Bitcoin mixer Bitwhisk.io seized by the FBI

leea-1334

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Quote from: Naficopa on October 25, 2021, 04:25:07 PM

Quote from: leea-1334 on October 22, 2021, 06:24:01 AM

So the casino itself is not illegal,,, but knowingly allowing criminals to wash money there is.

Mixing has to stay ahead of enforcement and this encourages even more advanced mixing.

However, casinos have legal regulations that they have to follow and thus can function. For governments, not knowing who is using the mixer because they have no control over it is already a money-laundering suspicion. It doesn't have to be a criminal, but they just need to know who it is and this can be an excuse to close the mixers. Possibly, they will create similar legal regulations as casinos have and then mixers continue to work.

Then the government has to regulate mixers,,, and make it the law to do so. If they want, they can try. You have to prove a crime first before you can call it a crime. We all know the state can make up any excuse it wishes to do what it wants.

On the pretext of protecting people. But taking away our right to privacy is the most sinister crime governments are not held responsible for.

Naficopa

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Quote from: leea-1334 on October 22, 2021, 06:24:01 AM

Quote from: stomachgrowls on October 21, 2021, 05:22:30 PM

Quote from: leea-1334 on October 21, 2021, 02:03:19 AM

Mixers are even more strange because they itself are not criminal acts.

Are not criminal acts? Thats not how government been looking or does have impression about mixers thats why we've seen some mixers/tumblers had been seized because they do really strongly
believe that criminal funds or something like that do really goes first on this place which means they are part of the crime which is wrong or isnt correct.

There would be always that good and bad side but overall it is just the users or the community are the ones who had been really taking advantage its bad side.

This mixer hunting would really continue on future years to come because government wouldnt definitely stop.

Yes,,, I do not think mixing is a criminal act in itself right? They look at mixers not because mixing is a crime but because criminals use mixers. Dealing with criminals is the crime. It is like in a casino,,, they have to do extra money laundering steps because the goverment believe criminals use casinos to wash their dirty money.

So the casino itself is not illegal,,, but knowingly allowing criminals to wash money there is.

Mixing has to stay ahead of enforcement and this encourages even more advanced mixing.

However, casinos have legal regulations that they have to follow and thus can function. For governments, not knowing who is using the mixer because they have no control over it is already a money-laundering suspicion. It doesn't have to be a criminal, but they just need to know who it is and this can be an excuse to close the mixers. Possibly, they will create similar legal regulations as casinos have and then mixers continue to work.

leea-1334

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Quote from: stomachgrowls on October 21, 2021, 05:22:30 PM

Quote from: leea-1334 on October 21, 2021, 02:03:19 AM

Mixers are even more strange because they itself are not criminal acts.

Are not criminal acts? Thats not how government been looking or does have impression about mixers thats why we've seen some mixers/tumblers had been seized because they do really strongly
believe that criminal funds or something like that do really goes first on this place which means they are part of the crime which is wrong or isnt correct.

There would be always that good and bad side but overall it is just the users or the community are the ones who had been really taking advantage its bad side.

This mixer hunting would really continue on future years to come because government wouldnt definitely stop.

Yes,,, I do not think mixing is a criminal act in itself right? They look at mixers not because mixing is a crime but because criminals use mixers. Dealing with criminals is the crime. It is like in a casino,,, they have to do extra money laundering steps because the goverment believe criminals use casinos to wash their dirty money.

So the casino itself is not illegal,,, but knowingly allowing criminals to wash money there is.

Mixing has to stay ahead of enforcement and this encourages even more advanced mixing.

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: leea-1334 on October 21, 2021, 02:03:19 AM

Quote from: stomachgrowls on October 20, 2021, 04:23:46 PM

Quote from: leea-1334 on October 18, 2021, 01:51:30 AM

But I always feel like the enforcement seem to think too short term and announcing such things lengthens the work they need o do later on.

There's nothing we can do if they do prefer that way.For me it doesnt matter whether this one is fake or showoff or real but still these kind of seizing is very common.FBI or regulatory bodies could

really make out such decision on everything which doesnt abide with the law or totally against with the basic principle.They would really make out corresponding actions or move

if they seem that it is really having violation or being a threat or something connects or correlated to that.

I always believe that in general,,, enforcement works well and does what it is supposed to do to protect people,,, but over the years after reading and seeing stuff even in my own country, I now believe that enforcement is sometimes doing only what their salary-payer tells them to do.

Sometimes arrests are arranged, because if we talk about law-abiding, they do not need to look at crypto. Fiat dealing crooks are plentiful in the sea

Mixers are even more strange because they itself are not criminal acts.

