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Topic: Bitcoin maleabity attack - who made it and is it still running? (Read 3862 times)

vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
I thought he was just a Lithuanian bumpkin who happened to see "Visit Bitcoin" (written in mother tongue) advertised on a roof of a barn next to a major thoroughfare while on his way to the annual Kugelis Fest.
1) I have never been in Lithuania
2) What is "Visit Bitcoin"?



The phrase was inspired by ...



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_City

Quote
Rock City is on Lookout Mountain in Lookout Mountain, Georgia, located near Ruby Falls. It is well known for the many barn advertisements throughout the Southeast and Midwest United States that have the slogan "See Rock City" painted on roofs and sides. Clark Byers painted over 900 barn roofs in nineteen states for Rock City from 1935 to 1969.

legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1164
Are we still under attack?  I have a transaction that is unconfirmed for over 2 hours .  Miners fee is 0.00014659.

No.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Well the information you wanna i dont know sometimes the transfers takes a bit more then usual even without attacks, sometime ago i had waited 3 hours to my transaction get confirmed (3 confirmations) and the other time tooked less then 30 minutes soo just wait it will credit soon,the transaction is instant but most places ask for the confirmations before credit anything.
full member
Activity: 167
Merit: 100
Are we still under attack?  I have a transaction that is unconfirmed for over 2 hours .  Miners fee is 0.00014659.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 502
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
For free we give smiles and friendship some try to take advantage of it,at bitcoin world there is someone hidden trying to take advantage of the hall that bitcoin has and the team should know about it but not focus into block it or reforece the system protection but well it needs to close halls to be able to grow.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1019
I thought he was just a Lithuanian bumpkin who happened to see "Visit Bitcoin" (written in mother tongue) advertised on a roof of a barn next to a major thoroughfare while on his way to the annual Kugelis Fest.
1) I have never been in Lithuania
2) What is "Visit Bitcoin"?

member
Activity: 66
Merit: 10
I disagree with how he expressed his opinion (doing an attack) about the whole Bitcoin getting centralized but I do agree to some extent that he is right, maybe right now it's not the case but in future the bigger pools will completely take control of the mining operation and then they'll make their own rules and that will again result in a non trustworthy blockchain and maybe these stress test are done by them to increase the miner's fee. I don't think this is how Satoshi envisioned the mining to be, I think it was meant to be completely decentralized and people mining from different parts of the world and not just from few mining farms.

It would have been better if mining would be non-profit in any other any way than just the sheer joy of running your own decentralised mining rig in your basement, as a hobby and as a means to keep the blockchain alive. You could make it break even, so no profit, but no loss, but it is still the market at work here.


I think most things would be better off as non-profit but money makes the world go round not altruism. It really wouldn't be feasible for people to mine for free currently just as it wouldn't be feasible for all doctors and fire fighters around the world to work for free as great as that would be. People need money at the end of the day and most people cant afford to work for free.
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
I find it strange that all these technical loopholes have been found recently, and not a lot before that. I wonder how all of this fits into the Bitcoin Core vs Bitcoin XT debate.

It's pure speculation, but things has gone crazy, since this whole split has happened. The person doing this malleability attack has a lot of technical information of the inner

workings of Bitcoin, so it's probably a engineer or a developer?  

Check the user that I've just linked to here and also read the whole thread that I've just linked. The user claims that he doesn't use bitcoins and as I see it, is a pro-bankster. Cool, right? He seems to have a lot of knowledge regarding that certain attack vector on bitcoin.

I thought he was just a Lithuanian bumpkin who happened to see "Visit Bitcoin" (written in mother tongue) advertised on a roof of a barn next to a major thoroughfare while on his way to the annual Kugelis Fest.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
The mining happened because people saw that they could mine and make some money otherwise bitcoin and crypto world would happen,sure bitcoin must keep developing and raising their security and cleaning any hall anywher to avoid any kind of attack.On the begining they just tested the concept of mining and made some deals till it grow .
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1019
But what is the incentive to mine?
It would be reasonable to doublespend by reorganizing the blockchain.
member
Activity: 254
Merit: 10
Streamies Rocks!!!!
I disagree with how he expressed his opinion (doing an attack) about the whole Bitcoin getting centralized but I do agree to some extent that he is right, maybe right now it's not the case but in future the bigger pools will completely take control of the mining operation and then they'll make their own rules and that will again result in a non trustworthy blockchain and maybe these stress test are done by them to increase the miner's fee. I don't think this is how Satoshi envisioned the mining to be, I think it was meant to be completely decentralized and people mining from different parts of the world and not just from few mining farms.

It would have been better if mining would be non-profit in any other any way than just the sheer joy of running your own decentralised mining rig in your basement, as a hobby and as a means to keep the blockchain alive. You could make it break even, so no profit, but no loss, but it is still the market at work here.
The incentive is money, and that is one that feeds greed, greed is a very mighty thing and hard to control. We always want more, eat all the cake till nothing is left and then franticly search for the last crumbs...

Mining without profit would increase the decentralisation, because it would only interest those who want to invest without any earthly rewards other than recognition and being part of it. But where do you put the coins? How to distribute those? It is stil about the blockchain and the coins. To distribute them evenly around to all wallets available? That would make running the most wallets profitable and take the whole thing askew again.

