Topic: Bitcoin miners energy usage has exceeded 50%, where is Elon? (Read 498 times)

Correct hehehe. I replied with Elon's picture to express this, however, I am not quite certain why it was deleted by a moderator. Someone reported it, I reckon. Moderators much of the time are not very strict in the forum.

Also, this picture is very annoying which makes this also very funny hehehehe.



In any case, the hate on cousin Elon's appears to have started after his guest appearance on Saturday Night Live. If anyone has seen it, he clearly made it appear that our community is only made up of nerdy cryptobros and moonbois.

I see no harm in getting people reminded that Elon is full of shit and that he is an opportunist who doesn't care about bitcoin but for some reason you get triggered every time someone mentions him.


We certainly don't and that's one of the things that annoys me aroiund here, mods rarely (if ever) merging duplicate threads.

Anyone can open a topic about anything, including the OP about his great idol who did so much damage to Bitcoin with his senseless decisions, but the fact is that such discussions lead nowhere because we are talking about a man whose word is not something to be trusted and that is proved countless times.

In addition, do we have to have one topic in each board about whether Mr. Mars will change his mind or OP could learn one of our local sayings that says "promise makes a fool happy".

Will Elon Musk keep what he said or not?

If he truly gonna change his mind after this event, I can say that he is really a man of his word and people shouldn't bash him for sharing some opinions regarding cryptocurrencies and economics in general because he is just sharing based on his experiences. But if he once again makes some invalid reasons, then we can say that this guy doesn't seem to deserve to earn our trust because what he is doing is just mind manipulation and all he thinks is the advantage of his company and investment, he doesn't deserve to advise people based on his personal propaganda.

But given the context, it's not about "changing payment methods", nor is it about "the increasing ease of buying Bitcoin today". It's about efficiency. Why would I, a fiat earner, buy Bitcoin merely to use it to purchase a car? I could buy the car using my fiat directly. Why the few extra steps unless I'm incentivized to do them, like perhaps a 30% discount on the car if I use Bitcoin?

A case when a person has no choice but to use Bitcoin is if his/her computer is compromised by ransomware which requires payment in Bitcoin. Or if a Heroine addict can't get Heroine anywhere except the Dark Markets, would be another good illustration of payment in Bitcoin. Another case would be if someone doesn't have a credit card, but he/she wants to gamble in an internet casino. But Tesla, or an iPhone, or another common item that can be purchased for fiat, those markets are very efficient that there's no need to use Bitcoin.

or probably Elon will then say that when it is 90% then he will buy.

We all know Elon and he is kind of unpredictable. Maybe he said that but he didn't mean it or let's say he just forgot about it and was not able to read the news about Bitcoin. Whatever it is let's just wait a couple of months or years to see if Elon will see that news because he is a busy person and for sure he has no time for this information unless someone tells him otherwise. We know that he has bigger projects outside of cryptocurrency so let's just wait and see if he will really buy.

Musk is sending satellites into space all the time because his Starlinks are getting destroyed. I've read that he's lost more than 200 of them already. How long is this going to last?
I say sending electronics up to burn in the atmosphere is stupid, just like sending cars into space.

Making fake "green" cars that use power cells made in China that cannot be recycled is also stupid. Musk acts like he's so good for environment. Were those Teslas that caught fire and burned good for air, Mr Musk?

Musk isn't going to endorse bitcoin, unless he sees a way to promote himself and his company in this.

Why do we even endorse the opinion of a person who sent a car in space just for fun, and who was deliberately trying to convince people to buying a dog coin? As if he's the good paradigm. He accepted bitcoin for Tesla and something miraculous happened. Who gives a shit.

But then, yeah. We remind ourselves that the overwhelming majority is into it for the sweet profit, so Elon's opinion is important.  

Of course the ideal situation is when you also earn Bitcoins, e.g. if your salary is partly paid in BTC, and/or if you are a service provider accepting BTC. Then the "Bitcoin circulation" aspect would come naturally: You could spend a part of the Bitcoins in things like a Tesla car, and you'll get them back (albeit getting back what you paid for a car it may be quite slow, but Tesla cars aren't directed at the lower middle class). I'm aware that this isn't the norm today.

Another case: Particularly in market situations when you have already made some profit with your BTC, it makes sense to spend part of them if you can satisfy a necessity, like a car. I think particularly producers of high-priced goods like cars can direct their efforts to that public: early adopters or those who are "in" at least since the bottom of the last bear market. You'll not always have (in addition to the BTC) the fiat to spend it on such a good, and in this case it may make sense to simply spend the BTC, and if you like to buy back some BTC, then you can do it.

I don't think "changing between payment methods" is that much of a hassle. People do it all the time, transferring between different bank accounts, using ATMs, etc, so re-buying BTC if you have a good exchange partner isn't much of a problem. And again: if you're a Bitcoin bull, strengthening the currency ecosystem is adding value to BTC, so why not simply do it? You can even get social prestige (e.g. posting your Tesla you bought directly with BTC on Twitter, pardon X).

And there is another aspect: Buying BTC has become increasily easier than selling them, due to AML/KYC regulations (proof of source for BTC you received, etc.). So if you have some BTC from old investments in ICOs or altcoin trading for example, which are difficult to track because the exchanges where you traded don't exist anymore, then a purchase of a good may be a good way to spend them. That may be not the case with cars as car sales are regulated in many countries, but with other goods it isn't a bad idea. The re-bought BTC instead can be tracked well and it will be much easier to provide a proof of source for them.

As you said, Elon will probably ask for a lot of data and have it checked. There are some names or institutions that will ensure movement in times when the market is so stagnant. I think Elon is one of these names. That's why such names are always needed in the crypto market.

