Bitcoin literally fixes this - page 2.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: fiulpro on February 04, 2022, 05:04:28 AM

You cannot possibly expect bitcoins to solve this issue once and for all. At the end of the day even if they start the funding campaign using Bitcoins there are still certain things that might go wrong :

1. Government will think about bitcoins as a source to overthrow their rules and regulations and make them stricter

I believe you truly do not understand what Bitcoin was designed to do. It’s no mere bank account that grows your wealth. Plus what’s the use of decentralization, POW, censorship-resistance, the inefficiency if you believe it shouldn’t be used as it SHOULD be used?

But it will not be according to me. Censorship by centralized services will force people to censorship-resistant alternatives like Bitcoin.

Quote

2. Most wallets require KYC and are also related to your bank accounts so they can get frozen up as well.

That’s a problem, but not an unsolvable problem. How does everyone convert their coins to fiat? How do some thieves convert their stolen coins to fiat?

Obito

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I don't trust crowdfunding, most of the money that's donated in those platforms aren't going to go to the causes and crowdfunding websites are full of scammers wanting a quick buck so I have lost my faith in it a long time ago. The only problem with them using bitcoin as a donation is that the people that they're going to pay with it might not accept it but you're right that bitcoin can easily fix this problem.

fiulpro

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You cannot possibly expect bitcoins to solve this issue once and for all. At the end of the day even if they start the funding campaign using Bitcoins there are still certain things that might go wrong :
1. Government will think about bitcoins as a source to overthrow their rules and regulations and make them stricter
2. Most wallets require KYC and are also related to your bank accounts so they can get frozen up as well.

At the same time there are other things as well :
If it's a good idea to do this protest or no. What's more important ? The pandemic going for another 1000 years or what ?

Then come the moral and ethical dilemma of using a neutral currency for a state like Canada, might end up bad as well.

Bitcoins definately fixes some of the problem but is it really a good idea to use it here ?

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: pooya87 on February 04, 2022, 01:19:54 AM

Bitcoin fixes part of the problem not all of it, it removes the need for third parties and prevents them from putting their hands in your pocket easily and without your permission, otherwise it doesn't eliminate the fact that these centralized authorities can still force anyone to answer to them and they can even force them to give up all the funds they received by intimidation, etc.

Are you suggesting that the Canadian government will use intimidation to force a group of truckers to give up the keys from a donation wallet? I believe that would be a first.

Plus don’t Bitcoin mixers/tumblers, CoinJoin, and multisig literally fix that problem too?

TheNineClub

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I don't know if there is a crypto service like GoFundMe, specifically designed for that purpose, but if there isn't, there should be. But then again, GoFundMe is not the only option in situations like this, hell, there is no reason to even go with the third-party route when the truckers themselves could have established a donation website / designated place where they control what goes on with the funds as a collective. Adding BTC to the mix doesn't really make things easier, and crypto really is not a fix as it comes with it's own set of issues, it's just an alternative in a lot of situations. What it's not, nor it it will ever be is a be all end all solution to everything that has been plaguing our society.

pooya87

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Bitcoin fixes part of the problem not all of it, it removes the need for third parties and prevents them from putting their hands in your pocket easily and without your permission, otherwise it doesn't eliminate the fact that these centralized authorities can still force anyone to answer to them and they can even force them to give up all the funds they received by intimidation, etc.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: ABCbits on February 03, 2022, 07:27:20 AM

I don't disagree with your statement, but it's like comparing apples with oranges. Bitcoin is cryptocurrency while GoFundMe is crowdfunding platform. They could suffer from similar fate as long as they rely on centralized service (e.g. BitPay).

Who’s comparing apples and oranges? Bitcoin can literally fix their problem without any reliance in a centralized third party. Let’s compare apples to apples, Bitcoin fixed Heroine dealers’ problem by giving them a medium of exchange to use without fear of censorship.

bittraffic

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Because Trucker Joe briggs BTC address is not an option I think Gofundme version for BTC would be a good project to develop for unstoppable funding like this. The funds would help theb group to organize what they would do next but they are shutdown by Gofundme itself.

Too bad no one can be trusted anymore even the platform thats suppose.to be independent.

Husires

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The example above is not good for inferring the importance of decentralization in our lives. You can find better examples that do not include exposing people to danger directly or indirectly.
GoFundMe website is central and they have terms of use. When you exceed these conditions, the funding will be frozen or even stopped, and therefore the funds will be frozen.

Liberty has much better examples to discuss.

franky1

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it may stop the funding site from 'freezing' a payout by not requiring a funding site to collect payment, when just displaying a random persons bitcoin address

but if an organisation chose Trucker Joe Briggs to present his personal bitcoin address.. joe briggs can also decide he wont pay out, and instead retire to cuba with a lifetimes worth of money.

usually organisations want other publicly liable organisations to be custodians. to ensure no one just runs off with funds
this then requires public disclosure of the person accepting donations. by which authorities can then still make a request on that person to not pay out until authorities have investigated the funds.

yes people can just present their personal payment details to each other. but that requires trusting them.
its why gofundme works because they have policies to ensure the payout is genuinely used for its advertised purpose. far more than just trusting some random person.

so its no different than accepting fiat or bitcoin. in many ways. yea someone can reveal their fiat debit card and ask people to 'top-up' their debit card. or they can use an organisation that vets charities.. bitcoin however does not have a good vetting system

so pro's and cons on both sides

mk4

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Definitely not literally fixing it, but it's a viable loophole solution. It's going to be smart for them to try to raise funds through BTC though, because as far as I know, there's a good overlap between bitcoiners and people who are really against the vaccine mandates and lockdowns.

NeuroticFish

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I've seen people raising funds by simply posting their bank details to get money sent there. That's already not Bitcoin. I know that the bank can also do nasty things, but I think that you understand my point.

On the other hand, a Bitcoin platform similar to GoFundMe may use a custodial wallet for collecting the funds and have the power to review/seize those funds. (Of course, also an address can be posted for collecting donations.)

So "bitcoin literally fixes this" is pretty much incorrect also in my opinion.

ABCbits

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I don't disagree with your statement, but it's like comparing apples with oranges. Bitcoin is cryptocurrency while GoFundMe is crowdfunding platform. They could suffer from similar fate as long as they rely on centralized service (e.g. BitPay).

Wind_FURY

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Quote

At $10 million, GoFundMe has placed the Freedom Convoy 2020 campaign "under review to ensure it complies with our terms of service and applicable laws and regulations", after mounting pressure to stop the campaign from Canadian media and the city of Ottawa.

https://twitter.com/themarieoakes/status/1489032258136723461

Canadian truckers are protesting the vaccine mandate. There are supporters, and people who are against the protests, that’s another debate. But GoFundMe is currently “reviewing” the fund raising campaign to possibly censor it later. If only there was a censorship-resistant currency that Canadians can use for that fund raising campaign. Cool

Topic: Bitcoin literally fixes this - page 2. (Read 407 times)