Are not criminal acts? Thats not how government been looking or does have impression about mixers thats why we've seen some mixers/tumblers had been seized because they do really strongly
believe that criminal funds or something like that do really goes first on this place which means they are part of the crime which is wrong or isnt correct.

There would be always that good and bad side but overall it is just the users or the community are the ones who had been really taking advantage its bad side.

This mixer hunting would really continue on future years to come because government wouldnt definitely stop.

Quickseller

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Quote from: shield132 on October 19, 2021, 07:01:45 PM

Quote from: Quickseller on October 18, 2021, 08:49:31 PM

Quote from: shield132 on October 18, 2021, 07:07:15 PM

Quote from: TryNinja on October 14, 2021, 04:33:27 PM

Could be fake. The one on BestMixer was just a plain image: https://archive.is/sBZZy

Bitwhisk's "seized" page has an animated background and actual HTML text. Maybe the FBI hired a new web developer?

There is a plain image on weleakinfo.com so...

Am I the only one who thinks that the text "You are not anonymous" wouldn't be written by FBI and the website in reality isn't seized?

The you are not anonymous tag line was displayed on the BestMixer website when their domain was seized. I don’t think this specifically is an indication that the site was not seized. However, my previous post does make the argument that this is an exit scam.

Really? I think that kind of message done via that way seems a little unethical for FBI. I really couldn't expect that they did something like that because that message looks like a threat against that website users. Idk, that's just my idea, such a message from them looks childish.

You might argue such a message is childish, but I think the purpose of the message on the BestMixer domain was to make criminals think twice before attempting to mix their bitcoin.

Quote from: shield132 on October 18, 2021, 07:07:15 PM

Yeah, I saw the previous post but at the same time there isn't a press release written on each domain that becomes seized. Usually only the famous domains are mentioned, idk if BitWhisk was belonging to that group (I knew that mixer but what was their traffic and mixing volume).

I still think (like you) that it's an exit scam and this Seize banner was made just to make it scam less scammy.

The FBI does not necessarily need to issue a press release, however they do need to initiate some form of litigation against the owner of the domain. The US government needs to either initiate a criminal complaint or a civil forfeiture case. They can't just take the domain and not allow a process for the owner to challenge the seizure.

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Quote from: stomachgrowls on October 20, 2021, 04:23:46 PM

Quote from: leea-1334 on October 18, 2021, 01:51:30 AM

But I always feel like the enforcement seem to think too short term and announcing such things lengthens the work they need o do later on.

There's nothing we can do if they do prefer that way.For me it doesnt matter whether this one is fake or showoff or real but still these kind of seizing is very common.FBI or regulatory bodies could

really make out such decision on everything which doesnt abide with the law or totally against with the basic principle.They would really make out corresponding actions or move

if they seem that it is really having violation or being a threat or something connects or correlated to that.

I always believe that in general,,, enforcement works well and does what it is supposed to do to protect people,,, but over the years after reading and seeing stuff even in my own country, I now believe that enforcement is sometimes doing only what their salary-payer tells them to do.

Sometimes arrests are arranged, because if we talk about law-abiding, they do not need to look at crypto. Fiat dealing crooks are plentiful in the sea

Mixers are even more strange because they itself are not criminal acts.

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: leea-1334 on October 18, 2021, 01:51:30 AM

Quote from: LeGaulois on October 15, 2021, 03:44:56 PM

@leea

When they make an announcement, it's too late. They have already everything they need including the servers and its data (that's mean customers IPs and much more)

When Bestmixer has been seized in 2019, they started to investigate 1 year before. In fact, it started 1 month after the launch of the mixer. So we can say since the begining. They collected 1 year of email support, BTC addresses, IPs, transaction details,...
I remember months later they arrested a guy with a ton of cash, BTC wallets, luxury watches, and IICRC gold

Yes,,, I see now. So they already did everything they needed to obtain the information, but still it does not make sense for them to announce the seizure if they can continue to catch and collect.

Or perhaps they only do it when they need to close the case and move on. But I always feel like the enforcement seem to think too short term and announcing such things lengthens the work they need o do later on.

There's nothing we can do if they do prefer that way.For me it doesnt matter whether this one is fake or showoff or real but still these kind of seizing is very common.FBI or regulatory bodies could

really make out such decision on everything which doesnt abide with the law or totally against with the basic principle.They would really make out corresponding actions or move

if they seem that it is really having violation or being a threat or something connects or correlated to that.

shield132

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Quote from: Quickseller on October 18, 2021, 08:49:31 PM

Quote from: shield132 on October 18, 2021, 07:07:15 PM

Quote from: TryNinja on October 14, 2021, 04:33:27 PM

Could be fake. The one on BestMixer was just a plain image: https://archive.is/sBZZy

Bitwhisk's "seized" page has an animated background and actual HTML text. Maybe the FBI hired a new web developer?