Trying to manipulate the bitcoin value to keep it non-profitable for miners, but how?

It wouldn't work.

There was an altcoin with a dev who thought people would mine his coin for no reward whatsoever, apart from knowing they were keeping the network alive. It didn't work out. A few people mined it to begin with, but soon there were only a few hours a day when anyone was mining, and it became difficult to send coins to another wallet. Then the network was attacked, and the dev had to do a coin swap to a wallet with a different system that rewarded miners.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
I can draw your avatar!

Dat!

It is the profit that is centralising the mining towards pools and mega mining rigs. Thus undermining the decentralised nature of the blockchain.

But what is the incentive to mine?
Where does the value of the bitcoin come from if it is not from profit?

It is a flaw(or asset) in human nature to be greedy, so how could we overcome this problem to keep the blockchain decentralised?
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1019
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
I can draw your avatar!
I disagree with how he expressed his opinion (doing an attack) about the whole Bitcoin getting centralized but I do agree to some extent that he is right, maybe right now it's not the case but in future the bigger pools will completely take control of the mining operation and then they'll make their own rules and that will again result in a non trustworthy blockchain and maybe these stress test are done by them to increase the miner's fee. I don't think this is how Satoshi envisioned the mining to be, I think it was meant to be completely decentralized and people mining from different parts of the world and not just from few mining farms.

It would have been better if mining would be non-profit in any other any way than just the sheer joy of running your own decentralised mining rig in your basement, as a hobby and as a means to keep the blockchain alive. You could make it break even, so no profit, but no loss, but it is still the market at work here.
The incentive is money, and that is one that feeds greed, greed is a very mighty thing and hard to control. We always want more, eat all the cake till nothing is left and then franticly search for the last crumbs...

Mining without profit would increase the decentralisation, because it would only interest those who want to invest without any earthly rewards other than recognition and being part of it. But where do you put the coins? How to distribute those? It is stil about the blockchain and the coins. To distribute them evenly around to all wallets available? That would make running the most wallets profitable and take the whole thing askew again.

Trying to manipulate the bitcoin value to keep it non-profitable for miners, but how?
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
Please explain (or reference an explanation) as to why malleability features would be quite useful.
For example, anyonecanpay sighash flag allows arbitrary parties to add funds to a transaction. It's what makes lighthouse possible, but every time someone updates the transaction the txid changes.

Do you say that this attack pattern became possible because of changes that were implemented into bitcoin to make the lightning network possible?

lighthouse

Thanks for the correction...
Pab
legendary
Activity: 1862
Merit: 1012
 Explanation you can find in link below,looks like it is kind of hobby for guys who are doing that or mission of his life

http://webonanza.com/2015/10/08/no-you-did-not-break-bitcoin-today/
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
Please explain (or reference an explanation) as to why malleability features would be quite useful.
For example, anyonecanpay sighash flag allows arbitrary parties to add funds to a transaction. It's what makes lighthouse possible, but every time someone updates the transaction the txid changes.

Do you say that this attack pattern became possible because of changes that were implemented into bitcoin to make the lightning network possible?

lighthouse
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
you are right, seems BTC is loosing decentralization
but that just means... nothing can be decentralised for real

Only primitive organisms. Worms for example.
Ants have primitive centralization. They can build an anthill.
People can work in fully centralized community. They are launching rockets to Mars.

BTC lost  its decentralization when some smart guy decided to mine on his video card and another clever guy organized a pool.


The development of bitcoin was never decentralised, looking at it from a wider angle, the blockchain itself is a centralised system(the blockchain) on which we entrust the bitcoin economy. The meaning of decentralisation is that there is not a single entity but the blockchain itself, until there is someone who can make and overtake a mining rig so powerfull it will mine all the remaining blocks and will not share the technology.

This will however result in a non trustworthy blockchain and the whole thing crumbles before the one investing so hard to gain control will have the biggest loss. "Now you're king of the mountain, but it's all garbage!"

I disagree with how he expressed his opinion (doing an attack) about the whole Bitcoin getting centralized but I do agree to some extent that he is right, maybe right now it's not the case but in future the bigger pools will completely take control of the mining operation and then they'll make their own rules and that will again result in a non trustworthy blockchain and maybe these stress test are done by them to increase the miner's fee. I don't think this is how Satoshi envisioned the mining to be, I think it was meant to be completely decentralized and people mining from different parts of the world and not just from few mining farms.

You mean the big mining companies. The pools that exist are practically only big companies that allow some small miners to take part. But they control the majority of the hashrate anyway.

And yes, they have all the might. Which sounds pretty bad. Some years ago we had a lot of private miners. That is not the case anymore.

Surprisingly satoshi foresaw that. I wonder why he did not see a problem in that. Decentralization is something different of a miner corporation, which we will see for sure.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
Please explain (or reference an explanation) as to why malleability features would be quite useful.
For example, anyonecanpay sighash flag allows arbitrary parties to add funds to a transaction. It's what makes lighthouse possible, but every time someone updates the transaction the txid changes.

Do you say that this attack pattern became possible because of changes that were implemented into bitcoin to make the lightning network possible?
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