.
Lightning actually settles the transaction instantly and that at a fee rate of 1-5 satoshis on average depending on the number of hops.
When it comes to spending it's important to replace every satoshi that you have spent. I know it might not be the most convenient thing to do, but it's a great way to not lose out on future gains.
Topic: Bitcoin & Lightning - Would you pay for coffee instantly if it was possible? - page 3. (Read 773 times)
July 25, 2019, 05:59:46 PM
July 25, 2019, 05:55:05 PM
Hmm right. What do you reckon is the rationale behind crypto debit cards? For example, coinbase probably wouldn't launch such a thing if there wasn't a large enough user base for it, or not?
I'm sure there are a decent amount of spenders out there. By this point there'll be a lot of people sitting on free money. Spending free money feels jolly nice.
It's not the driver or cornerstone of this whole thing though, it's a byproduct of a reasonable size. And for some it may be the only significant amount of money they have so they may have no alternative but to liquidate some.
July 25, 2019, 05:23:33 PM
I spend a fair bit of BTC. I tend to use it to buy items that'll improve my life. That way I won't be sad if the price ever reaches squillions of dollars as I got plenty of good use from whatever I bought.
Unless I had no alternative, and I do, I wouldn't spend it on consumables like food, coffee, fuel. That stuff eventually comes out of my arse, urethra or exhaust pipe never to be seen again, though it was certainly useful at the time.
The key to spending is earning in BTC. And those who bought for a lot less have earned more buying power in a sense too. If you've got it coming in then you'll be more inclined to spend it. If you've laid out your dollars in the hope of doing well, and are yet to, and underwent all that hassle to obtain it then you'll be far less willing to spend. You'll want to hoard.
A lot of attitudes and circumstances will need to change for it to see regular use as a currency. We're nowhere near it now. We may never be.
Unless I had no alternative, and I do, I wouldn't spend it on consumables like food, coffee, fuel. That stuff eventually comes out of my arse, urethra or exhaust pipe never to be seen again, though it was certainly useful at the time.
The key to spending is earning in BTC. And those who bought for a lot less have earned more buying power in a sense too. If you've got it coming in then you'll be more inclined to spend it. If you've laid out your dollars in the hope of doing well, and are yet to, and underwent all that hassle to obtain it then you'll be far less willing to spend. You'll want to hoard.
A lot of attitudes and circumstances will need to change for it to see regular use as a currency. We're nowhere near it now. We may never be.
Hmm right. What do you reckon is the rationale behind crypto debit cards? For example, coinbase probably wouldn't launch such a thing if there wasn't a large enough user base for it, or not?
July 25, 2019, 05:22:27 PM
What I'm trying to understand and defend against a lot of the mass skeptics is this exact question - Would you use bitcoin as a currency if it was possible?
.."if it was possible"... then why not? Besides, I already using it at some of the services.
But for a cup of coffee, how much the cost of it we are talking here? Is using and paying with BTC does make sense here or just pay it instead with some few bucks on our pocket which is for me way faster and convenient.
Will treat it as an alternative payment since on the other hand, I have other payment sources e.g fiat salary, credit cards. As much as possible, I will consider paying with crypto only if I'm run out of options.
July 25, 2019, 04:55:36 PM
Would you use bitcoin as a currency if it was possible?
this is one of those questions that can be answered by another question, let's suppose the person had $1000, and took that $1000 and bought bitcoin, when that person bought bitcoin with his $1000 the price was $10,000. Months later this person sees the bitcoin price being at $30,000. this person will be very profitable... will this person take some of his bitcoin to buy a coffee and if this person can pay with fiat that does not increase over the long term? I very much doubt that this person will take your bitcoin to buy coffee. But at the same time we can have a scenario where the person is a miner, so that person will have no problem taking some of their bitcoin to buy coffee
July 25, 2019, 04:53:46 PM
I don't believe spending bitcoin for small purchases will ever happen. Bitcoin is settling into SoV narrative. It's an important driver for cryptocurrency adoption. Bitcoin will be used for settling SoV type of transactions. For example, I save money to buy real estate in Bitcoin. When I have enough and decide to buy a house, I'd convert my bitcoin into real estate. It encourages HODL behavior. Bitcoin exists because it has inflation nemesis, fiat currencies. If Bitcoin ever gobbled up all of the world money, we'd be in the same dark place as inflationary fiat system. In some sense, Bitcoin is as evil as fiat.
I think the monetary system will consist 2 contradictory forces: deflationary and inflationary.
Disclaimer: I'm working on a digital inflationary crypto (https://bitflate.github.io/post/2019/04/14/bitflate-cryptocurrency-with-constant-inflation.html).
I think the monetary system will consist 2 contradictory forces: deflationary and inflationary.
Disclaimer: I'm working on a digital inflationary crypto (https://bitflate.github.io/post/2019/04/14/bitflate-cryptocurrency-with-constant-inflation.html).
July 25, 2019, 04:43:50 PM
Bitcoin was created to be a universal currency and lightning makes it possible to make completely P2P micro-transactions for a few pennies paid in fees.