There is a plain image on weleakinfo.com so...

Am I the only one who thinks that the text "You are not anonymous" wouldn't be written by FBI and the website in reality isn't seized?

The you are not anonymous tag line was displayed on the BestMixer website when their domain was seized. I don’t think this specifically is an indication that the site was not seized. However, my previous post does make the argument that this is an exit scam.

Really? I think that kind of message done via that way seems a little unethical for FBI. I really couldn't expect that they did something like that because that message looks like a threat against that website users. Idk, that's just my idea, such a message from them looks childish.

Yeah, I saw the previous post but at the same time there isn't a press release written on each domain that becomes seized. Usually only the famous domains are mentioned, idk if BitWhisk was belonging to that group (I knew that mixer but what was their traffic and mixing volume).

I still think (like you) that it's an exit scam and this Seize banner was made just to make it scam less scammy.

Quickseller

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Quote from: shield132 on October 18, 2021, 07:07:15 PM

Quote from: TryNinja on October 14, 2021, 04:33:27 PM

Could be fake. The one on BestMixer was just a plain image: https://archive.is/sBZZy

Bitwhisk's "seized" page has an animated background and actual HTML text. Maybe the FBI hired a new web developer?

There is a plain image on weleakinfo.com so...

Am I the only one who thinks that the text "You are not anonymous" wouldn't be written by FBI and the website in reality isn't seized?

The you are not anonymous tag line was displayed on the BestMixer website when their domain was seized. I don’t think this specifically is an indication that the site was not seized. However, my previous post does make the argument that this is an exit scam.

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Quote from: shield132 on October 18, 2021, 07:07:15 PM

Quote from: TryNinja on October 14, 2021, 04:33:27 PM

Could be fake. The one on BestMixer was just a plain image: https://archive.is/sBZZy

Bitwhisk's "seized" page has an animated background and actual HTML text. Maybe the FBI hired a new web developer?

There is a plain image on weleakinfo.com so...

Am I the only one who thinks that the text "You are not anonymous" wouldn't be written by FBI and the website in reality isn't seized?
Also, almost everytime I have seen seized websites, there was always logo on the seize image. Bitwhisk is the exception in this case

In my opinion, this page does not look real either. I have seen several websites closed by various services and the picture has never looked like this. The most popular FBI image (which probably many here associate with various types of money extortion scams) is:

(Original after Silk Road sizing)

shield132

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Quote from: TryNinja on October 14, 2021, 04:33:27 PM

Could be fake. The one on BestMixer was just a plain image: https://archive.is/sBZZy

Bitwhisk's "seized" page has an animated background and actual HTML text. Maybe the FBI hired a new web developer?

There is a plain image on weleakinfo.com so...

Am I the only one who thinks that the text "You are not anonymous" wouldn't be written by FBI and the website in reality isn't seized?
Also, almost everytime I have seen seized websites, there was always logo on the seize image. Bitwhisk is the exception in this case

Quote from: LeGaulois on October 15, 2021, 03:44:56 PM

When Bestmixer has been seized in 2019, they started to investigate 1 year before. In fact, it started 1 month after the launch of the mixer. So we can say since the begining. They collected 1 year of email support, BTC addresses, IPs, transaction details,...

Curious, do they track the signature campaign managers and/or participants of bitcoin mixers too? Managers are usually the ones who are in touch with the owners...
Imagine if FBI guy works here as a sig campaign manager Cheesy

Quote from: LeGaulois on October 15, 2021, 03:44:56 PM

I remember months later they arrested a guy with a ton of cash, BTC wallets, luxury watches, and IICRC gold

Just remembered the story of Gal Vallerius who was arrested on Beards Festival.

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Unfortunately, but I think it might be true.
As far as I know, the owners of crypto mixers are not able to check who is using them, so they are at risk that their services are also used by criminals who launder money.
The police and all secret services are not interested in the fact that the owner of such a project helps them consciously or not consciously.
I am afraid that in the future all mixers will be in the hands or under the full control of secret services.

examplens

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Quote from: DaveF on October 15, 2021, 12:12:57 PM

Looking up the IP points to 2 IPs that both belong to Cloudflare.
bitwhisk.io.
172.67.135.29
bitwhisk.io.
104.21.26.9

The Whois lookup is showing as private.
So I doubt it's been seized as *usually* when that happens they drop all privacy and point the domain to government IPs / servers.
Not always but usually.