Elon will not have as big an impact on crypto as before, but I still believe he will be an important figure for crypto.

I think Musk is likely to question the data and ask for a thorough review or something before jumping into Bitcoin again. To be fair, while I want to believe more than 50% of mining is eco-friendly, I'm not sure if I do. It's great if this is the tendency, but t's unclear from the article what sort of data was cited, where it came from, how accurate it might be etc.
In any case, I think Musk has lost much of its influence after all the atrocities he did to Twitter, so I don't think his opinion would have as big an impact on the price as it used to.

People are spending their bitcoins on all kinds of stupid things (e.g. ordinals) so make no mistake, there would be those interested in spending some on Tesla too. Hell, when I imagine an average crypto millionaire, I have a picture of a douchebag driving Tesla in my head.


This summer I financed a long and very active vacation that lasted a month strictly via bitcoin. So yeah, people are willing to spend bitcoin on all sorts of things.


I might missunderstood OP, but I think this topic is more about calling out (and making fun of) Elon than begging him to accept bitcoin as he promised.

But that would be inefficient. Why re-buy the "wasted Bitcoins"? Why not merely use the fiat to directly buy the car instead of using your Bitcoin, then replacing the Bitcoin? That's why it doesn't make sense that users do "Fiat -> Bitcoin -> Purchase" unless you absolutely have no choice but to use Bitcoin, or if you truly earned the Bitcoin you spend, like Laszlo.

This forum is becoming some kind of fun club of Mr. Mars, and it seems to me that some people have his picture above their bed and pray to him every night to post some tweet and say that he loves Bitcoin again. It all looks so pathetic that one wonders if we have sunk so low that we are calling on various rich people to save Bitcoin because without them it will die 499 times in the last 14 years.

Will people ever understand that there was never even a question about where the energy comes from, that is, how green or dirty it is - and even if we could prove without any doubt that Bitcoin uses 100% energy from renewable sources, that would not change anything in the minds of those who have some completely different goals and don't care at all about something like Bitcoin.

Why not, my holiday is over, and I'm looking at 8-hour flight back home in the evening so I have all the rights to be so, right?

The thing is I don't like disinformation.
I don't care if it's from the guys I like I hate it, if somebody can't find real arguments and data and has to resort to this kind of bs, then sorry, call me a hater but I won't applaud knowing I'm a lied in my face and shut up just because it's good for the price of my investment.
When I know Mara is managing 2cents/kwh because it has bought an entire coal plant, when Riot is buying half of the entire generation from a gas powerplant, when Stronghold is burning coal residue and tyers at its newly acquired powerplant while no f*** large farm is running entirely on solar or wind then don't come with this kind of greenwashing at me.

This is the same bs as Google being carbon neutral because...it pays for carbon credits. Lol!


Why not?

Nothing is wasted for nothing if Bitcoin network becomes bigger and stronger with time.

The Pizza of bitcoins trade of laszlo is only part of Bitcoin history but it is important to help Bitcoin gaining noise and attention in early years. It helpfully contributed to Bitcoin survival and with time, laszlo's trade and other traders, initiatives in community combined together to make Lindy effect bigger. The effect is know with gold and now we are witnesses for it with Bitcoin. The effect is mentioned in The bullish case for Bitcoin that should be one of bedside books for Bitcoiners.

I'd liked the article linked in the OP to be referenced with more data. However it mentions Daniel Batten, who conducted the Beest study from February which comes to similar conclusions (52%, considering renewable + nuclear) and is not based on Bitcoin Mining Council data but simply enriches the CCAF study with some independent research.

Generally however I don't think there's much to doubt about the general order of magnitude of the numbers. In the worst case we'd be talking about a few percentage points, but the 37% CCAF reported is very likely outdated.

HODLers can instantly re-buy the "wasted" Bitcoins. Or maybe they want to take some profits with less KYC hassle involved. They can re-buy partially then. In any case, they're strengthening Bitcoin's "use as a currency" ecosystem and make Bitcoin's value proposition stronger, which could benefit them in the long term.

Think about Laszlo in 2010. He "wasted" lots of BTC but strengthened the ecosystem, and I'm sure he got the 10.000 BTC back very fast (via mining, etc.).

 

It's not 2012 anymore when people were so idealistic and never thought Bitcoin would hold actual value of more than $20,000 per coin. Why would any HODLer waste their Bitcoin on a car that would merely start to depreciate in value right after it goes out of the factory? Tesla might probably convince HODLers if the company gave a 50% discount for all car purchases through Bitcoin, but to offer the same deal as fiat, DEFINITELY NOT. My Bitcoins are more valuable than any car for sale.

Musk never cared about bitcoin or its energy consumption or the environment for that matter. All he cared and still cares about is more power and more money. He started making positive statements about bitcoin because he thought he could influence the market and make a profit, and similarly he reversed his position and started spreading FUD because he again thought he could influence the market and make profit. Same as his involvement with shitcoins such as Dogecoin.

Besides, I don't even think people would even use the bitcoin payment option even if they wanted to buy Teslas
Bitcoin is much too valuable to exchange for a car. It's not like they are cheap either, you'd have to pay 2-5 bitcoins!

Elon Musk was used in this discussion because he promised that his firm would start accepting Bitcoin if mining becomes environmentally friendly. The OP quoted a research that has proved that miners are diversifying to more green energy making mining less harsh to the environment. So the discussion now is will Elon fulfill his word to start accepting Bitcoin?


Elon Muak is not a man that keeps his word,  I support that the community shouldn't take his word seriously. He publicly said he would never sell his coin but he did. He promised to step down as CEO of Twitter if a poll result suggested that but he failed to keep his word. Any investor who is focused on manipulating the market because of profit-making is not needed in the Bitcoin ecosystem.