Now let's assume for the sake of this poll that you could now spend your bitcoin that is under your control on your wallet, anywhere, by just tapping your bitcoin wallet (hardware or mobile) against an existing credit card machine and you are able to pay with bitcoin over lightning.
What I'm trying to understand and defend against a lot of the mass skeptics is this exact question - Would you use bitcoin as a currency if it was possible?
I believe, irrespective of the value, anybody that held bitcoin before 2017 would be in a place to spend it.
Now let's assume for the sake of this poll that you could now spend your bitcoin that is under your control on your wallet, anywhere, by just tapping your bitcoin wallet (hardware or mobile) against an existing credit card machine and you are able to pay with bitcoin over lightning.
What I'm trying to understand and defend against a lot of the mass skeptics is this exact question - Would you use bitcoin as a currency if it was possible?
I believe, irrespective of the value, anybody that held bitcoin before 2017 would be in a place to spend it.
from the moment bitcoin was out and then ethereum huge hype *SHADOW* was all over the web while all of them cannot scale to mass adaption and only experts know this from the beginning and the people behind bitcoin also said this, that there will be problem with scaling,miners, and other very important things with the chain.
lighting network dont solve the scaling problem its second layer , read about it...
top experts and anonymous people together try to slove this as fast as possible, the same problem was exist with scalling the internet in the beginning...but it sloved.
what will crash the fiat money is mass adaption and scaling, btc and ethereum hold around 7-25 max tps per second. still you can buy car or home but scaling its the key to adaption and adaption lead to surge the price of crypto and crash the fiat money.
mit for example regularly communicate with anonymous people to find a way.
the question is which protocol will solve this??
July 25, 2019, 04:38:45 PM
The problem is though, why? Unless you have a job or a stable income that pays in BTC, there is really no point to make micro-transactions using the lightning network, because you'll need to spend your fiat currency to buy BTC, and then use your purchased BTC to buy an item, when it would be easier for the vendor to accept fiat, so it's just a waste of time to go through that process (even if we are pretending there is no fee).
Bitcoin will likely never be mainstream and used to buy consumables because tap and pay is just easier and cheaper to use. BTC is probably better to be spent on items that are worth a bit, on sites like Amazon and G2a.
For crypto to be used in everyday transactions, the blockchain needs to be able to confirm transactions in seconds and also needs to have very low fees.
Bitcoin will likely never be mainstream and used to buy consumables because tap and pay is just easier and cheaper to use. BTC is probably better to be spent on items that are worth a bit, on sites like Amazon and G2a.
For crypto to be used in everyday transactions, the blockchain needs to be able to confirm transactions in seconds and also needs to have very low fees.
July 25, 2019, 04:17:09 PM
I spend a fair bit of BTC. I tend to use it to buy items that'll improve my life. That way I won't be sad if the price ever reaches squillions of dollars as I got plenty of good use from whatever I bought.
Unless I had no alternative, and I do, I wouldn't spend it on consumables like food, coffee, fuel. That stuff eventually comes out of my arse, urethra or exhaust pipe never to be seen again, though it was certainly useful at the time.
The key to spending is earning in BTC. And those who bought for a lot less have earned more buying power in a sense too. If you've got it coming in then you'll be more inclined to spend it. If you've laid out your dollars in the hope of doing well, and are yet to, and underwent all that hassle to obtain it then you'll be far less willing to spend. You'll want to hoard.
A lot of attitudes and circumstances will need to change for it to see regular use as a currency. We're nowhere near it now. We may never be.
Unless I had no alternative, and I do, I wouldn't spend it on consumables like food, coffee, fuel. That stuff eventually comes out of my arse, urethra or exhaust pipe never to be seen again, though it was certainly useful at the time.
The key to spending is earning in BTC. And those who bought for a lot less have earned more buying power in a sense too. If you've got it coming in then you'll be more inclined to spend it. If you've laid out your dollars in the hope of doing well, and are yet to, and underwent all that hassle to obtain it then you'll be far less willing to spend. You'll want to hoard.
A lot of attitudes and circumstances will need to change for it to see regular use as a currency. We're nowhere near it now. We may never be.
July 25, 2019, 04:09:41 PM
Bitcoin was created to be a universal currency and lightning makes it possible to make completely P2P micro-transactions for a few pennies paid in fees.
Now let's assume for the sake of this poll that you could now spend your bitcoin that is under your control on your wallet, anywhere, by just tapping your bitcoin wallet (hardware or mobile) against an existing credit card machine and you are able to pay with bitcoin over lightning.
What I'm trying to understand and defend against a lot of the mass skeptics is this exact question - Would you use bitcoin as a currency if it was possible?
I believe, irrespective of the value, anybody that held bitcoin before 2017 would be in a place to spend it.
Now let's assume for the sake of this poll that you could now spend your bitcoin that is under your control on your wallet, anywhere, by just tapping your bitcoin wallet (hardware or mobile) against an existing credit card machine and you are able to pay with bitcoin over lightning.
What I'm trying to understand and defend against a lot of the mass skeptics is this exact question - Would you use bitcoin as a currency if it was possible?
I believe, irrespective of the value, anybody that held bitcoin before 2017 would be in a place to spend it.
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