Just my view.

-Dave

for some reason (probably due to private registration) it's not possible to check DNS history for that domain, only last changes.
The last update is on 24.09.2021, what may be the reason for the change is registrar, owner or hosting changes. so there was definitely some change almost a month ago.
For example, if it is an exit scam, it's very easy to copy the "The domain name Bitwhisk.io has been seized by the Federal Bureau of Investigation..blah, blah.." page and upload it on any free hosting. even when it all goes over CloudFlare, it can seem quite realistic.

Quote

Whois Record for BitWhisk.io

Dates 829 days old
Created on 2019-07-12
Expires on 2023-07-12
Updated on 2021-09-24

LeGaulois

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Quote from: 7788bitcoin on October 18, 2021, 04:42:10 PM

Quote from: LeGaulois on October 14, 2021, 03:42:34 PM

1) Because a site is seized doesn't mean they arrested the owner.
2) If the domain name is owned by someone else, they can't seize the website/domain

Quote from: leea-1334 on October 18, 2021, 01:51:30 AM

Quote from: LeGaulois on October 15, 2021, 03:44:56 PM

They may not be able to collect more data. Either because the server doesn't store data for a lifetime and they clean every x months. Or if you mean to keep the website alive to catch more, then it's not possible otherwise they'll have to run the website for a lifetime. It means the investigation will never end, and the agency becomes the website owner. What people will say if the FBI runs a Bitcoin mixer?

7788bitcoin

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Quote from: LeGaulois on October 14, 2021, 03:42:34 PM

It could be that the FBI was after bitwhisk.io, but by the time they catch it, the domain had changed ownership. What do you think?
So finally, a scammer possibly in trouble for something he didn't do

It is highly likely that the owners of Bitwhisk abandoned the site because they knew they are being tracked and the scammer took over the site. But i cannot find any reports regarding any arrest in this case. Their domain is seized and if you get many reports of scam they usually seize the site.

Here is a thread here in scam accusation regarding the comeback Bitwhisk.io 2.0 - Don't send you coins there. A scammer is behind the comeback.

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Quote from: LeGaulois on October 15, 2021, 03:44:56 PM

@leea

When they make an announcement, it's too late. They have already everything they need including the servers and its data (that's mean customers IPs and much more)

When Bestmixer has been seized in 2019, they started to investigate 1 year before. In fact, it started 1 month after the launch of the mixer. So we can say since the begining. They collected 1 year of email support, BTC addresses, IPs, transaction details,...
I remember months later they arrested a guy with a ton of cash, BTC wallets, luxury watches, and IICRC gold

Yes,,, I see now. So they already did everything they needed to obtain the information, but still it does not make sense for them to announce the seizure if they can continue to catch and collect.

Or perhaps they only do it when they need to close the case and move on. But I always feel like the enforcement seem to think too short term and announcing such things lengthens the work they need o do later on.

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@leea

When they make an announcement, it's too late. They have already everything they need including the servers and its data (that's mean customers IPs and much more)

When Bestmixer has been seized in 2019, they started to investigate 1 year before. In fact, it started 1 month after the launch of the mixer. So we can say since the begining. They collected 1 year of email support, BTC addresses, IPs, transaction details,...
I remember months later they arrested a guy with a ton of cash, BTC wallets, luxury watches, and IICRC gold

DaveF

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Looking up the IP points to 2 IPs that both belong to Cloudflare.
bitwhisk.io.
172.67.135.29
bitwhisk.io.
104.21.26.9

The Whois lookup is showing as private.
So I doubt it's been seized as *usually* when that happens they drop all privacy and point the domain to government IPs / servers.
Not always but usually.

Just my view.

-Dave

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I am also inclined to the hypothesis that it is scam case, when seizing occurs, the decision is recorded in the Official Gazette and you can apply a request in the local or high court and therefore the process must be archived.
I don't know how the FBI or other agencies work, but there must be a an official link.

The strange thing is when seizing takes place, why not include a link to the decision or any official document to prove it is a legal seize?

leea-1334

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Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question (I feel stupid for asking) but what does the FBI have to gain by seizing a dead website and also then announcing it? Would it not be better to seize it quietly and then collect all the data of people trying to still scam from it,,, or am I missing out the big picture from all of this police work?

Topic: Bitcoin mixer Bitwhisk.io seized by the FBI (Read 394 times)